Ax vs Ask

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what is more important: that someone not "sound" ignorant by saying axe instead of ask

Or that someone not BE ignorant like the person who just posted.

Laugh all you want. But, as they say?

You never get a second chance, to make a first impression...

For someone making judging others' use of language as ignorant, your punctuation sure is interesting.

[Anonymous]

PP here

-making

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP here. It is certainly true that a person, regardless of race, might not be racist and would be less concerned about the white teacher with the Boston accent than the black teacher who says "ax." But that person would also likely be responding to a social norm in society at large that it is much more low-class to say "ax" than to say "cah" because that is something that low-income blacks say and, let's face it, people of all races are more fearful of blacks than of white Bostonians. I believe that that may be the pp's point. That one may not personally be racist but it is important to recognize that the norms that are driving this debate are based on a clear racial stratification.

I understand this, and don't disagree. But, again, "ax" isn't the equivalent of "cah". It's the equivalent of "youse guys". And the PP's histrionic accusations of racism hinge on whether one would totally accept a teacher saying "youse guys" while finding "axe" unacceptable--which is a position cut entirely from whole cloth. In other words, no one has offered it. Regardless off what sorts of racist boogeymen might be lurking in PPs imagination, I find both unacceptable in a professional educator.

As far as social stratification--which I feel is the proper framing--yes, that does play into it. Just as it's inappropriate to go to a job interview--or to come to school--dressed in cut-offs and daisy-dukes, it's also inappropriate for the educational authority figure to use such language, and rather than trying to change it, to hold it up as just an example of an alternative dialect. Many of these inner-city kids struggle with enough issues without further disadvantaging them. Some of these social norms may be marginally unfair, but by pretending that they don't exist helps no one.

17:28 again. I basically agree with your second paragraph. I don't think it's a good idea for a teacher to say "ax" but my view is that it wouldn't hurt OP's kid since OP isn't saying it at home. What I have a problem with is trying to justify the objection to "ax" over "cah" as if there is some sort of objective difference in the words or trying to assert that this isn't based ultimately on racial stratification. It doesn't make me a racist to want my kid to not say "ax" but I know that the reason it's a concern is because of how society generally views working class black people. I think it's important to be aware of that and to not fool ourselves about it. It is much more than "marginally" unfair but it is also a reality and I completely understand why an African-American parent would take her kids out of public school in order to avoid her kids picking up that language. White middle and upper income parents? I don't think they have to worry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
17:28 again. I basically agree with your second paragraph. I don't think it's a good idea for a teacher to say "ax" but my view is that it wouldn't hurt OP's kid since OP isn't saying it at home. What I have a problem with is trying to justify the objection to "ax" over "cah" as if there is some sort of objective difference in the words or trying to assert that this isn't based ultimately on racial stratification. It doesn't make me a racist to want my kid to not say "ax" but I know that the reason it's a concern is because of how society generally views working class black people. I think it's important to be aware of that and to not fool ourselves about it. It is much more than "marginally" unfair but it is also a reality and I completely understand why an African-American parent would take her kids out of public school in order to avoid her kids picking up that language. White middle and upper income parents? I don't think they have to worry.

And just why don't white parents have to worry, but you can see how AA parents would? Why the racial difference regarding proper word usage? Would it follow then that white parents would worry about "youse guys" but black parents wouldn't?

[Anonymous]

We were at a daycare that was wonderful and nurturing. 100% of staff and administrators were AA. 70% of the kids were AA. My family are white. There was a lot of ax-ing going on (and in general heavy AAVE). It didn't bother me at all. I had an AA friend at the center who was really irritated by it. She said, "I don't talk that way. I could, but I choose not to. These women are at work; they should behave and talk professionally. This is how my husband talks at home. How is my daughter going to learn to talk proper English if this is what she hears so much of the time?" I got what she was saying. I completely understand why you wouldn't want your kid at an elementary school where most teachers used ax, but if its only one teacher (especially one PreS or PreK teacher), it doesn't seem like a big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP here. It is certainly true that a person, regardless of race, might not be racist and would be less concerned about the white teacher with the Boston accent than the black teacher who says "ax." But that person would also likely be responding to a social norm in society at large that it is much more low-class to say "ax" than to say "cah" because that is something that low-income blacks say and, let's face it, people of all races are more fearful of blacks than of white Bostonians. I believe that that may be the pp's point. That one may not personally be racist but it is important to recognize that the norms that are driving this debate are based on a clear racial stratification.

I understand this, and don't disagree. But, again, "ax" isn't the equivalent of "cah". It's the equivalent of "youse guys". And the PP's histrionic accusations of racism hinge on whether one would totally accept a teacher saying "youse guys" while finding "axe" unacceptable--which is a position cut entirely from whole cloth. In other words, no one has offered it. Regardless off what sorts of racist boogeymen might be lurking in PPs imagination, I find both unacceptable in a professional educator.

As far as social stratification--which I feel is the proper framing--yes, that does play into it. Just as it's inappropriate to go to a job interview--or to come to school--dressed in cut-offs and daisy-dukes, it's also inappropriate for the educational authority figure to use such language, and rather than trying to change it, to hold it up as just an example of an alternative dialect. Many of these inner-city kids struggle with enough issues without further disadvantaging them. Some of these social norms may be marginally unfair, but by pretending that they don't exist helps no one.

17:28 again. I basically agree with your second paragraph. I don't think it's a good idea for a teacher to say "ax" but my view is that it wouldn't hurt OP's kid since OP isn't saying it at home. What I have a problem with is trying to justify the objection to "ax" over "cah" as if there is some sort of objective difference in the words or trying to assert that this isn't based ultimately on racial stratification. It doesn't make me a racist to want my kid to not say "ax" but I know that the reason it's a concern is because of how society generally views working class black people. I think it's important to be aware of that and to not fool ourselves about it. It is much more than "marginally" unfair but it is also a reality and I completely understand why an African-American parent would take her kids out of public school in order to avoid her kids picking up that language. White middle and upper income parents? I don't think they have to worry.

Thank you, PP. This is exactly how I feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what is more important: that someone not "sound" ignorant by saying axe instead of ask

Or that someone not BE ignorant like the person who just posted.

Laugh all you want. But, as they say?

You never get a second chance, to make a first impression...

For someone making judging others' use of language as ignorant, your punctuation sure is interesting.

You can snark all you want on an anonymous board, it makes absolutely no difference to anyone. I don't have to worry about the impression my language creates in the real world. If you are saying "ax", then you do. Sorry, this may not be fair, and it's obviously what some people do not want to hear, but it's true nonetheless. Say "cah" and people will think you're from Boston, say "ax" and people will think you're ignorant. That's just the way it is.

[Anonymous]

"My family are white. "
" There was a lot of ax-ing going on (and in general heavy AAVE). It didn't bother me at all."

Obviously.

[Anonymous]

Was does "cah" mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was does "cah" mean?

How "car" is pronounced in a Boston accent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder what is more important: that someone not "sound" ignorant by saying axe instead of ask

Or that someone not BE ignorant like the person who just posted.

Laugh all you want. But, as they say?

You never get a second chance, to make a first impression...

For someone making judging others' use of language as ignorant, your punctuation sure is interesting.

You can snark all you want on an anonymous board, it makes absolutely no difference to anyone. I don't have to worry about the impression my language creates in the real world. If you are saying "ax", then you do. Sorry, this may not be fair, and it's obviously what some people do not want to hear, but it's true nonetheless. Say "cah" and people will think you're from Boston, say "ax" and people will think you're ignorant. That's just the way it is.

Please read 10:12's post. You are missing the nuances of this discussion and by doing so, you are actually proving the larger point that is being made.

[Anonymous]

You can snark all you want on an anonymous board, it makes absolutely no difference to anyone. I don't have to worry about the impression my language creates in the real world. If you are saying "ax", then you do. Sorry, this may not be fair, and it's obviously what some people do not want to hear, but it's true nonetheless. Say "cah" and people will think you're from Boston, say "ax" and people will think you're ignorant. That's just the way it is.

I do not think the person who pronounces the word ask as ax is ignorant. My first initial impression of such a person is that he or she hails from the south. All of the posters on this board who automatically assume that it is only Black Americans who pronounce ask as ax have never spent anytime in Alabama or Lousiana. Not to mention Georgia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"My family are white. "
" There was a lot of ax-ing going on (and in general heavy AAVE). It didn't bother me at all."

Obviously.

Pointlessly rude. That was an obvious typo, as the rest of the post showed proper subject/verb agreement and correct punctuation.

[Anonymous]

Hmmmm . . . what would you make of someone who said, "I aksed youse guys to get in the cah." I am joking obviously!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmmmm . . . what would you make of someone who said, "I aksed youse guys to get in the cah." I am joking obviously!

You would initially think she is uneducated because of the grossly ignorant mispronunciations of "you" and "asked." Your opinion would change for the better when she redeemed herself with "cah," proving that she is not ignorant, just from Boston.