Was UM, UVA, and UW Madison considered more “prestigious” back in the day?

[Anonymous]

Lol. What’s changed?

Not the schools. The…

Audience
Parents
Consumers (wouldn’t dream of calling them students)
Internet
Pre professional focus

have all changed dramatically. That is what changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back when I graduated high school( in the eighties), these were the schools people talked about. They weren’t Harvard, but I’d put them analogous to Notre Dame or Vanderbilt today. What happened? Is it all because they say “public” or “land-grant”, kind of how the ultra pretentious rip on Cornell.

The answer is that universities began to compete like firms starting in the Reagan Era. Notre Dame and Vanderbilt built up their endowments and invested in their resources to attract talented students. Michigan and Virginia, while public, did similar things, with Michigan allowing its sports teams to market and bring in revenue. They also have top graduate professional schools (mba/JD).

Wisconsin, one of the few land grants with great academics, did not become more market oriented. It hasn’t changed, in fact quite the opposite. While the others privatized, Wisconsin remained an old fashioned state university which cared more about graduate research than undergraduate education.

The US News rank reflects that perfectly. Notre Dame and Vanderbilt are considered slightly more prestigious ( for undergraduate), UVA and Michigan are tied, and Wisconsin is a bit behind. It’s not rocket science.

The history has nothing to do with "the Reagan era", whatever that means. Today's competitiveness has to do with the rise and power of USNew&WOrld report. Schools started reporting their test scores and GPA to USNWR, and USNWR because (IMHO ) far too powerful.

+1 exactly. USNWR was created in 1983. From that point on, the colleges were competing against USNWR. Has nothing to do with Reagan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is unique among publics for the combination of its founders, its architecture, its age, its quality education, including its professional schools, and its strong connections with Ivies.

What "connections with Ivies"? It's a state school.

Wasn’t there some informal connection between UVA & Princeton? Woodrow Wilson & all that? Something about Princeton being the farthest south of the prestigious Northeastern colleges, & therefore being more inclined than the others to deal with UVA?

uh. no. Wilson attended UVA for law. Want to try that assertion again with facts?

He dropped out of UVA law, because it was un-intellectual. Actually, UVA exclusively taught law during the 1870-1880s, a practice that continued well into the 1920s. [b]Basically, UVA was a trade school for the southern elite.

Johns Hopkins, on the other hand, offered a true intellectual atmosphere, one which Wilson quickly accepted a took a PhD in American History ( focusing on law).

Believe or not, most historians of law are more proficient in the law than actual lawyers. Lawyers are more or less greasy, sweaty, pompous sophists.

UVA is still like this. Most professors are nobody’s in terms of academic profile or intelligent. The only two nationally competitive departments are for dumb rich people, business and law. To be clear, business is always for dumb people, even Harvard Business School.

False, Law was only one of several undergraduate studies because Jefferson thought future leaders needed to
understand the basics of law. When classes commenced in 1825, a student could study in one or several of eight independent schools: Medicine, mathematics, chemistry, ancient languages, modern languages, natural philosophy, moral philosophy, and law. The Law School wasn't founded until 1909.

[Anonymous]

^^ all available in wiki. Doesn't sound like the curriculum of "a trade school for the southern elite.". and if course there was no business course of study back then

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is unique among publics for the combination of its founders, its architecture, its age, its quality education, including its professional schools, and its strong connections with Ivies.

What "connections with Ivies"? It's a state school.

Wasn’t there some informal connection between UVA & Princeton? Woodrow Wilson & all that? Something about Princeton being the farthest south of the prestigious Northeastern colleges, & therefore being more inclined than the others to deal with UVA?

uh. no. Wilson attended UVA for law. Want to try that assertion again with facts?

Your post makes no sense.

DP. Makes sense to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA was not a big deal when I went to college in 1997.

Agent Starling bragged about going there though.

I went to high school in Massachusetts in the 1970s & the first thing that made me aware of UVA was that the Kennedys sent two of their dimmer bulbs to its law school. Decades ago I assumed that meant its law school was good, but now I think they probably attended because they could make some DC connections & sow a ton of wild oats without offending anyone of importance.

Nevertheless, today UVA law is ranked no 4. UVA undergrad is ranked 24 in the nation for all schools and no. 4 best public university.

The 4th best public based on metrics that favor what UVA is good at: producing unintellectual finance bros. UVA is not a leader in higher education, its PhDs fair horribly on the market, and undergraduate research is shoddy and baseless given the lack of notable faculty across disciplines (UVA has a low ranking history and math department, for example)

Sources, please.

Bruh. Just look at the UNSWR department rankings. History=30s, math=40s, any language that exists other than English=unranked, engineering=30/, philosophy=unranked. Was not an AAU founding member, and not admitted until 1923 (IU joined more than a decade before it).

Notice how almost all of UVA’s alumni before 1950 earn undergrad or graduate L.L.Bs

That my friends is a trade school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think they were ever equivalent to Vanderbilt.

Until recently, Vanderbilt was hardly a thing. Robust marketing department for sure. My high stats kid received multiple weekly glossy marketing material from the school for at least two years. Once they mailed my kid that as a national merit finalist she qualified for a 65k merit scholarship if she listed Vanderbilt as her first choice in the NMS portal. The 65k was a mistake (it’s 5k instead). They had to mail over 15k corrected letters to the parents of NMF students informing them of the error. My kid had no interest in the school or Tennessee…even if in Nashville.

That’s lame. Even ignoring the error, it’s annoying to be “qualified” for a $5k discount to such an expensive school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is unique among publics for the combination of its founders, its architecture, its age, its quality education, including its professional schools, and its strong connections with Ivies.

What "connections with Ivies"? It's a state school.

Wasn’t there some informal connection between UVA & Princeton? Woodrow Wilson & all that? Something about Princeton being the farthest south of the prestigious Northeastern colleges, & therefore being more inclined than the others to deal with UVA?

uh. no. Wilson attended UVA for law. Want to try that assertion again with facts?

He dropped out of UVA law, because it was un-intellectual. Actually, UVA exclusively taught law during the 1870-1880s, a practice that continued well into the 1920s. Basically, UVA was a trade school for the southern elite.

Johns Hopkins, on the other hand, offered a true intellectual atmosphere, one which Wilson quickly accepted a took a PhD in American History ( focusing on law).

Believe or not, most historians of law are more proficient in the law than actual lawyers. Lawyers are more or less greasy, sweaty, pompous sophists.

UVA is still like this. Most professors are nobody’s in terms of academic profile or intelligent. The only two nationally competitive departments are for dumb rich people, business and law. To be clear, business is always for dumb people, even Harvard Business School.

Thank you for your nuanced dissection of American higher education. In a world in which so many people resort to broad generalizations, it’s refreshing to find someone who can deal with the gray areas.

However, I think Wilson dropped out of UVA law for health reasons but studied it on his own & passed the bar. He apparently gave up on law after finding PRACTICING it (not studying it) to be unfulfilling.

Wilson was fundamentally a scholar, an intelligent progressive. I can’t think of a more idiosyncratic juxtaposition than lawyers and intelligent progressives.

Progressive? He opposed women's suffeage until he was forced to go along and imposed segregation in the executive branch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is unique among publics for the combination of its founders, its architecture, its age, its quality education, including its professional schools, and its strong connections with Ivies.

What "connections with Ivies"? It's a state school.

Wasn’t there some informal connection between UVA & Princeton? Woodrow Wilson & all that? Something about Princeton being the farthest south of the prestigious Northeastern colleges, & therefore being more inclined than the others to deal with UVA?

uh. no. Wilson attended UVA for law. Want to try that assertion again with facts?

He dropped out of UVA law, because it was un-intellectual. Actually, UVA exclusively taught law during the 1870-1880s, a practice that continued well into the 1920s. Basically, UVA was a trade school for the southern elite.

Johns Hopkins, on the other hand, offered a true intellectual atmosphere, one which Wilson quickly accepted a took a PhD in American History ( focusing on law).

Believe or not, most historians of law are more proficient in the law than actual lawyers. Lawyers are more or less greasy, sweaty, pompous sophists.

UVA is still like this. Most professors are nobody’s in terms of academic profile or intelligent. The only two nationally competitive departments are for dumb rich people, business and law. To be clear, business is always for dumb people, even Harvard Business School.

Thank you for your nuanced dissection of American higher education. In a world in which so many people resort to broad generalizations, it’s refreshing to find someone who can deal with the gray areas.

However, I think Wilson dropped out of UVA law for health reasons but studied it on his own & passed the bar. He apparently gave up on law after finding PRACTICING it (not studying it) to be unfulfilling.

Wilson was fundamentally a scholar, an intelligent progressive. I can’t think of a more idiosyncratic juxtaposition than lawyers and intelligent progressives.

Progressive? He opposed women's suffeage until he was forced to go along and imposed segregation in the executive branch.

Yes, progressives are racist & misogynistic. Bill Clinton & the cigar, Biden loving Byrd, “articulate & clean.” Planned Parenthood has a big presence in black neighborhoods to keep their population down. Where have you been?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is unique among publics for the combination of its founders, its architecture, its age, its quality education, including its professional schools, and its strong connections with Ivies.

What "connections with Ivies"? It's a state school.

Wasn’t there some informal connection between UVA & Princeton? Woodrow Wilson & all that? Something about Princeton being the farthest south of the prestigious Northeastern colleges, & therefore being more inclined than the others to deal with UVA?

uh. no. Wilson attended UVA for law. Want to try that assertion again with facts?

Your post makes no sense.

DP. Makes sense to me

Nobody said Wilson didn’t go to UVA for Law School. The issue was a connection between UVA & Ivies. PP pointed out a connection, Wilson. Wilson went to Princeton undergrad. He presumably could have gone to Harvard or Yale for law, but went to UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is unique among publics for the combination of its founders, its architecture, its age, its quality education, including its professional schools, and its strong connections with Ivies.

What "connections with Ivies"? It's a state school.

Wasn’t there some informal connection between UVA & Princeton? Woodrow Wilson & all that? Something about Princeton being the farthest south of the prestigious Northeastern colleges, & therefore being more inclined than the others to deal with UVA?

uh. no. Wilson attended UVA for law. Want to try that assertion again with facts?

Your post makes no sense.

DP. Makes sense to me

Nobody said Wilson didn’t go to UVA for Law School. The issue was a connection between UVA & Ivies. PP pointed out a connection, Wilson. Wilson went to Princeton undergrad. He presumably could have gone to Harvard or Yale for law, but went to UVA.

Wilson was at UVA for one semester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is unique among publics for the combination of its founders, its architecture, its age, its quality education, including its professional schools, and its strong connections with Ivies.

What "connections with Ivies"? It's a state school.

Wasn’t there some informal connection between UVA & Princeton? Woodrow Wilson & all that? Something about Princeton being the farthest south of the prestigious Northeastern colleges, & therefore being more inclined than the others to deal with UVA?

uh. no. Wilson attended UVA for law. Want to try that assertion again with facts?

Your post makes no sense.

DP. Makes sense to me

Nobody said Wilson didn’t go to UVA for Law School. The issue was a connection between UVA & Ivies. PP pointed out a connection, Wilson. Wilson went to Princeton undergrad. He presumably could have gone to Harvard or Yale for law, but went to UVA.

Wilson was at UVA for one semester.

False. he entered UVA law on 1879 and left in his second year necause he was spurned by his cousin Hattie. He finished reading law on his ownnand ultimately practiced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA is unique among publics for the combination of its founders, its architecture, its age, its quality education, including its professional schools, and its strong connections with Ivies.

What "connections with Ivies"? It's a state school.

Wasn’t there some informal connection between UVA & Princeton? Woodrow Wilson & all that? Something about Princeton being the farthest south of the prestigious Northeastern colleges, & therefore being more inclined than the others to deal with UVA?

uh. no. Wilson attended UVA for law. Want to try that assertion again with facts?

Your post makes no sense.

DP. Makes sense to me

Nobody said Wilson didn’t go to UVA for Law School. The issue was a connection between UVA & Ivies. PP pointed out a connection, Wilson. Wilson went to Princeton undergrad. He presumably could have gone to Harvard or Yale for law, but went to UVA.

Wilson was at UVA for one semester.

False. he entered UVA law on 1879 and left in his second year necause he was spurned by his cousin Hattie. He finished reading law on his ownnand ultimately practiced.

He got sick, didn't attend the second semester and then withdrew without attending any of the second year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA was not a big deal when I went to college in 1997.

Agent Starling bragged about going there though.

I went to high school in Massachusetts in the 1970s & the first thing that made me aware of UVA was that the Kennedys sent two of their dimmer bulbs to its law school. Decades ago I assumed that meant its law school was good, but now I think they probably attended because they could make some DC connections & sow a ton of wild oats without offending anyone of importance.

Nevertheless, today UVA law is ranked no 4. UVA undergrad is ranked 24 in the nation for all schools and no. 4 best public university.

The 4th best public based on metrics that favor what UVA is good at: producing unintellectual finance bros. UVA is not a leader in higher education, its PhDs fair horribly on the market, and undergraduate research is shoddy and baseless given the lack of notable faculty across disciplines (UVA has a low ranking history and math department, for example)

Sources, please.

Bruh. Just look at the UNSWR department rankings. History=30s, math=40s, any language that exists other than English=unranked, engineering=30/, philosophy=unranked. Was not an AAU founding member, and not admitted until 1923 (IU joined more than a decade before it).

Notice how almost all of UVA’s alumni before 1950 earn undergrad or graduate L.L.Bs

That my friends is a trade school

UVA is a highly ranked and well respected school. Deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA was not a big deal when I went to college in 1997.

Agent Starling bragged about going there though.

I went to high school in Massachusetts in the 1970s & the first thing that made me aware of UVA was that the Kennedys sent two of their dimmer bulbs to its law school. Decades ago I assumed that meant its law school was good, but now I think they probably attended because they could make some DC connections & sow a ton of wild oats without offending anyone of importance.

Nevertheless, today UVA law is ranked no 4. UVA undergrad is ranked 24 in the nation for all schools and no. 4 best public university.

The 4th best public based on metrics that favor what UVA is good at: producing unintellectual finance bros. UVA is not a leader in higher education, its PhDs fair horribly on the market, and undergraduate research is shoddy and baseless given the lack of notable faculty across disciplines (UVA has a low ranking history and math department, for example)

Sources, please.

Bruh. Just look at the UNSWR department rankings. History=30s, math=40s, any language that exists other than English=unranked, engineering=30/, philosophy=unranked. Was not an AAU founding member, and not admitted until 1923 (IU joined more than a decade before it).

Notice how almost all of UVA’s alumni before 1950 earn undergrad or graduate L.L.Bs

That my friends is a trade school

UVA is a highly ranked and well respected school. Deal with it.

TRUTH