If every kid is doing the same damn EC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if anyone remembers back in 2007 that Joshua Bell, one of the world famous violinists, stood in front of a metro station and played for 45 minutes. Almost no one recognized who he was. Joshua Bell is a great violinist, but he does not produce anything useful, he just plays music by other composers. This is the perfect example of someone with a 4.0 GPA, a high SAT/ACT score, and tons of ECs. HYPMS doesn't want this candidate.

Now replace the same above scenario with Noel Gallagher, the songwriter and singer from the band Oasis, if you don't know who he is. He would be mobbed by thousands and thousands of fans. He writes and makes his own music. This is an example of someone that HYPMS wants.

​Can you see the difference?

Do you really think that HYPMS only accepts Noel Gallaghers? You are delusional. Majority of students getting in are sheep and just know how to play like Joshua Bell. I don’t know a single kid that was accepted who was like Noel Gallagher. They were either very ordinar legacy students with zero to mediocre ECs, recruited athletes, kids of influential parents etc.. not one of them was a creative kid. All sheep or all there because of connections.

DP. You don't have to be Noel Gallaghers, but you have something unique, HYPMS will take you over someone with 4.0 GPA & a high SAT. If I can teach a monkey long enough, that monkey can play violin a level or two below Joshua Bell. What I can't teach the monkey is how to write "don't look back in anger" lyrics or play guitar like Noel Gallaghers. The world is full of, as Randy Newman put it "and all the people dressed like monkeys" in his "I love L.A." lyric.

nonsense. teaching monkey to play violin is not easier than teaching it to write don't look back in anger. AI can do a much better job with the later.

I have a degree in music from Berklee college of music, and I am also an AI engineer. I can say with almost 100% certainty that AI can not write the lyrics plus music notes/chords for that song.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:

How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
​AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement

- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement

- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you

- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better

- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
​AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you

How to get accepted by Ivies:

- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university

- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.

You get the idea...

And this is why schools like Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Duke, and Northwestern prioritize “individual achievement, notoriety, success, or ranking” in non-academic areas.

These kids with some sort of fame, including an individual random “hobby” that will garner continued national recognition or achievement matter a lot more than a perfect scores and perfect grades.

A university wants successful accomplished and famous alumni.
A larger predictor of that is this exact type of individual drive/creativity and success in HS.
Test scores and grades do not get you there.
This is the entire point or reason behind holistic admissions.

Test scores a better predictor of success after college than almost anything else.
Everything from peer reviewed publications to financial success to scientific accomplishments.
If a 1600 SAT ukelele player is somehow more prone to success than a 1600 violin player, I would bet it has more to do with their risk tolerance and willingness to do new things.

Test scores are a predictor of someone doing well in a middle management job and maxing out at $350k a year.
That is not "success" in a T20 college eyes. Sure, they need some of those poeple....but they are willing to take a bet/leap on the more interesting creative kids who won't play by the rules.

Let me guess which one is your kid.

The jab at my kid aside, you are wrong about what tests measure.

My guess is your kid has crappy test scores and you are trying to cope.

I'll bite. Yes, my kid does have crappy scores (like REALLY crappy, like people on DCUM would have said go to community college crappy). Yet somehow, they are sitting next to your kid at a T25 and have had internships and leadership roles, so go figure. They happen to have EQ off the hook and are above average intelligence (think IQ of 120 or so). And no, they are not an athlete (well, they are but not for the college and not olympic level or anything).

And you think that makes your kid is interesting and creative while my kid is a grinder?

Everyone shouldn’t take things so personally.
Imagine how an AO would see your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s wrong with regular high school clubs and activities? Kids are kids and not every kid (or family) has the wherewithal to pursue a passion project or start a nonprofit or do groundbreaking research. I’m wondering when there will be a backlash against the new admissions metrics and what it will look like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:

How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
​AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement

- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement

- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you

- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better

- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
​AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you

How to get accepted by Ivies:

- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university

- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.

You get the idea...

And this is why schools like Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Duke, and Northwestern prioritize “individual achievement, notoriety, success, or ranking” in non-academic areas.

These kids with some sort of fame, including an individual random “hobby” that will garner continued national recognition or achievement matter a lot more than a perfect scores and perfect grades.

A university wants successful accomplished and famous alumni.
A larger predictor of that is this exact type of individual drive/creativity and success in HS.
Test scores and grades do not get you there.
This is the entire point or reason behind holistic admissions.

Test scores a better predictor of success after college than almost anything else.
Everything from peer reviewed publications to financial success to scientific accomplishments.
If a 1600 SAT ukelele player is somehow more prone to success than a 1600 violin player, I would bet it has more to do with their risk tolerance and willingness to do new things.

Test scores are a predictor of someone doing well in a middle management job and maxing out at $350k a year.
That is not "success" in a T20 college eyes. Sure, they need some of those poeple....but they are willing to take a bet/leap on the more interesting creative kids who won't play by the rules.

Let me guess which one is your kid.

What a snub!
My kid is the former with near perfect SAT, GPA, amazing academic achievements and a degree from a top of top tier college. They're currently making $2M+ a year three years out of college. They're so much more intelligent and creative than you mouth runners.

If this is really true and you are not a troll, I would be willing to bet your kid had something in their application that showed the college a spark beyond others. I doubt they were the Model UN, Debate typical kid.

This person is almost certainly a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AO are often time mediocre students from poor families. They have a bias against high achieving students - especially Asians.

Why? Plain and simply - Envy.

A lot of things have to work out well in a student's life - family, parents, knowledge, tradition, culture, community, resources - for them to do 12 APs, 1550+ SAT, 4.0 GPA, ECs etc. And most Asian students have that available to them when applying and will continue to have all of this after college.

Extreme copium in this post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:*to appeal
The only thing white people are doing more than Asians are sports. Asians are doing origami, ukulele, circus and the rest of the junk mentioned here.

White people are doing better in team sports popular in US. Asians actually perform better in swimming, golf, gymnastics etc. Because these are sports where individual performance matters and Asians do not get blocked by their coaches or other parents.

We watched the olympics, thanks. We know what Asians are good at.

Watching the Olympics, I don’t see white people particularly good at team sports either. It was mostly black people contributing to the medals for the USA. White people are actually good at playing discrimination games because they’re the majority of this country.

White people are good at the sports black people haven't discovered yet.
Like white people literally invent sports just so they can be good at it.
Williams sisters dominate women's tennis and then it looks like more black women in the pipeline so now we have pickleball.

Sorta like "inventing" tea party and maga. A black man became president, we need to invent a new party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Test scores a better predictor of success after college than almost anything else.
Everything from peer reviewed publications to financial success to scientific accomplishments.
If a 1600 SAT ukelele player is somehow more prone to success than a 1600 violin player, I would bet it has more to do with their risk tolerance and willingness to do new things.

Here is a real world example. If you have Patrick Monahan and Joshua Bell walking down the street in NYC side by side, the police would have to block the street for Patrick Monahan for the fans, while Joshua Bell would be unrecognized by almost no one. Patrick Monahan is the singer and ukelele player of the group train with the famous song "soul sister". The Ukelele player outshines the violin player every time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test scores a better predictor of success after college than almost anything else.
Everything from peer reviewed publications to financial success to scientific accomplishments.
If a 1600 SAT ukelele player is somehow more prone to success than a 1600 violin player, I would bet it has more to do with their risk tolerance and willingness to do new things.

Here is a real world example. If you have Patrick Monahan and Joshua Bell walking down the street in NYC side by side, the police would have to block the street for Patrick Monahan for the fans, while Joshua Bell would be unrecognized by almost no one. Patrick Monahan is the singer and ukelele player of the group train with the famous song "soul sister". The Ukelele player outshines the violin player every time.
Never heard of either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s wrong with regular high school clubs and activities? Kids are kids and not every kid (or family) has the wherewithal to pursue a passion project or start a nonprofit or do groundbreaking research. I’m wondering when there will be a backlash against the new admissions metrics and what it will look like.

Those regular kids are getting into schools too!! Just not T10 - might get into some T25 in ED with great leadership in HS clubs....best advice I got was (1) study who was getting into top schools from my kid's HS (and try and get info on their leadership/activities; (2) figure out the extras available at your HS (whether research or leadership with principal etc) and (3) figure out which teachers give the BEST LOR and also make sure your kids are strategic in those classes by 11th grade.

It works out!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test scores a better predictor of success after college than almost anything else.
Everything from peer reviewed publications to financial success to scientific accomplishments.
If a 1600 SAT ukelele player is somehow more prone to success than a 1600 violin player, I would bet it has more to do with their risk tolerance and willingness to do new things.

Here is a real world example. If you have Patrick Monahan and Joshua Bell walking down the street in NYC side by side, the police would have to block the street for Patrick Monahan for the fans, while Joshua Bell would be unrecognized by almost no one. Patrick Monahan is the singer and ukelele player of the group train with the famous song "soul sister". The Ukelele player outshines the violin player every time.

Never heard of either.

Strange examples...I couldn't pick either walking down the street. However, the difference is picking a pop star off the street vs. a classical musician off the street.

Is there a difference between a violin and a fiddle (honest question)? Certainly, country music fans would know Charlie Daniels walking down the street

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are tons of kids who get into top colleges with the formula of:

Top grades in hardest tracks
Tippy top test scores
Enough ECs to pass muster as well rounded

This was me and most of my friends, who were all top 25% (and usually top 10%) at Ivy graduation.

Unless you and most of your friends went to ivies within the last 2 (maybe 3) years, your experience is not relevant to how college admissions is now.

Actually, this year and next year will be different from the last two years as well. College admissions has been in constant flux since the class of 2021 applied; no two years have been quite the same since then: Covid class '20 admissions was normal, then deferrals and WL movements went crazy due to COVID; post covid class '21 started TO, dealing with last years deferrals returning; not enough dorm space, new deferrals, and tons of WL movement; '22 TO continuing with tons of deferred kids taking back spots and shrinking the incoming class; '23 TO continues, but starts to claw back, with class sizes normalizing plus explosion of admissions for "alternate start" options like start abroad, other campuses, etc. (always had some of this but it went crazy after COVID as they struggled to get back to class size averages); '24 new AA Supreme court case, plus TO continues to revert in some schools; '25 legacy disappears in many schools coast to coast, schools still grapple with AA changes, TO continues to revert in even more schools -- essentially the rules for each school are different which changes kids lists and strategies yet again). All of this can change what kids try to highlight in their applications. Who knows what next year will look like?

Things will get more normalized when test scores are required again.
Trying to read the tea leaves without any frikking tea leaves has been difficult for the admissions committees.

I don't think test scores will be required again for outside of top 20 anytime soon.

Purdue recently reinstated their requirement, and they're nowhere near a T20 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are tons of kids who get into top colleges with the formula of:

Top grades in hardest tracks
Tippy top test scores
Enough ECs to pass muster as well rounded

This was me and most of my friends, who were all top 25% (and usually top 10%) at Ivy graduation.

Unless you and most of your friends went to ivies within the last 2 (maybe 3) years, your experience is not relevant to how college admissions is now.

Actually, this year and next year will be different from the last two years as well. College admissions has been in constant flux since the class of 2021 applied; no two years have been quite the same since then: Covid class '20 admissions was normal, then deferrals and WL movements went crazy due to COVID; post covid class '21 started TO, dealing with last years deferrals returning; not enough dorm space, new deferrals, and tons of WL movement; '22 TO continuing with tons of deferred kids taking back spots and shrinking the incoming class; '23 TO continues, but starts to claw back, with class sizes normalizing plus explosion of admissions for "alternate start" options like start abroad, other campuses, etc. (always had some of this but it went crazy after COVID as they struggled to get back to class size averages); '24 new AA Supreme court case, plus TO continues to revert in some schools; '25 legacy disappears in many schools coast to coast, schools still grapple with AA changes, TO continues to revert in even more schools -- essentially the rules for each school are different which changes kids lists and strategies yet again). All of this can change what kids try to highlight in their applications. Who knows what next year will look like?

Things will get more normalized when test scores are required again.
Trying to read the tea leaves without any frikking tea leaves has been difficult for the admissions committees.

I don't think test scores will be required again for outside of top 20 anytime soon.

Purdue recently reinstated their requirement, and they're nowhere near a T20 school.

its bc its STEM heavy.
If you are STEM, you've never really been TO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:

How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
​AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement

- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement

- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you

- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better

- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
​AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you

How to get accepted by Ivies:

- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university

- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.

You get the idea...

And this is why schools like Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Duke, and Northwestern prioritize “individual achievement, notoriety, success, or ranking” in non-academic areas.

These kids with some sort of fame, including an individual random “hobby” that will garner continued national recognition or achievement matter a lot more than a perfect scores and perfect grades.

A university wants successful accomplished and famous alumni.
A larger predictor of that is this exact type of individual drive/creativity and success in HS.
Test scores and grades do not get you there.
This is the entire point or reason behind holistic admissions.

Test scores a better predictor of success after college than almost anything else.
Everything from peer reviewed publications to financial success to scientific accomplishments.
If a 1600 SAT ukelele player is somehow more prone to success than a 1600 violin player, I would bet it has more to do with their risk tolerance and willingness to do new things.

Test scores are a predictor of someone doing well in a middle management job and maxing out at $350k a year.
That is not "success" in a T20 college eyes. Sure, they need some of those poeple....but they are willing to take a bet/leap on the more interesting creative kids who won't play by the rules.

Let me guess which one is your kid.

The jab at my kid aside, you are wrong about what tests measure.

My guess is your kid has crappy test scores and you are trying to cope.

I'll bite. Yes, my kid does have crappy scores (like REALLY crappy, like people on DCUM would have said go to community college crappy). Yet somehow, they are sitting next to your kid at a T25 and have had internships and leadership roles, so go figure. They happen to have EQ off the hook and are above average intelligence (think IQ of 120 or so). And no, they are not an athlete (well, they are but not for the college and not olympic level or anything).

And you think that makes your kid is interesting and creative while my kid is a grinder?

Oh no. My kid is a grinder, too. They just did not have high test scores (learning disabilities— any successful kid with LDs knows how to grind), but I think their EQ sets them apart. It has given them the things on their resume that set them apart. My point was test scores are not the be all and end all (or maybe even necessary at all).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my coworkers' wife, who is an AO at an Ivy, said this to me at the company last year Christmas party:

How to get rejected by Ivies:
- I have 4.0 GPA with 12 AP classes
​AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same achievement

- I am the violin first chair in the orchestra,
AO response: There are 1200 Asian kids with the same achievement

- I score 1570+ on the SAT
AO response: There are 1500 Asian kids with the same score as you

- I am an accomplished pianist
AO response: There are 800 Asian kids that can play piano just as good as you, if not better

- I found a nonprofit to help the homeless:
​AO response: There are 500 Asian kids that also do the same thing like you

How to get accepted by Ivies:

- I can play guitar like Slash of Guns 'n Roses. I can show you how I play "November Rain" or "sweet child o mine"
AO response: Now that's unique. We would love to have you at the university

- I have a TikTok influencer with over 2M followers
AO response: Amazing. You know how to monetize your influence. It means more exposure for the university. Welcome to the university.

You get the idea...

And this is why schools like Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, Duke, and Northwestern prioritize “individual achievement, notoriety, success, or ranking” in non-academic areas.

These kids with some sort of fame, including an individual random “hobby” that will garner continued national recognition or achievement matter a lot more than a perfect scores and perfect grades.

A university wants successful accomplished and famous alumni.
A larger predictor of that is this exact type of individual drive/creativity and success in HS.
Test scores and grades do not get you there.
This is the entire point or reason behind holistic admissions.

Test scores a better predictor of success after college than almost anything else.
Everything from peer reviewed publications to financial success to scientific accomplishments.
If a 1600 SAT ukelele player is somehow more prone to success than a 1600 violin player, I would bet it has more to do with their risk tolerance and willingness to do new things.

Test scores are a predictor of someone doing well in a middle management job and maxing out at $350k a year.
That is not "success" in a T20 college eyes. Sure, they need some of those poeple....but they are willing to take a bet/leap on the more interesting creative kids who won't play by the rules.

Let me guess which one is your kid.

The jab at my kid aside, you are wrong about what tests measure.

My guess is your kid has crappy test scores and you are trying to cope.

I'll bite. Yes, my kid does have crappy scores (like REALLY crappy, like people on DCUM would have said go to community college crappy). Yet somehow, they are sitting next to your kid at a T25 and have had internships and leadership roles, so go figure. They happen to have EQ off the hook and are above average intelligence (think IQ of 120 or so). And no, they are not an athlete (well, they are but not for the college and not olympic level or anything).

And you think that makes your kid is interesting and creative while my kid is a grinder?

Oh no. My kid is a grinder, too. They just did not have high test scores (learning disabilities— any successful kid with LDs knows how to grind), but I think their EQ sets them apart. It has given them the things on their resume that set them apart. My point was test scores are not the be all and end all (or maybe even necessary at all).

sometimes these are the kids that get all the internships and clubs at college.
Its been interesting to see how this develops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Test scores a better predictor of success after college than almost anything else.
Everything from peer reviewed publications to financial success to scientific accomplishments.
If a 1600 SAT ukelele player is somehow more prone to success than a 1600 violin player, I would bet it has more to do with their risk tolerance and willingness to do new things.

Here is a real world example. If you have Patrick Monahan and Joshua Bell walking down the street in NYC side by side, the police would have to block the street for Patrick Monahan for the fans, while Joshua Bell would be unrecognized by almost no one. Patrick Monahan is the singer and ukelele player of the group train with the famous song "soul sister". The Ukelele player outshines the violin player every time.

Promise to never use the Joshua Bell example again. You’ve beaten that dead horse. enough