Why are so many parents fumbling raising boys?

[Anonymous]

I think the absence of war and contraception and electronics has allowed men to become "too free" living without care. There is little to test their manhood, hours of various entertainment online and fewer children to provide for. In short, there is little they have to do and too much they can do that is not worthwhile.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We’ve raised our four boys like you’d raise girls as the social/ emotional skills of girls are more valued in school-aged years. They all play a string instruments and began ballet at 2 (they still all are in dance at 4,6,9,13). They don’t play traditional boy sports so we can avoid the toxic masculine energy. They speak two languages. We require exquisite manners and don’t tolerate rough housing. They also have no access to screens without a parent present.

This has to be a joke.

What specifically is wrong with any of that?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sure, suddenly all parents are bad at raising boys. /s

The actual reason is that stereotypical boy traits are being less valued in schools and workplaces, while girls have more opportunities than ever, so boys suddenly feel a disadvantage. Add in social media and “manosphere” stuff and that’s it.

This. They’re told by all their authority figures that they’re the ones who caused the harm to all those who have been victimized throughout society. Then they have to reconcile guilt that they never should’ve had with their own masculinity and instincts. This isn’t wholly a parent problem although I’ll be the first to say that parents who pile on to this nonsense don’t help.

Pray tell what are these stereotypical boy traits that are no longer valued,,?

Tell me you don’t have school age children without telling me.

Are you kidding?

Basically all male centric traits are swept aside now under the new banner of “kindness.”

But they are not biologically boy traits. They are traits some children have and perhaps more boys have those traits, but it’s not just boy traits.

Are you saying that a girl who is a tactile learner and learns by doing and who needs more outside activity shouldn’t receive that because she’s a girl?

DP, but this response is an excellent example of the confident stupidity and ignorance that now dominates almost all of our societal discourse. People seem to be less and less capable of perceiving nuance as time goes on; everyone is engaging in black and white thinking and just trying to “win” rather than even attempt to *think* about what another person is saying before responding with their own (most likely) incorrect and/or irrelevant counterpoint.

What’s the most interesting about your ignorant and uneducated response? Is that the post you are responding to is saying it’s way more nuance than the black-and-white thinking that schools are bad for boys and good for girls.

It’s simply not true. It’s way more nuanced..

The problem is we believe schools should be one way for everyone and when that doesn’t work, we change to another one way. But we need to do is offer different options for kids, depending on the way they learn..

Your post is almost incoherent.

Only to you, hon

You dumb, girl

Still can’t name a trait. But sure keep posting nonsense and pretend we forgot that you can’t think of one trait.

What are the traits of “toxic” masculinity?

(And FTR I’m not arguing with you about biological traits. I’m pointing out that are a self proclaimed mathematician who doesn’t understand basic statistics.)

You didn’t put forward any statistics.

Oh my Lord, it’s worse than I thought. You can’t even recognize a statistics problem when it’s in “words” rather than “numbers.”

You haven’t even put forward a statistical statement in words.

This is you…

More boys, sometimes kind of in general have traits which I can’t name might sometimes make it harder for them, but not always and not for all of them and sometimes also for girls.

This is the statement of someone who fundamentally does not understand statistics, math, or even logic:

“why is it not true for some Y and why is it not true for some X?”

Do you also declare that global warming is a hoax every time it snows? Again, I’m not discussing biology with you (I’m not even the poster who made the claim) - I’m discussing your glaring, fundamental misunderstanding of statistics which is evident by you even asking this stupid question.

You still haven’t told me what trait you’re talking about.

Is it athleticism because they are getting college scholarships?
Is it being big and strong because they’re going into the military and killing it? Literally.
Is it being good with your hands because the trades are making more money now than they ever have and some of them are making more than computer science majors .

What trait are you talking about?

So you failed math, biology, AND English?

“This is the statement of someone who fundamentally does not understand statistics, math, or even logic:

“why is it not true for some Y and why is it not true for some X?”

Do you also declare that global warming is a hoax every time it snows? Again, I’m not discussing biology with you (***I’m not even the poster who made the claim***) - I’m discussing your glaring, fundamental misunderstanding of statistics which is evident by you even asking this stupid question.”

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have one of each - boy and girl. By the time they were 2 or 3, they were well aware of stereotypes.

I appreciate the comments on the lack of good role models for boys. Look at our current administration and their values and behavior.

While I believe that there are very minor biological differences between the two, it is exacerbated by how we parent. For instance, boys are born slightly better with spatial skills. They are given more toys like legos that enhance those skills and play with them more and get more practice. Over time, the difference snowballs into a significant gap. While the boys were playing with the legos, the girls were given dolls, so they were practicing their social emotional skills. Again, over time, the minor biological difference turns into something quite significant when they enter kindergarten.

There are very major biological differences between men and women. This is a scientific fact and much of these differences are innate rather than culture or environment.

If it’s biological, why is it not true for some men and why is it not true for some women?

Take a remedial statistics course before you ask stupid questions.

No thanks I’m a mathematician and was a statistician for a while.

Please name a biological fact that affects boys/girls unless it’s something to do with their penis and vagina it’s not biological.

Neuroscientist here. Stay in your lane, mathematician. The brain gets masculinized during early development if androgens are present. Sexual dimorphisms are less prominent in the human brain than other mammals, but they do exist.

No, Miss self proclaimed mathematician needs to get out of that lane, too. She is as ignorant in that area as she is in yours.

[Anonymous]

I think that women have been pretty unhappy with the way men have imposed their idea of femininity on us throughout history. We were had a hard time throwing that off due in part to not being able to control our reproduction. That’s what I think anyway.

Now we do have more control over our reproduction (not debating abortion here, we have a lot birth control options) and things are definitely different. Thank goodness.

But it appears that now women want to define what masculinity means. And what are and aren’t acceptable ways of being a man. I find that ironic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just finished reading Boys Adrift by Leonard Sax. It discusses the reasons why many boys fail to launch, many of which have been mentioned in this thread.
I highly recommend this book if you are raising a boy.

Does he imagine it’s just harder now to compete on a level playing field?

Does he really think that meat milk eggs are causing problems?

Revenge of the forsaken God phenomenon… I mean, can’t he just admit men work too much and they’re not home with their children?

He does not say that it is harder to compete on a level playing field. But he does say that schools having more emphasis on direct instruction and testing rather than discovery is less conducive in teaching boys.

He does not mention anything about meat, milk or eggs. He does talk about microplastics in the bloodstream and medicating stimulants for ADHD.

He does say a lack of good male role models also contributes to failure to launch. This is both within the larger culture but also within individual families.

He should talk about competing on a level playing field because that is what is causing more boys strife since they can’t measure up.

Less direct structure, and less testing is good for all students stop pretending that that is biological from boys. It completely invalidates the statements.

You missed the whole chapter if you missed the meet eggs and milk or maybe you just didn’t understand it.

Again, micro plastics only affect boys?

He says that ADHD medication is fine if it is given to children who have been analyzed by physician and prescribed it. Obviously taking ADHD medication when you’re not supposed to be taking it is bad and guess what it’s bad for girls too.

Guess what dad’s not being home ever because they work too many hours or they’re traveling or they just don’t want to be engaged or they think that’s the wife’s job. It’s bad or boys and guess what? It’s bad for girls too.

He does not talk about meat, eggs and milk and the fact you continue to claim this leads me to beleive you are lying and you have not read the book.

Microplastics affects boys differently than girls. In girls they seem to start puberty early. He goes indepth about a study done in Puerto Rico where girls who drank water from plastic bottles started puberty at an earlier age. For boys, the evidence is less clear, but microplastics may delay puberty for boys.

He does not say all ADHD medication is bad. He advocates for non-stimulant medications like Wellbutrin, Strattera, and Intuniv, rather than stimulants like Adderall, Vyvanse, and Concerta.

You just didn’t understand the section about micro plastics.

The book identifies five key drivers: changes in education, video games, ADHD medication, endocrine disruptors, and a lack of strong male role models

endocrine disruptors…, this section includes micro plastics, but it also includes milk, eggs, and meat. I don’t think anybody thinks that vegan diet is bad.

Here’s the thing about people reading books and then going and spouting about them. It’s not that I have anything specifically against the book. It’s just your interpretation of the book.

Actually, I do have one specific thing I don’t like about the book. Is that girls need all of those things too?

I didn’t really need to be a book about boys specifically and it’s fine. Write a book about boys. I don’t care.

OMG. Do you live on this website?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’ve raised our four boys like you’d raise girls as the social/ emotional skills of girls are more valued in school-aged years. They all play a string instruments and began ballet at 2 (they still all are in dance at 4,6,9,13). They don’t play traditional boy sports so we can avoid the toxic masculine energy. They speak two languages. We require exquisite manners and don’t tolerate rough housing. They also have no access to screens without a parent present.

Q. For this person:

- did you create the thread in Off Topic on “toxic masculinity” ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that women have been pretty unhappy with the way men have imposed their idea of femininity on us throughout history. We were had a hard time throwing that off due in part to not being able to control our reproduction. That’s what I think anyway.

Now we do have more control over our reproduction (not debating abortion here, we have a lot birth control options) and things are definitely different. Thank goodness.

But it appears that now women want to define what masculinity means. And what are and aren’t acceptable ways of being a man. I find that ironic.

Feminism had promise when it was about equality and liberation but then it became clear that many women just wanted to act like the worst men. Rather than society becoming more feminine we all just started acting more like toxic masculinity. Humans like to eff with one another male or female. It’s depressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that women have been pretty unhappy with the way men have imposed their idea of femininity on us throughout history. We were had a hard time throwing that off due in part to not being able to control our reproduction. That’s what I think anyway.

Now we do have more control over our reproduction (not debating abortion here, we have a lot birth control options) and things are definitely different. Thank goodness.

But it appears that now women want to define what masculinity means. And what are and aren’t acceptable ways of being a man. I find that ironic.

Feminism had promise when it was about equality and liberation but then it became clear that many women just wanted to act like the worst men. Rather than society becoming more feminine we all just started acting more like toxic masculinity. Humans like to eff with one another male or female. It’s depressing.

I liken the feminism here to the Trump revenge tour. It’s petty and spiteful at its core.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sure, suddenly all parents are bad at raising boys. /s

The actual reason is that stereotypical boy traits are being less valued in schools and workplaces, while girls have more opportunities than ever, so boys suddenly feel a disadvantage. Add in social media and “manosphere” stuff and that’s it.

+1

It’s why so many young men support the R party and why the D party is spending 20M on trying to figure out how to talk to men.

Boys need recess. They like to roughhouse. They are generally different and that’s ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, suddenly all parents are bad at raising boys. /s

The actual reason is that stereotypical boy traits are being less valued in schools and workplaces, while girls have more opportunities than ever, so boys suddenly feel a disadvantage. Add in social media and “manosphere” stuff and that’s it.

+1

It’s why so many young men support the R party and why the D party is spending 20M on trying to figure out how to talk to men.

Boys need recess. They like to roughhouse. They are generally different and that’s ok.

Send them outside to roughhouse and run around as much as you want! See if you can get them off their devices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, suddenly all parents are bad at raising boys. /s

The actual reason is that stereotypical boy traits are being less valued in schools and workplaces, while girls have more opportunities than ever, so boys suddenly feel a disadvantage. Add in social media and “manosphere” stuff and that’s it.

+1

It’s why so many young men support the R party and why the D party is spending 20M on trying to figure out how to talk to men.

Boys need recess. They like to roughhouse. They are generally different and that’s ok.

Send them outside to roughhouse and run around as much as you want! See if you can get them off their devices.

Um I do? Sorry your sons (and/or the young men and boys you know) are couch potatoes?

[Anonymous]

OP - I’m curious what you think is wrong with boys at the societal level that is different than 10 or 20 or 30 years ago?
I have two boys (18 & 15). Every generation raises their children different than the generation before. We correct the things we think our parents got wrong but screw up in different ways.
I’m Gen X. My parents were barely around. All the Gen X feral kids memes pretty much sum up my early life. My parents did not encourage me to do any sports or join any clubs. They were drunk most nights and my siblings and I fed ourselves, cleaned up after ourselves, got ourselves to school, etc.
My parenting styles – when they were young, I valued classic education, and I was probably a bit of a helicopter parent mixed with Tiger mom. They took violin lessons for 3 years. They played soccer and swam. Took gymnastics. Pushed them to get As and study hard with summer math worksheets and science camps and and and… They got burned out. I got burned out. I stopped pushing hard and stopped being a helicopter parent/Tiger mom when the oldest was 8.
I let them take the lead. No more forcing sports – just advocating that they move their body. No more pressuring them on homework or summer “fun” work.
We got involved with scouting as a way for them to have some structure / direction. We aren’t religious but scouting was good way to get involved in the community and learn about the value of service. Unplugging one weekend a month to hike and fish and camp with their scouting friends.
My oldest said he wishes that I pushed him in sports. I reminded him that I always encouraged / offered, but did not push because I did not want him to resent me or hate the sport. Can’t win…
Looking at my sons, I cannot say there is anything seriously wrong with them. Oldest is headed to college in a degree he is interested in. Nice girlfriend that he respects – and they are both supportive of each other.
Neither of my sons exhibit “toxic masculinity” – but neither will shy away from standing up for what is right. They respect girls but don’t expect girls to like them because they are nice, nor expect to be waited on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, suddenly all parents are bad at raising boys. /s

The actual reason is that stereotypical boy traits are being less valued in schools and workplaces, while girls have more opportunities than ever, so boys suddenly feel a disadvantage. Add in social media and “manosphere” stuff and that’s it.

+1

It’s why so many young men support the R party and why the D party is spending 20M on trying to figure out how to talk to men.

Boys need recess. They like to roughhouse. They are generally different and that’s ok.

Send them outside to roughhouse and run around as much as you want! See if you can get them off their devices.

Um I do? Sorry your sons (and/or the young men and boys you know) are couch potatoes?

My boy is great, but it doesn’t matter what your kid does or my kid does. We’re taking about societal levels here. The outdoors have always been available for boys to enjoy however they need to. If they’re not out there en masse, what’s stopping them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, suddenly all parents are bad at raising boys. /s

The actual reason is that stereotypical boy traits are being less valued in schools and workplaces, while girls have more opportunities than ever, so boys suddenly feel a disadvantage. Add in social media and “manosphere” stuff and that’s it.

+1

It’s why so many young men support the R party and why the D party is spending 20M on trying to figure out how to talk to men.

Boys need recess. They like to roughhouse. They are generally different and that’s ok.

Why so many young women support the Republican Party? I don’t think it’s recess.