Is the obsession with private schools justified?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it odd that every “Is private school worth it?” thread focuses on college admissions outcomes. I attended public and private schools, and so has my kid, but IMO schools - esp at elementary/middle levels - are for character formation, instilling civic duty and pride, building foundations for lifelong learning. I want my kid to learn how to read, write, and think.

I found my small liberal arts private to be an amazing experience and I wanted the same kind of learning environment for my kid. I expect and want my young elementary aged kids to be reading Stuart Little and The Boxcar Children at school, not Dog Man and Junie B Jones. So for us, private is worth it. It might not be for your family, and that is ok. I know many families still in public who are very happy with their schools. I know that public systems often offer higher levels of math, which is not my priority. As long as AP Calc I and II/AP Stat are offered in high school, I think that is good enough.

It definitely is not the case that private schools don't offer the highest levels of math. We aren't in DC but kids at our school can puruse math classes at a local T10 college if they manage to get past the two levels of post BC Calc offered.

[Anonymous]

I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

I’ve had similar experiences working in a very well regarded public K-2 while sending my own child to the parochial. Virtually all the parochial school kids are Catholic so we got some weird looks from neighbors sending our child to Catholic. What they didn’t know is what I saw in the public school daily:

-a class getting routinely evacuated for an emotionally disturbed kid

-same kid running the halls and sometimes shutting things down because he also tried to run outside (and school is at a busy intersection)

-kids routinely cursing at teachers and other adults, talking about topics related to sex and drugs, flipping the middle finger (and remember these are kids no older than 8!)

-kindergarteners wetting themselves and having to sit in their pee for the rest of the day because there was no nurse or because she wouldn’t call parents

-gym class being disturbed by a kid who threw chairs and gym equipment (consequence was taking a walk, skipping gym, and getting to eat a snack)

I could actually go on but I think you get the picture. I always planned to send my own child to public schools, but I didn’t know what public schools are like today. In a good day, the kids are all zoned out on their 1-to-1 iPads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

I’ve had similar experiences working in a very well regarded public K-2 while sending my own child to the parochial. Virtually all the parochial school kids are Catholic so we got some weird looks from neighbors sending our child to Catholic. What they didn’t know is what I saw in the public school daily:

-a class getting routinely evacuated for an emotionally disturbed kid

-same kid running the halls and sometimes shutting things down because he also tried to run outside (and school is at a busy intersection)

-kids routinely cursing at teachers and other adults, talking about topics related to sex and drugs, flipping the middle finger (and remember these are kids no older than 8!)

-kindergarteners wetting themselves and having to sit in their pee for the rest of the day because there was no nurse or because she wouldn’t call parents

-gym class being disturbed by a kid who threw chairs and gym equipment (consequence was taking a walk, skipping gym, and getting to eat a snack)

I could actually go on but I think you get the picture. I always planned to send my own child to public schools, but I didn’t know what public schools are like today. In a good day, the kids are all zoned out on their 1-to-1 iPads.

It really has become dis-regulation nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

I’ve had similar experiences working in a very well regarded public K-2 while sending my own child to the parochial. Virtually all the parochial school kids are Catholic so we got some weird looks from neighbors sending our child to Catholic. What they didn’t know is what I saw in the public school daily:

-a class getting routinely evacuated for an emotionally disturbed kid

-same kid running the halls and sometimes shutting things down because he also tried to run outside (and school is at a busy intersection)

-kids routinely cursing at teachers and other adults, talking about topics related to sex and drugs, flipping the middle finger (and remember these are kids no older than 8!)

-kindergarteners wetting themselves and having to sit in their pee for the rest of the day because there was no nurse or because she wouldn’t call parents

-gym class being disturbed by a kid who threw chairs and gym equipment (consequence was taking a walk, skipping gym, and getting to eat a snack)

I could actually go on but I think you get the picture. I always planned to send my own child to public schools, but I didn’t know what public schools are like today. In a good day, the kids are all zoned out on their 1-to-1 iPads.

Yes, if you live in a bad public school district you might experience that. Fortunately I live I a good public school district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

I’ve had similar experiences working in a very well regarded public K-2 while sending my own child to the parochial. Virtually all the parochial school kids are Catholic so we got some weird looks from neighbors sending our child to Catholic. What they didn’t know is what I saw in the public school daily:

-a class getting routinely evacuated for an emotionally disturbed kid

-same kid running the halls and sometimes shutting things down because he also tried to run outside (and school is at a busy intersection)

-kids routinely cursing at teachers and other adults, talking about topics related to sex and drugs, flipping the middle finger (and remember these are kids no older than 8!)

-kindergarteners wetting themselves and having to sit in their pee for the rest of the day because there was no nurse or because she wouldn’t call parents

-gym class being disturbed by a kid who threw chairs and gym equipment (consequence was taking a walk, skipping gym, and getting to eat a snack)

I could actually go on but I think you get the picture. I always planned to send my own child to public schools, but I didn’t know what public schools are like today. In a good day, the kids are all zoned out on their 1-to-1 iPads.

Yes, if you live in a bad public school district you might experience that. Fortunately I live I a good public school district.

I have not seen any of this at the public I teach at. And it’s not typically the best school in the district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

I’ve had similar experiences working in a very well regarded public K-2 while sending my own child to the parochial. Virtually all the parochial school kids are Catholic so we got some weird looks from neighbors sending our child to Catholic. What they didn’t know is what I saw in the public school daily:

-a class getting routinely evacuated for an emotionally disturbed kid

-same kid running the halls and sometimes shutting things down because he also tried to run outside (and school is at a busy intersection)

-kids routinely cursing at teachers and other adults, talking about topics related to sex and drugs, flipping the middle finger (and remember these are kids no older than 8!)

-kindergarteners wetting themselves and having to sit in their pee for the rest of the day because there was no nurse or because she wouldn’t call parents

-gym class being disturbed by a kid who threw chairs and gym equipment (consequence was taking a walk, skipping gym, and getting to eat a snack)

I could actually go on but I think you get the picture. I always planned to send my own child to public schools, but I didn’t know what public schools are like today. In a good day, the kids are all zoned out on their 1-to-1 iPads.

Yes, if you live in a bad public school district you might experience that. Fortunately I live I a good public school district.

I have not seen any of this at the public I teach at. And it’s not typically the best school in the district.

I'm the PP who has a kid in private and a kid in public. We could do point / counter-point on this all day. There are great public schools, there are great private schools. There are bad public schools and yes, there are bad private schools. I've heard horror stories from both. The horror stories are both really bad though in some ways, the stories from private school are more insidious - quiet bullying / exclusion, SA, shame and social ostricization, pressure to the point of eating disorders.

Anyway, the point is that there is no perfect answer here and everyone just needs to figure out the right school for their family and their kid. Public schools aren't perfect but don't assume a private school will be either. So whether or not it is worth it is up to you and your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

I’ve had similar experiences working in a very well regarded public K-2 while sending my own child to the parochial. Virtually all the parochial school kids are Catholic so we got some weird looks from neighbors sending our child to Catholic. What they didn’t know is what I saw in the public school daily:

-a class getting routinely evacuated for an emotionally disturbed kid

-same kid running the halls and sometimes shutting things down because he also tried to run outside (and school is at a busy intersection)

-kids routinely cursing at teachers and other adults, talking about topics related to sex and drugs, flipping the middle finger (and remember these are kids no older than 8!)

-kindergarteners wetting themselves and having to sit in their pee for the rest of the day because there was no nurse or because she wouldn’t call parents

-gym class being disturbed by a kid who threw chairs and gym equipment (consequence was taking a walk, skipping gym, and getting to eat a snack)

I could actually go on but I think you get the picture. I always planned to send my own child to public schools, but I didn’t know what public schools are like today. In a good day, the kids are all zoned out on their 1-to-1 iPads.

Yes, if you live in a bad public school district you might experience that. Fortunately I live I a good public school district.

It’s considered an excellent district, MC/UMC, and it’s mostly Catholic families who opt out. Even then for religious reasons. Probably 95% of families attend the public. I don’t think most parents know what is actually happening at school.

[Anonymous]

Going back to the original post. No, the obsession for any private or public is not justified. The US education system is inferior to the one prevalent in Europe or Asia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

I’ve had similar experiences working in a very well regarded public K-2 while sending my own child to the parochial. Virtually all the parochial school kids are Catholic so we got some weird looks from neighbors sending our child to Catholic. What they didn’t know is what I saw in the public school daily:

-a class getting routinely evacuated for an emotionally disturbed kid

-same kid running the halls and sometimes shutting things down because he also tried to run outside (and school is at a busy intersection)

-kids routinely cursing at teachers and other adults, talking about topics related to sex and drugs, flipping the middle finger (and remember these are kids no older than 8!)

-kindergarteners wetting themselves and having to sit in their pee for the rest of the day because there was no nurse or because she wouldn’t call parents

-gym class being disturbed by a kid who threw chairs and gym equipment (consequence was taking a walk, skipping gym, and getting to eat a snack)

I could actually go on but I think you get the picture. I always planned to send my own child to public schools, but I didn’t know what public schools are like today. In a good day, the kids are all zoned out on their 1-to-1 iPads.

Yes, if you live in a bad public school district you might experience that. Fortunately I live I a good public school district.

It’s considered an excellent district, MC/UMC, and it’s mostly Catholic families who opt out. Even then for religious reasons. Probably 95% of families attend the public. I don’t think most parents know what is actually happening at school.

Most excellent school districts at the elementary level have very active parent associations with lots of in-school volunteering by parents. The public elementary school where my kids went had parents volunteer daily in the library, at recess, in the printer room, and do “mystery reader” things in the classroom. When there was an incident like a highly disruptive student, trust me the parents knew. It definitely happened, but the parents knew about it.

Of course, I recognize that many many many public schools do not have the resourcing or the parent engagement to have that level of parent volunteering. But most truly “excellent” public schools do.

All I am saying is that you can’t paint a broad brush on public schools based on one experience, even if it was quote / unquote “excellent.”

[Anonymous]

Just do what makes sense for your family/child. No need to situate it in some overall public vs private macro-picture. You don’t need to justify your choices to anyone but yourself and 95% of people are too consumed with their own concerns to care anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

I’ve had similar experiences working in a very well regarded public K-2 while sending my own child to the parochial. Virtually all the parochial school kids are Catholic so we got some weird looks from neighbors sending our child to Catholic. What they didn’t know is what I saw in the public school daily:

-a class getting routinely evacuated for an emotionally disturbed kid

-same kid running the halls and sometimes shutting things down because he also tried to run outside (and school is at a busy intersection)

-kids routinely cursing at teachers and other adults, talking about topics related to sex and drugs, flipping the middle finger (and remember these are kids no older than 8!)

-kindergarteners wetting themselves and having to sit in their pee for the rest of the day because there was no nurse or because she wouldn’t call parents

-gym class being disturbed by a kid who threw chairs and gym equipment (consequence was taking a walk, skipping gym, and getting to eat a snack)

I could actually go on but I think you get the picture. I always planned to send my own child to public schools, but I didn’t know what public schools are like today. In a good day, the kids are all zoned out on their 1-to-1 iPads.

Yes, if you live in a bad public school district you might experience that. Fortunately I live I a good public school district.

First poster about behavior issues and the elementary I described was high income, ranked 10/10 on best schools and a blue ribbon award winner. Very little public schools are allowed to do regarding behavior problems, particularly with respect to kids with special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have taught in both high-income private and medium/low-income public. Bad behavior in the private meant spoiled and obnoxious kids. Bad behavior in public meant neglected and angry kids. I’ll take the latter any day.

My kid was in a high income public elementary. A friend was stalked by a fetal alcohol kid in third grade, school said there was little they could do. A classmate in kindergarten hit, pushed and stabbed other kids with pencils and scissors --kid was emotionally neglected. Another child with special needs would have full fledged temper tantrums several times a week, which brought class to a halt, despite the presence of a one to one aide.

Our private both kicks out and counsels out kids with behavior problems. Have never experienced behavior remotely close to what we observed in our public elementary.

I’ve had similar experiences working in a very well regarded public K-2 while sending my own child to the parochial. Virtually all the parochial school kids are Catholic so we got some weird looks from neighbors sending our child to Catholic. What they didn’t know is what I saw in the public school daily:

-a class getting routinely evacuated for an emotionally disturbed kid

-same kid running the halls and sometimes shutting things down because he also tried to run outside (and school is at a busy intersection)

-kids routinely cursing at teachers and other adults, talking about topics related to sex and drugs, flipping the middle finger (and remember these are kids no older than 8!)

-kindergarteners wetting themselves and having to sit in their pee for the rest of the day because there was no nurse or because she wouldn’t call parents

-gym class being disturbed by a kid who threw chairs and gym equipment (consequence was taking a walk, skipping gym, and getting to eat a snack)

I could actually go on but I think you get the picture. I always planned to send my own child to public schools, but I didn’t know what public schools are like today. In a good day, the kids are all zoned out on their 1-to-1 iPads.

Yes, if you live in a bad public school district you might experience that. Fortunately I live I a good public school district.

It’s considered an excellent district, MC/UMC, and it’s mostly Catholic families who opt out. Even then for religious reasons. Probably 95% of families attend the public. I don’t think most parents know what is actually happening at school.

Most excellent school districts at the elementary level have very active parent associations with lots of in-school volunteering by parents. The public elementary school where my kids went had parents volunteer daily in the library, at recess, in the printer room, and do “mystery reader” things in the classroom. When there was an incident like a highly disruptive student, trust me the parents knew. It definitely happened, but the parents knew about it.

Of course, I recognize that many many many public schools do not have the resourcing or the parent engagement to have that level of parent volunteering. But most truly “excellent” public schools do.

All I am saying is that you can’t paint a broad brush on public schools based on one experience, even if it was quote / unquote “excellent.”

Absolutely nothing PTA can do about behavior issues. The school I am describing was high income with very active PTA as well. Helps librarian and gives teachers a break with respect to cafeteria duty and makes sure classrooms are well stocked with supplies but that’s about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I want my kid to attend the best possible school. So far, so good. But my experience in DC has felt a bit off compared to my experience overseas: paying $40,000 for childcare at NCRC partly to get access to top private schools, hiring consultants to prepare children for admissions, dealing with opaque selection processes that seem influenced by connections, and seeing schools treated as symbols of social status.

And then, when you finally get into a top private school, you realize that the college admissions numbers may be distorted by athletes and legacy admissions, and that the actual curriculum is not necessarily stronger than what good public schools offer. So at some point you have to ask: is it really worth obsessing over something that may offer such poor value?

OP, the way you are looking at this is off. What is best for each child may be different. There is no one size fits all. I agree for the right kid public may be the best option. For others it is private.

If your kid will thrive in the local public, go for it. I would.

But also remember that most people in privates can easily afford it. Meaning they don’t notice when the money goes and would not notice if the extra money if the kid went to public. In other words there is no trade off and no sacrifice for most to attend. It is a rounding error.

If it means nothing to you to pay the tuition then the calculus certainly changes. Class size, right fit, friends are things that fully get considered.

I also agree with the PP that said college outcomes, while not not relevant, are not top of mind. Most people in this category will want their kids to go where they will thrive. That could be a top 25 or maybe not.

But they are not thinking about this the way you are.