The only way to have equity is to drag down the top performers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

Seriously, what is this competition that you've built in your head? Why is helping other kids who struggle somehow taking away help from your own? If this is really the paradigm that you're building in your mind, then you should be angry at MCPS, not other parents asking for help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

I think that it's impossible to quantify anxiety and struggles and couldn't possibly know what other people's experiences are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

Seriously, what is this competition that you've built in your head? Why is helping other kids who struggle somehow taking away help from your own? If this is really the paradigm that you're building in your mind, then you should be angry at MCPS, not other parents asking for help.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

I think that it's impossible to quantify anxiety and struggles and couldn't possibly know what other people's experiences are.

Omg

Stop talking about kids with disabilities. Just stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

Seriously, what is this competition that you've built in your head? Why is helping other kids who struggle somehow taking away help from your own? If this is really the paradigm that you're building in your mind, then you should be angry at MCPS, not other parents asking for help.

I am not the one arguing that if kids with disabilities get "tiny sheltered classes" then my kid needs one too. It's not a competition. My goal is to get you folks to stop using other people's children to advocate for your own children. Just advocate for your kids! Leave mine out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

I think that it's impossible to quantify anxiety and struggles and couldn't possibly know what other people's experiences are.

Omg

Stop talking about kids with disabilities. Just stop.

Then stop trying to pit students with disabilities against gifted students who again are not mutually exclusive groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

I think that it's impossible to quantify anxiety and struggles and couldn't possibly know what other people's experiences are.

Omg

Stop talking about kids with disabilities. Just stop.

Then stop trying to pit students with disabilities against gifted students who again are not mutually exclusive groups.

I am not doing that and I know they aren't mutually exclusive groups. However, 2e kids are not the context in which a PP mentioned kids with disabilities. It was literally if kids with disabilities have small classes gifted kids deserve it too.

No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people say it’s offensive to talk about special ed but so easily feel like they can tell the parent of a gift child “they’ll be fine”? It’s so clearly a double standard. Public tax dollars should support both.

I don't say gift kids will be "fine". I do think they need services. I take offense at the implication that kids with disabilities in self contained classrooms some kind of affront to your gifted child or a sign your kid is being treated unfairly.

Well you're getting triggered by things that aren't being said, so good luck with that

Here is what was said:
"We pay for special ed teachers to run tiny sheltered classes for the disabled. Why can’t we pay gifted teachers to run tiny sheltered classes (magnets!) for the highly able students?"

The answer to the question is because the special ed students need smaller classes and most of them do not get them. Calling them "sheltered" is offensive beyond belief.

Do you get there are different levels of need? That a special education student that qualifies for a self contained classroom most likely has higher needs than a child that is gifted (of course there are exceptions)? Can we stop pretending that if "those" kids get something then that means your kid should get the same thing?

Equity does not equal "same"

Can we stop pretending that this is some kind of competition? Jesus you're exhausting

And for what it's worth (which I see is nothing to you), my child is identified as both gifted, and can barely function at school because of disabilities that aren't supported.

But the PP literally stated she wants the same thing ("tiny sheltered classes") as what kids with disabilities get.

Sorry you don't think I see your worth or whatever it is you are trying to imply. I don't know who you are or anything about you except that you are an a-hole.

I know it’s difficult on an anonymous board but realize there are multiple posters here saying slightly different things. I didn’t argue for “tiny sheltered classes” but the point remains that MCPS is taking away gifted opportunities AND it is not serving students with disabilities well either.

You're at least settling back on an accurate statement.

Though, there's still the issue of priorities. Any parent, teacher, or student in MCPS is going to have legitimate complaints. And while it would be great to address all of them, that's realistically not going to happen- particularly in the current budget and political environment.

A broad call for improving programs focused on gifted and talented is not likely to be viewed by many as one of the more pressing issues in MCPS worthy of additional funding and resources. You may have more success arguing concrete proposals, particularly ones that may not have a substantial cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

I think that it's impossible to quantify anxiety and struggles and couldn't possibly know what other people's experiences are.

Omg

Stop talking about kids with disabilities. Just stop.

Then stop trying to pit students with disabilities against gifted students who again are not mutually exclusive groups.

No one said they are. But they are distinct programs with distinct legal requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people say it’s offensive to talk about special ed but so easily feel like they can tell the parent of a gift child “they’ll be fine”? It’s so clearly a double standard. Public tax dollars should support both.

I don't say gift kids will be "fine". I do think they need services. I take offense at the implication that kids with disabilities in self contained classrooms some kind of affront to your gifted child or a sign your kid is being treated unfairly.

Well you're getting triggered by things that aren't being said, so good luck with that

Here is what was said:
"We pay for special ed teachers to run tiny sheltered classes for the disabled. Why can’t we pay gifted teachers to run tiny sheltered classes (magnets!) for the highly able students?"

The answer to the question is because the special ed students need smaller classes and most of them do not get them. Calling them "sheltered" is offensive beyond belief.

Do you get there are different levels of need? That a special education student that qualifies for a self contained classroom most likely has higher needs than a child that is gifted (of course there are exceptions)? Can we stop pretending that if "those" kids get something then that means your kid should get the same thing?

Equity does not equal "same"

Can we stop pretending that this is some kind of competition? Jesus you're exhausting

And for what it's worth (which I see is nothing to you), my child is identified as both gifted, and can barely function at school because of disabilities that aren't supported.

But the PP literally stated she wants the same thing ("tiny sheltered classes") as what kids with disabilities get.

Sorry you don't think I see your worth or whatever it is you are trying to imply. I don't know who you are or anything about you except that you are an a-hole.

Look in the mirror my friend

I'm not the one who said "tiny sheltered classes" but what's wrong with sheltered classes? That sounds like a good thing. I understand you are saying there are large deficits and unmet needs in special education. Why can't you extend the same validation to the decimation of magnet programs and gifted education at MCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

Seriously, what is this competition that you've built in your head? Why is helping other kids who struggle somehow taking away help from your own? If this is really the paradigm that you're building in your mind, then you should be angry at MCPS, not other parents asking for help.

I am not the one arguing that if kids with disabilities get "tiny sheltered classes" then my kid needs one too. It's not a competition. My goal is to get you folks to stop using other people's children to advocate for your own children. Just advocate for your kids! Leave mine out of it.

The problem is, and you’re just the example of this, people see the value of special education and serving kids with disabilities (and again, not saying MCPS does it well, it doesn’t, we’ve established that) but people don’t see the value of serving gifted kids; they don’t understand that it can be debilitating for kids to not get the challenge and support and cohort they need. It’s not about your kid. It’s not about special ed at all. It’s about the need to serve gifted kids, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people say it’s offensive to talk about special ed but so easily feel like they can tell the parent of a gift child “they’ll be fine”? It’s so clearly a double standard. Public tax dollars should support both.

I don't say gift kids will be "fine". I do think they need services. I take offense at the implication that kids with disabilities in self contained classrooms some kind of affront to your gifted child or a sign your kid is being treated unfairly.

Well you're getting triggered by things that aren't being said, so good luck with that

Here is what was said:
"We pay for special ed teachers to run tiny sheltered classes for the disabled. Why can’t we pay gifted teachers to run tiny sheltered classes (magnets!) for the highly able students?"

The answer to the question is because the special ed students need smaller classes and most of them do not get them. Calling them "sheltered" is offensive beyond belief.

Do you get there are different levels of need? That a special education student that qualifies for a self contained classroom most likely has higher needs than a child that is gifted (of course there are exceptions)? Can we stop pretending that if "those" kids get something then that means your kid should get the same thing?

Equity does not equal "same"

Can we stop pretending that this is some kind of competition? Jesus you're exhausting

And for what it's worth (which I see is nothing to you), my child is identified as both gifted, and can barely function at school because of disabilities that aren't supported.

But the PP literally stated she wants the same thing ("tiny sheltered classes") as what kids with disabilities get.

Sorry you don't think I see your worth or whatever it is you are trying to imply. I don't know who you are or anything about you except that you are an a-hole.

Look in the mirror my friend

I'm not the one who said "tiny sheltered classes" but what's wrong with sheltered classes? That sounds like a good thing. I understand you are saying there are large deficits and unmet needs in special education. Why can't you extend the same validation to the decimation of magnet programs and gifted education at MCPS?

Huh? You want me to advocate for your kids now? Stfu. You dgaf about my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

Seriously, what is this competition that you've built in your head? Why is helping other kids who struggle somehow taking away help from your own? If this is really the paradigm that you're building in your mind, then you should be angry at MCPS, not other parents asking for help.

I am not the one arguing that if kids with disabilities get "tiny sheltered classes" then my kid needs one too. It's not a competition. My goal is to get you folks to stop using other people's children to advocate for your own children. Just advocate for your kids! Leave mine out of it.

But they are the same, my child is gifted and has disabilities. I'm sorry they don't fit into your Venn diagram of worthy special education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

Seriously, what is this competition that you've built in your head? Why is helping other kids who struggle somehow taking away help from your own? If this is really the paradigm that you're building in your mind, then you should be angry at MCPS, not other parents asking for help.

I am not the one arguing that if kids with disabilities get "tiny sheltered classes" then my kid needs one too. It's not a competition. My goal is to get you folks to stop using other people's children to advocate for your own children. Just advocate for your kids! Leave mine out of it.

The problem is, and you’re just the example of this, people see the value of special education and serving kids with disabilities (and again, not saying MCPS does it well, it doesn’t, we’ve established that) but people don’t see the value of serving gifted kids; they don’t understand that it can be debilitating for kids to not get the challenge and support and cohort they need. It’s not about your kid. It’s not about special ed at all. It’s about the need to serve gifted kids, too.

Of course people see the value! There are programs for gifted kids. Money is being allocated to this. It might not be enough, but I mean, join the club

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Anonymous wrote:Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

https://www.marylandpublicschools.org/programs/Documents/Gifted-Talented/COMAR_13A0407_GT_Education.pdf

No, I don't think they're failing on both in nearly the same degree. Kids and staff are getting physically harmed because special education programs are not being appropriately resourced. MCPS is failing students with special needs at the most basic level.

There's no comparison here.

You're not reading what the PP actually wrote. It's not about which students are being ignored the most, it's that MCPS is failing at differentiated education, which is required by law. Both are a symptom of a broader problem, and we won't see better outcomes for any of the children involved until there's solidarity to push back on MCPS.

Based on the sheer number of advanced programs across all schools, it's hard to make a strong case that they're failing gifted students. Could they do more? Of course. But they're certainly not failing them anywhere near the same degree as students with special needs

So… we should take away what they are doing for gifted kids to make things more equitable for kids with disabilities? I.e. “kids with disabilities aren’t getting enough so gifted kids should get even less.” Is that your argument? How does taking away gifted ed opportunities fix the special ed problem? Hint, it doesn’t.

No, I'm not arguing that at all. I'm saying your comparisons to special education are ignorant, offensive, and simply false.

You keep hammering on the same thing, but you're ignoring what's being said. BOTH special education and gifted education fall under the umbrella of special education and educational differentiation. You can get mad at the educational philosophy/system that has grouped them together all you want, but what is being said is not with the intent to offend, and it's certainly not ignorance. You seem to be ignorant to how educational systems categorize special education with gifted education. Why do you keep coming at this in such a triggered way? Why does it have to be pitting one group of students against another group of students (never mind as PP noted the many twice exceptional gifted students who have IEPs etc)? Don't you see that so much more could be accomplished in actual REAL pressure on MCPS if you approached it as an all boats rising situation? We should have parent solidarity across ALL needs of differentiation.

I'm not the one that started the comparison between gifted students and special with special needs. For example:

If education for ALL is really what we are aiming for, and if we are okay with tiny, publicly-funded classes for special ed, then we should be okay paying for similar classes for gifted kids.

But we’re not.

Because of the optics- nobody in the US really likes gifted kids! Like, culturally.

And

Comparing kids in special education to gifted kids is really two sides of the same coin. Put aside the fact that many are twice exceptional, Maryland law REQUIRES schools serve the needs of both and MCPS is failing in both. Can we agree on that fact?

Your claim that you want to pursue a "rising tide lifts all boats" strategy might be more credible if you weren't focused on a single policy aimed at advantaged students.

I have come to the conclusion that you're being willfully dense. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. It's the same policy. Full stop. What PP was pointing out was that even though its the same policy, culturally there's a lot more public support for special education than for gifted education. Like for example how you flipped out about even including those two types of education under the same umbrella. We understand and agree with you that MCPS should be doing more for special education. See? That's not hard. Now try the other way around without flipping out and using whatever shaming words you want to drag up.

One has nothing to do with the other. Two very different needs and populations though some gifted kids have SN.

Gifted kids and kids with intellectual disabilities are actually very similar. It’s all about the fact that their brains work differently than “typical” kids. There’s a whole movement to get giftedness itself recognized as a neurodivergence (https://www.prismadvocacy.com/blog/understanding-giftedness-as-neurodivergence). It’s not just that gifted kids are quicker and bored, they need fundamentally different supports just like those with a learning disability. But because these kids aren’t struggling on standardized tests (though struggling in other ways) people like this poster don’t see giftedness for what it is.

You are completely tone death and very insulting.

And you clearly don’t have a gifted kid. I do. And I watch her struggle every day. She has a 504 for anxiety too, but according to her psychiatrist the anxiety directly derives from her giftedness. I am not arguing for services to be taken away from students with disabilities yet you are arguing for services to be taken away from gifted kids. Why?

DP

You truly cannot fathom that while your child is legitimately struggling, other people's children are legitimately struggling much, much more?

And you know this ... how?

Really? You think a gifted child with a 504 for anxiety is struggling the same amount as a child with ID not on the diploma track? Do you get that basically all children with autism have anxiety in addition to social communication deficits?

I think that it's impossible to quantify anxiety and struggles and couldn't possibly know what other people's experiences are.

DP. I'd appreciate some specific proposals here. What sort of program is desired for a gifted student with severe anxiety?