Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
The person who started this thread has a daughter who doesn't like math. For some reason, with the tenacity of a shark you've clamped down hard on math pedagogy and are now insisting on mathsplaining to us all, for pages and pages, why IB is inferior, especially regional programs.
I understand that you have genuine, obsessive questions about AB Calculus, questions that seem to have more to do with you explaining to us that you've taken it than anything relevant to us.
Some people are math people, PP. There's no shame in that. From your narrow perspective, you probably wonder why we're all still talking at all since you've shown us how wrong we all are. Why don't we concede the point and agree with you? From your perspective, what you've said is a proved therom. It's done. Finito.
But let me posit my own therom: you may think writing is easy because you never learned to read.
We’re discussing some aspects of IB and some poster linked to the RMIB with MVC, AP calculus etc.
I agree with you that writing is important, although not sure the type of writing done in the IB program is that good at preparing a student for college. I looked up some math theory of knowledge essays and they are really underwhelming, not sure they are representative, but essentially they are in a humanities format about a mathematical topic. Maybe other places better prepare the students for this task.
What I believe is missing from a high school education is how to write a technical exposition that most people do in their job. for example collect some data, present it in a visual format, interpret and discuss it, draw some conclusions, do some background research to give context, use logic, mathematical equations, and sentences to make a coherent argument. Most recent college grads that I see at my work don’t know how to do this, although they’ve been hammered for years with the five paragraph format. Professional writing is different, the language needs to be more precise, clarity is very important and is a more complex task in general because you need to integrate different types of information.
When I say it’s easier to learn how to write is because from my experience you can take a fresh grad with solid background and teach them how to write with some guidance, but if the technical background is weak they usually are a lost cause.
I think the better preparation and exposure for this type of writing is to do an internship or volunteer and participate in writing a report or a paper.
Interning and participating in research is something many people do. In college. Are you dunning MCPS for not offering its high school students enough internships? Sad that the NIH doesn't want more of them to co-author papers?
If so that is... An opinion.
The true purpose of your post seems to be to present yourself as an expert among laymen, to emphasize to us all how important your job is, and how this makes you an authority on the International Bacc, although you have not taken it or had a child who took it. I'm sure you're quite distinguished in your field and have the best of intentions, but, as with science, perhaps you should defer, at least in part, to people with experience in the field.
DP. Yeah, I'm a bit confused about that myself. As far as I can tell, this PP
-hasn't done the IB Program
-doesn't have a child who did the IB Program
-hasn't taught in the IB Program
-nonetheless has very strong opinions about the failings of the IB program
I see you’re confused but that has probably something to do with you not being that bright. By your silly argument, nobody ever should have an opinion about anything unless they’ve personally experienced it.
dp.. You have no clue what/how the writing is taught yet you have opinions about it.
I bet if someone opined about something that you have experience with but others don't, you'd tell them, "You aren't too bright to have an opinion about something you have never experienced."
I worked with a guy who didn't have kids, yet he had endless amounts of opinions on how to parent and would share those opinions with those of us who had kids. He thought he was so smart and was full of himself. You sound like that guy.
You aren't too bright yourself. Maybe stop posting your uninformed opinions.
Bolded is proof that writing is not your strongest suit. But hey, your kid was in the IB program and that makes you an expert.
Logic isn’t your strong suit either. I actually researched the program for my kid and decided it was not a good fit for the reasons I outlined above. Some people might find those arguments useful if they consider that choice. Then you’re whining that whatever I say is not valid because I don’t put my kid through the program.
I can research a car, but without ever test driving it, I really don't know what it's like to drive the car. But, I'm more likely to take the opinion of someone who test drove the car than someone who only researched about it.
My kid at least learned some critical thinking skills in their IBDP. So, yea, my kid and I are more of an expert on the IBDP than you are.
Test driving a car and attending a school are vastly different in terms of opportunity cost. You can’t do two programs at the same time for a direct comparison and the sample size is usually very small.
Of course you’ll talk to people that went through the program, visit the school, talk to the teachers, and do the same for the alternatives under consideration. You also need to do your own research, like a course catalogue, syllabus, typical course sequence, college admission outcomes to ultimately evaluate if it’s a good fit for your student.
Not sure why when someone points a potential negative aspect of the IB, people react so negatively and take it so personally, it’s almost cult like. I have no problem if someone criticizes the AP or DE route my child followed, as with everything, each have their strengths and weaknesses.
Pointing out negatives of the program is fine, if you have experience with it. I will admit to some negatives. But, you opined about the writing, something your research would not give you much information about. That's why I called you out.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
I see what you did, there. Sure, you're pedantic, but you're not the pedantic-termed poster who talked about reasonable equivalence among IBs to whom the PP was replying.
With blithe discussion of MVC/DE/LA on the one hand and reference to dual enrollment on the other, a reader might think that MCPS provides that equivalence, when, in reality, there is a different burden on students taking those courses via dual enrollment versus those provided them in house. Of course, that's talking about particularly advanced math students, however they might have found themselves there.
Sure, those students may have the breadth of interest to pursue an IB experience. Indeed, APs and other college-level courses, when accessible, can provide more than the academics needed for IB. However, there are plenty with that breadth, but perhaps not quite that depth in math, for whom access to HL IB Analysis (or it's equivalent, providing a solid calc foundation along with, gasp!, stats -- quite useful to the vast majority, but often pooh-pooh'd by hard-science/engineering/math-or-nothing folks) should not be in question.
But it is, isn't it?
The discussion isn't just about math, and it didn't start off that way, either. It moved that direction because of an observation about course availability differences among the MCPS IBs.
If they were all the same, few would be so interested in RMIB (some applying with the intention to go only if they don't get into SMCS, though a few schools may offer higher local options for math) when there are closer options. OP's interest for their DC is a case in point, highlighted by insights provided by a number of posters, including those with good information about the changes that are part of standing up the regional IBs.
Those will take time, and dedication by MCPS, to achieve that equivalence (if that is, indeed, the aim; it would be easy to cast a jaundiced eye and see it as better enabling pearl clutchers by providing bread & circuses to others if they aren't immediate and strong with that dedication to meeting all students where they are). In the meantime, families should have a clear idea of the choices and the differences among them.
As an editor, I find it hard to imagine your own high school English teacher being okay with your Byzantine sentences. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm sure you write an excellent RFP, or white paper, or brief, or whatever professional document is within your profession, but the opacity of your argument obscures it.
You are obsessed with an "equity" you have yet to prove doesn't exist, or ever can exist, and advanced math, which you like to remind us (again), is a topic that interests you, although, (again), it did not interest the original poster's DD.
IB isn't the right program for every student. Obviously, it is not a program you like. I don't know if you're the teacher forced to teach it (I remember someone like that from one thread), or a parent whose kid didn't get into RMIB, or a parent who just thinks SMAC is better... and I don't care because it's not relevant. But I wish, whatever point you're trying to make, it was more clear. Are you saying that it will take time for MCPS to sort out its IB programs? Sure. Are you saying that more people are interested in RMIB than the regionals? Again, sure. People are sheep. They want the proven entity, the sure thing, the scarce, competitive thing. Look at you and your affection for Blair's STEM program.
But there are lids for every pot, and having more lids and more pots doesn't have to take anything away from *your* stove... so why are you so critical about academics you haven't experienced?
Please look at the just-past post. Whether due to complexity of writing or inattentive reading, you've conflated:
"Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others. Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
with:
"IB isn't all that. Better, higher-level math is available."
No, I wasn't conflating those two posts at all. The second one, I don't agree, but the writing is concise and the opinion is quite clear.
The first one, (presumably written by you),
Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others.
You've never proven the programs are unequal. You didn't even know the regional ones had applications until we told you.
Except that you are, once again, conflating. I was not the poster who didn't know about regional IBs.
You based the idea that regional programs are inferior on some fuzzy hand waving about the math classes that are offered. Never mind that several people chimed in from regionals and said those math classes are offered.
No, I base it on my conversations with MCPS admins, school principals, parents at PTA meetings and IB program coordinators over the past two to three years. There's a ton of hedging on the MCPS side, but it comes down to, "No, it doesn't get offered if we don't think there is enough 'community pull' for it." It may be offered some places at some times, but not consistently enough not to leave interested students without a large enough cohort (generally, outside the countywide RMIB magnet and, apparently, B-CC) out in the cold. And the response, there, is typically a platitudinous, "Don't worry, your child will be fine." :roll:
Others have chimed in with their own anecdotes, and I don't doubt their personal experiences, but nobody directly answered whether all the courses offered at RMIB are equivalently avaialble to any IB student at the other IB schools. I'm guessing this may be because they can't -- MCPS does a terrible job of allowing detailed comparison -- and relying on my conversations to maintain that it isn't so until relly shown otherwise.
You throw in the point that there aren't enough seats. One assumes you mean at RMIB. My own inference here is your child did not get into RMIB and you did not want to send them to a regional program. Given that framework, I understand your opinion... and you.
RMIB, but most criteria-based programs, too. Your inference is not correct -- don't set up another strawman -- and if you understand me, othwrwise, you appear not to address the issue as though you do.
Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
You throw in some platitudes here about equity, although it's not at all clear what kind of equity you're talking about. I assume broad equity is socioeconomic and cultural? And narrow equity is... just for IB classes and mostly math?
In this case, broad is, within a school system, meeting students where they are/where they can be without differences based on a large number of demographic factors, specifically including zip code within that system. Narrow is picking one or a very few of those demographic factors on which to base an evaluation of just provision of services.
You want Montgomery County to offer every student at every school the same classes? That would be terrific, although sadly too late for my kid who got waitlisted for VAC and had to take IB Art because their school had no VAC. How will we be paying for that? And will they offer classes in alchemical sorcery too?
Unless it's specifically constrained to limited-duration pilots, which are often necessary to evaluate programs before roll-out, MCPS should be allocating resources best to ensure that students at each school (or within each catchment, if magnets can properly and equitably serve well-identified populations) have similar educational experience opportunities. The exact same class may be too difficult in some cases and not desired in others, but when we talk about something like IB, then, yes, access to HL shouldn't be something families and students even have to question, no matter where they are.
MCPS magnets haven't grown in proportion to the student population. Opening regionals and aiming to serve the population with local programs is a fine strategy, but only if it provides that broad equity. We shouldn't be allocating resources that reinforce differences that reflect opportunity.
<aside: Alchemical Sorcery doesn't hold a candle to Silmaril Studies.>
We share an opinion that challenging more students is good.
Glad for that. Hope there's more we share.
Different poster, but you should have done this research before enrolling your child in his current program. Of course you can’t have an absolute uniform educational experience across all schools in the district. That’s the point for the existence of magnets, to select students that are stronger academically so they can be served through differentiated coursework that wouldn’t be feasible resource wise to be provided at non-magnet schools.
You’d have to be more specific to why it’s unfair and not equitable to your child. If it’s just that HL analysis is not offered, do they have the option to take HL approaches, or all math is SL? Is AP statistics and Calculus an option? Really, you should have looked into the course offering beforehand, that’s quite obvious.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
The person who started this thread has a daughter who doesn't like math. For some reason, with the tenacity of a shark you've clamped down hard on math pedagogy and are now insisting on mathsplaining to us all, for pages and pages, why IB is inferior, especially regional programs.
I understand that you have genuine, obsessive questions about AB Calculus, questions that seem to have more to do with you explaining to us that you've taken it than anything relevant to us.
Some people are math people, PP. There's no shame in that. From your narrow perspective, you probably wonder why we're all still talking at all since you've shown us how wrong we all are. Why don't we concede the point and agree with you? From your perspective, what you've said is a proved therom. It's done. Finito.
But let me posit my own therom: you may think writing is easy because you never learned to read.
We’re discussing some aspects of IB and some poster linked to the RMIB with MVC, AP calculus etc.
I agree with you that writing is important, although not sure the type of writing done in the IB program is that good at preparing a student for college. I looked up some math theory of knowledge essays and they are really underwhelming, not sure they are representative, but essentially they are in a humanities format about a mathematical topic. Maybe other places better prepare the students for this task.
What I believe is missing from a high school education is how to write a technical exposition that most people do in their job. for example collect some data, present it in a visual format, interpret and discuss it, draw some conclusions, do some background research to give context, use logic, mathematical equations, and sentences to make a coherent argument. Most recent college grads that I see at my work don’t know how to do this, although they’ve been hammered for years with the five paragraph format. Professional writing is different, the language needs to be more precise, clarity is very important and is a more complex task in general because you need to integrate different types of information.
When I say it’s easier to learn how to write is because from my experience you can take a fresh grad with solid background and teach them how to write with some guidance, but if the technical background is weak they usually are a lost cause.
I think the better preparation and exposure for this type of writing is to do an internship or volunteer and participate in writing a report or a paper.
Interning and participating in research is something many people do. In college. Are you dunning MCPS for not offering its high school students enough internships? Sad that the NIH doesn't want more of them to co-author papers?
If so that is... An opinion.
The true purpose of your post seems to be to present yourself as an expert among laymen, to emphasize to us all how important your job is, and how this makes you an authority on the International Bacc, although you have not taken it or had a child who took it. I'm sure you're quite distinguished in your field and have the best of intentions, but, as with science, perhaps you should defer, at least in part, to people with experience in the field.
DP. Yeah, I'm a bit confused about that myself. As far as I can tell, this PP
-hasn't done the IB Program
-doesn't have a child who did the IB Program
-hasn't taught in the IB Program
-nonetheless has very strong opinions about the failings of the IB program
I see you’re confused but that has probably something to do with you not being that bright. By your silly argument, nobody ever should have an opinion about anything unless they’ve personally experienced it.
dp.. You have no clue what/how the writing is taught yet you have opinions about it.
I bet if someone opined about something that you have experience with but others don't, you'd tell them, "You aren't too bright to have an opinion about something you have never experienced."
I worked with a guy who didn't have kids, yet he had endless amounts of opinions on how to parent and would share those opinions with those of us who had kids. He thought he was so smart and was full of himself. You sound like that guy.
You aren't too bright yourself. Maybe stop posting your uninformed opinions.
Bolded is proof that writing is not your strongest suit. But hey, your kid was in the IB program and that makes you an expert.
Logic isn’t your strong suit either. I actually researched the program for my kid and decided it was not a good fit for the reasons I outlined above. Some people might find those arguments useful if they consider that choice. Then you’re whining that whatever I say is not valid because I don’t put my kid through the program.
I can research a car, but without ever test driving it, I really don't know what it's like to drive the car. But, I'm more likely to take the opinion of someone who test drove the car than someone who only researched about it.
My kid at least learned some critical thinking skills in their IBDP. So, yea, my kid and I are more of an expert on the IBDP than you are.
Test driving a car and attending a school are vastly different in terms of opportunity cost. You can’t do two programs at the same time for a direct comparison and the sample size is usually very small.
Of course you’ll talk to people that went through the program, visit the school, talk to the teachers, and do the same for the alternatives under consideration. You also need to do your own research, like a course catalogue, syllabus, typical course sequence, college admission outcomes to ultimately evaluate if it’s a good fit for your student.
Not sure why when someone points a potential negative aspect of the IB, people react so negatively and take it so personally, it’s almost cult like. I have no problem if someone criticizes the AP or DE route my child followed, as with everything, each have their strengths and weaknesses.
Pointing out negatives of the program is fine, if you have experience with it. I will admit to some negatives. But, you opined about the writing, something your research would not give you much information about. That's why I called you out.
See, you’re doing it again!
Pointing out negatives of the program is fine, if you have experience with it.
You don’t need to be an IB graduate to point out that the program is rigid, and as others mentioned that the course offering is not uniform or always rigorous.
You don’t need to have written an extended essay to look up a few examples online to evaluate them. Personal opinion, but they don’t seem to indicate an amazing writing program that’s significantly different from the type or writing in other advanced high school classes.
Your only qualification to have an opinion is that your kid went through the program. Maybe you should be as critical with your own qualifications as you are with mine.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
The person who started this thread has a daughter who doesn't like math. For some reason, with the tenacity of a shark you've clamped down hard on math pedagogy and are now insisting on mathsplaining to us all, for pages and pages, why IB is inferior, especially regional programs.
I understand that you have genuine, obsessive questions about AB Calculus, questions that seem to have more to do with you explaining to us that you've taken it than anything relevant to us.
Some people are math people, PP. There's no shame in that. From your narrow perspective, you probably wonder why we're all still talking at all since you've shown us how wrong we all are. Why don't we concede the point and agree with you? From your perspective, what you've said is a proved therom. It's done. Finito.
But let me posit my own therom: you may think writing is easy because you never learned to read.
We’re discussing some aspects of IB and some poster linked to the RMIB with MVC, AP calculus etc.
I agree with you that writing is important, although not sure the type of writing done in the IB program is that good at preparing a student for college. I looked up some math theory of knowledge essays and they are really underwhelming, not sure they are representative, but essentially they are in a humanities format about a mathematical topic. Maybe other places better prepare the students for this task.
What I believe is missing from a high school education is how to write a technical exposition that most people do in their job. for example collect some data, present it in a visual format, interpret and discuss it, draw some conclusions, do some background research to give context, use logic, mathematical equations, and sentences to make a coherent argument. Most recent college grads that I see at my work don’t know how to do this, although they’ve been hammered for years with the five paragraph format. Professional writing is different, the language needs to be more precise, clarity is very important and is a more complex task in general because you need to integrate different types of information.
When I say it’s easier to learn how to write is because from my experience you can take a fresh grad with solid background and teach them how to write with some guidance, but if the technical background is weak they usually are a lost cause.
I think the better preparation and exposure for this type of writing is to do an internship or volunteer and participate in writing a report or a paper.
Interning and participating in research is something many people do. In college. Are you dunning MCPS for not offering its high school students enough internships? Sad that the NIH doesn't want more of them to co-author papers?
If so that is... An opinion.
The true purpose of your post seems to be to present yourself as an expert among laymen, to emphasize to us all how important your job is, and how this makes you an authority on the International Bacc, although you have not taken it or had a child who took it. I'm sure you're quite distinguished in your field and have the best of intentions, but, as with science, perhaps you should defer, at least in part, to people with experience in the field.
DP. Yeah, I'm a bit confused about that myself. As far as I can tell, this PP
-hasn't done the IB Program
-doesn't have a child who did the IB Program
-hasn't taught in the IB Program
-nonetheless has very strong opinions about the failings of the IB program
I see you’re confused but that has probably something to do with you not being that bright. By your silly argument, nobody ever should have an opinion about anything unless they’ve personally experienced it.
dp.. You have no clue what/how the writing is taught yet you have opinions about it.
I bet if someone opined about something that you have experience with but others don't, you'd tell them, "You aren't too bright to have an opinion about something you have never experienced."
I worked with a guy who didn't have kids, yet he had endless amounts of opinions on how to parent and would share those opinions with those of us who had kids. He thought he was so smart and was full of himself. You sound like that guy.
You aren't too bright yourself. Maybe stop posting your uninformed opinions.
Bolded is proof that writing is not your strongest suit. But hey, your kid was in the IB program and that makes you an expert.
Logic isn’t your strong suit either. I actually researched the program for my kid and decided it was not a good fit for the reasons I outlined above. Some people might find those arguments useful if they consider that choice. Then you’re whining that whatever I say is not valid because I don’t put my kid through the program.
I can research a car, but without ever test driving it, I really don't know what it's like to drive the car. But, I'm more likely to take the opinion of someone who test drove the car than someone who only researched about it.
My kid at least learned some critical thinking skills in their IBDP. So, yea, my kid and I are more of an expert on the IBDP than you are.
Test driving a car and attending a school are vastly different in terms of opportunity cost. You can’t do two programs at the same time for a direct comparison and the sample size is usually very small.
Of course you’ll talk to people that went through the program, visit the school, talk to the teachers, and do the same for the alternatives under consideration. You also need to do your own research, like a course catalogue, syllabus, typical course sequence, college admission outcomes to ultimately evaluate if it’s a good fit for your student.
Not sure why when someone points a potential negative aspect of the IB, people react so negatively and take it so personally, it’s almost cult like. I have no problem if someone criticizes the AP or DE route my child followed, as with everything, each have their strengths and weaknesses.
Pointing out negatives of the program is fine, if you have experience with it. I will admit to some negatives. But, you opined about the writing, something your research would not give you much information about. That's why I called you out.
See, you’re doing it again!
Pointing out negatives of the program is fine, if you have experience with it.
You don’t need to be an IB graduate to point out that the program is rigid, and as others mentioned that the course offering is not uniform or always rigorous.
You don’t need to have written an extended essay to look up a few examples online to evaluate them. Personal opinion, but they don’t seem to indicate an amazing writing program that’s significantly different from the type or writing in other advanced high school classes.
Your only qualification to have an opinion is that your kid went through the program. Maybe you should be as critical with your own qualifications as you are with mine.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
The person who started this thread has a daughter who doesn't like math. For some reason, with the tenacity of a shark you've clamped down hard on math pedagogy and are now insisting on mathsplaining to us all, for pages and pages, why IB is inferior, especially regional programs.
I understand that you have genuine, obsessive questions about AB Calculus, questions that seem to have more to do with you explaining to us that you've taken it than anything relevant to us.
Some people are math people, PP. There's no shame in that. From your narrow perspective, you probably wonder why we're all still talking at all since you've shown us how wrong we all are. Why don't we concede the point and agree with you? From your perspective, what you've said is a proved therom. It's done. Finito.
But let me posit my own therom: you may think writing is easy because you never learned to read.
We’re discussing some aspects of IB and some poster linked to the RMIB with MVC, AP calculus etc.
I agree with you that writing is important, although not sure the type of writing done in the IB program is that good at preparing a student for college. I looked up some math theory of knowledge essays and they are really underwhelming, not sure they are representative, but essentially they are in a humanities format about a mathematical topic. Maybe other places better prepare the students for this task.
What I believe is missing from a high school education is how to write a technical exposition that most people do in their job. for example collect some data, present it in a visual format, interpret and discuss it, draw some conclusions, do some background research to give context, use logic, mathematical equations, and sentences to make a coherent argument. Most recent college grads that I see at my work don’t know how to do this, although they’ve been hammered for years with the five paragraph format. Professional writing is different, the language needs to be more precise, clarity is very important and is a more complex task in general because you need to integrate different types of information.
When I say it’s easier to learn how to write is because from my experience you can take a fresh grad with solid background and teach them how to write with some guidance, but if the technical background is weak they usually are a lost cause.
I think the better preparation and exposure for this type of writing is to do an internship or volunteer and participate in writing a report or a paper.
Interning and participating in research is something many people do. In college. Are you dunning MCPS for not offering its high school students enough internships? Sad that the NIH doesn't want more of them to co-author papers?
If so that is... An opinion.
The true purpose of your post seems to be to present yourself as an expert among laymen, to emphasize to us all how important your job is, and how this makes you an authority on the International Bacc, although you have not taken it or had a child who took it. I'm sure you're quite distinguished in your field and have the best of intentions, but, as with science, perhaps you should defer, at least in part, to people with experience in the field.
DP. Yeah, I'm a bit confused about that myself. As far as I can tell, this PP
-hasn't done the IB Program
-doesn't have a child who did the IB Program
-hasn't taught in the IB Program
-nonetheless has very strong opinions about the failings of the IB program
I see you’re confused but that has probably something to do with you not being that bright. By your silly argument, nobody ever should have an opinion about anything unless they’ve personally experienced it.
dp.. You have no clue what/how the writing is taught yet you have opinions about it.
I bet if someone opined about something that you have experience with but others don't, you'd tell them, "You aren't too bright to have an opinion about something you have never experienced."
I worked with a guy who didn't have kids, yet he had endless amounts of opinions on how to parent and would share those opinions with those of us who had kids. He thought he was so smart and was full of himself. You sound like that guy.
You aren't too bright yourself. Maybe stop posting your uninformed opinions.
Bolded is proof that writing is not your strongest suit. But hey, your kid was in the IB program and that makes you an expert.
Logic isn’t your strong suit either. I actually researched the program for my kid and decided it was not a good fit for the reasons I outlined above. Some people might find those arguments useful if they consider that choice. Then you’re whining that whatever I say is not valid because I don’t put my kid through the program.
I can research a car, but without ever test driving it, I really don't know what it's like to drive the car. But, I'm more likely to take the opinion of someone who test drove the car than someone who only researched about it.
My kid at least learned some critical thinking skills in their IBDP. So, yea, my kid and I are more of an expert on the IBDP than you are.
Test driving a car and attending a school are vastly different in terms of opportunity cost. You can’t do two programs at the same time for a direct comparison and the sample size is usually very small.
Of course you’ll talk to people that went through the program, visit the school, talk to the teachers, and do the same for the alternatives under consideration. You also need to do your own research, like a course catalogue, syllabus, typical course sequence, college admission outcomes to ultimately evaluate if it’s a good fit for your student.
Not sure why when someone points a potential negative aspect of the IB, people react so negatively and take it so personally, it’s almost cult like. I have no problem if someone criticizes the AP or DE route my child followed, as with everything, each have their strengths and weaknesses.
Pointing out negatives of the program is fine, if you have experience with it. I will admit to some negatives. But, you opined about the writing, something your research would not give you much information about. That's why I called you out.
See, you’re doing it again!
Pointing out negatives of the program is fine, if you have experience with it.
You don’t need to be an IB graduate to point out that the program is rigid, and as others mentioned that the course offering is not uniform or always rigorous.
You don’t need to have written an extended essay to look up a few examples online to evaluate them. Personal opinion, but they don’t seem to indicate an amazing writing program that’s significantly different from the type or writing in other advanced high school classes.
Your only qualification to have an opinion is that your kid went through the program. Maybe you should be as critical with your own qualifications as you are with mine.
You are judging an entire program's writing curriculum based on a handful of EEs you read.
Since my kid went through the program, and my kid thought it was a good program even for a STEM kid, I would say my kid's opinions weigh more than yours.
I know several kids who went through IDBP who are STEM majors.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
I see what you did, there. Sure, you're pedantic, but you're not the pedantic-termed poster who talked about reasonable equivalence among IBs to whom the PP was replying.
With blithe discussion of MVC/DE/LA on the one hand and reference to dual enrollment on the other, a reader might think that MCPS provides that equivalence, when, in reality, there is a different burden on students taking those courses via dual enrollment versus those provided them in house. Of course, that's talking about particularly advanced math students, however they might have found themselves there.
Sure, those students may have the breadth of interest to pursue an IB experience. Indeed, APs and other college-level courses, when accessible, can provide more than the academics needed for IB. However, there are plenty with that breadth, but perhaps not quite that depth in math, for whom access to HL IB Analysis (or it's equivalent, providing a solid calc foundation along with, gasp!, stats -- quite useful to the vast majority, but often pooh-pooh'd by hard-science/engineering/math-or-nothing folks) should not be in question.
But it is, isn't it?
The discussion isn't just about math, and it didn't start off that way, either. It moved that direction because of an observation about course availability differences among the MCPS IBs.
If they were all the same, few would be so interested in RMIB (some applying with the intention to go only if they don't get into SMCS, though a few schools may offer higher local options for math) when there are closer options. OP's interest for their DC is a case in point, highlighted by insights provided by a number of posters, including those with good information about the changes that are part of standing up the regional IBs.
Those will take time, and dedication by MCPS, to achieve that equivalence (if that is, indeed, the aim; it would be easy to cast a jaundiced eye and see it as better enabling pearl clutchers by providing bread & circuses to others if they aren't immediate and strong with that dedication to meeting all students where they are). In the meantime, families should have a clear idea of the choices and the differences among them.
As an editor, I find it hard to imagine your own high school English teacher being okay with your Byzantine sentences. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm sure you write an excellent RFP, or white paper, or brief, or whatever professional document is within your profession, but the opacity of your argument obscures it.
You are obsessed with an "equity" you have yet to prove doesn't exist, or ever can exist, and advanced math, which you like to remind us (again), is a topic that interests you, although, (again), it did not interest the original poster's DD.
IB isn't the right program for every student. Obviously, it is not a program you like. I don't know if you're the teacher forced to teach it (I remember someone like that from one thread), or a parent whose kid didn't get into RMIB, or a parent who just thinks SMAC is better... and I don't care because it's not relevant. But I wish, whatever point you're trying to make, it was more clear. Are you saying that it will take time for MCPS to sort out its IB programs? Sure. Are you saying that more people are interested in RMIB than the regionals? Again, sure. People are sheep. They want the proven entity, the sure thing, the scarce, competitive thing. Look at you and your affection for Blair's STEM program.
But there are lids for every pot, and having more lids and more pots doesn't have to take anything away from *your* stove... so why are you so critical about academics you haven't experienced?
Please look at the just-past post. Whether due to complexity of writing or inattentive reading, you've conflated:
"Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others. Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
with:
"IB isn't all that. Better, higher-level math is available."
No, I wasn't conflating those two posts at all. The second one, I don't agree, but the writing is concise and the opinion is quite clear.
The first one, (presumably written by you),
Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others.
You've never proven the programs are unequal. You didn't even know the regional ones had applications until we told you.
Except that you are, once again, conflating. I was not the poster who didn't know about regional IBs.
You based the idea that regional programs are inferior on some fuzzy hand waving about the math classes that are offered. Never mind that several people chimed in from regionals and said those math classes are offered.
No, I base it on my conversations with MCPS admins, school principals, parents at PTA meetings and IB program coordinators over the past two to three years. There's a ton of hedging on the MCPS side, but it comes down to, "No, it doesn't get offered if we don't think there is enough 'community pull' for it." It may be offered some places at some times, but not consistently enough not to leave interested students without a large enough cohort (generally, outside the countywide RMIB magnet and, apparently, B-CC) out in the cold. And the response, there, is typically a platitudinous, "Don't worry, your child will be fine." :roll:
Others have chimed in with their own anecdotes, and I don't doubt their personal experiences, but nobody directly answered whether all the courses offered at RMIB are equivalently avaialble to any IB student at the other IB schools. I'm guessing this may be because they can't -- MCPS does a terrible job of allowing detailed comparison -- and relying on my conversations to maintain that it isn't so until relly shown otherwise.
You throw in the point that there aren't enough seats. One assumes you mean at RMIB. My own inference here is your child did not get into RMIB and you did not want to send them to a regional program. Given that framework, I understand your opinion... and you.
RMIB, but most criteria-based programs, too. Your inference is not correct -- don't set up another strawman -- and if you understand me, othwrwise, you appear not to address the issue as though you do.
Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
You throw in some platitudes here about equity, although it's not at all clear what kind of equity you're talking about. I assume broad equity is socioeconomic and cultural? And narrow equity is... just for IB classes and mostly math?
In this case, broad is, within a school system, meeting students where they are/where they can be without differences based on a large number of demographic factors, specifically including zip code within that system. Narrow is picking one or a very few of those demographic factors on which to base an evaluation of just provision of services.
You want Montgomery County to offer every student at every school the same classes? That would be terrific, although sadly too late for my kid who got waitlisted for VAC and had to take IB Art because their school had no VAC. How will we be paying for that? And will they offer classes in alchemical sorcery too?
Unless it's specifically constrained to limited-duration pilots, which are often necessary to evaluate programs before roll-out, MCPS should be allocating resources best to ensure that students at each school (or within each catchment, if magnets can properly and equitably serve well-identified populations) have similar educational experience opportunities. The exact same class may be too difficult in some cases and not desired in others, but when we talk about something like IB, then, yes, access to HL shouldn't be something families and students even have to question, no matter where they are.
MCPS magnets haven't grown in proportion to the student population. Opening regionals and aiming to serve the population with local programs is a fine strategy, but only if it provides that broad equity. We shouldn't be allocating resources that reinforce differences that reflect opportunity.
<aside: Alchemical Sorcery doesn't hold a candle to Silmaril Studies.>
We share an opinion that challenging more students is good.
Glad for that. Hope there's more we share.
Different poster, but you should have done this research before enrolling your child in his current program. Of course you can’t have an absolute uniform educational experience across all schools in the district. That’s the point for the existence of magnets, to select students that are stronger academically so they can be served through differentiated coursework that wouldn’t be feasible resource wise to be provided at non-magnet schools.
You’d have to be more specific to why it’s unfair and not equitable to your child. If it’s just that HL analysis is not offered, do they have the option to take HL approaches, or all math is SL? Is AP statistics and Calculus an option? Really, you should have looked into the course offering beforehand, that’s quite obvious.
Aaaand...we have, yet again, a poster who is reading something that is not there. I just mentioned to the prior poster that the inference that my child "didn't get in" was wrong. Why try to make it personal when the observations apply to MCPS in general? It amounts to another straw man.
It also isn't about the existence of magnets. Magnets are one approach to meeting students where they are.
It's about failing to provide for reasonable equivalence of that or other non-standard programming across the large student population equitably and with fidelity. For IB, that includes when someone at a regional, with a roughly equivalent profile to those selected for the too-few-seats countywide magnet, is informed that a HL class won't be offered at their school, while it is at the countywide magnet and, perhaps, certain others to which they do not have access based on their place of residence.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
The person who started this thread has a daughter who doesn't like math. For some reason, with the tenacity of a shark you've clamped down hard on math pedagogy and are now insisting on mathsplaining to us all, for pages and pages, why IB is inferior, especially regional programs.
I understand that you have genuine, obsessive questions about AB Calculus, questions that seem to have more to do with you explaining to us that you've taken it than anything relevant to us.
Some people are math people, PP. There's no shame in that. From your narrow perspective, you probably wonder why we're all still talking at all since you've shown us how wrong we all are. Why don't we concede the point and agree with you? From your perspective, what you've said is a proved therom. It's done. Finito.
But let me posit my own therom: you may think writing is easy because you never learned to read.
We’re discussing some aspects of IB and some poster linked to the RMIB with MVC, AP calculus etc.
I agree with you that writing is important, although not sure the type of writing done in the IB program is that good at preparing a student for college. I looked up some math theory of knowledge essays and they are really underwhelming, not sure they are representative, but essentially they are in a humanities format about a mathematical topic. Maybe other places better prepare the students for this task.
What I believe is missing from a high school education is how to write a technical exposition that most people do in their job. for example collect some data, present it in a visual format, interpret and discuss it, draw some conclusions, do some background research to give context, use logic, mathematical equations, and sentences to make a coherent argument. Most recent college grads that I see at my work don’t know how to do this, although they’ve been hammered for years with the five paragraph format. Professional writing is different, the language needs to be more precise, clarity is very important and is a more complex task in general because you need to integrate different types of information.
When I say it’s easier to learn how to write is because from my experience you can take a fresh grad with solid background and teach them how to write with some guidance, but if the technical background is weak they usually are a lost cause.
I think the better preparation and exposure for this type of writing is to do an internship or volunteer and participate in writing a report or a paper.
Interning and participating in research is something many people do. In college. Are you dunning MCPS for not offering its high school students enough internships? Sad that the NIH doesn't want more of them to co-author papers?
If so that is... An opinion.
The true purpose of your post seems to be to present yourself as an expert among laymen, to emphasize to us all how important your job is, and how this makes you an authority on the International Bacc, although you have not taken it or had a child who took it. I'm sure you're quite distinguished in your field and have the best of intentions, but, as with science, perhaps you should defer, at least in part, to people with experience in the field.
DP. Yeah, I'm a bit confused about that myself. As far as I can tell, this PP
-hasn't done the IB Program
-doesn't have a child who did the IB Program
-hasn't taught in the IB Program
-nonetheless has very strong opinions about the failings of the IB program
I see you’re confused but that has probably something to do with you not being that bright. By your silly argument, nobody ever should have an opinion about anything unless they’ve personally experienced it.
dp.. You have no clue what/how the writing is taught yet you have opinions about it.
I bet if someone opined about something that you have experience with but others don't, you'd tell them, "You aren't too bright to have an opinion about something you have never experienced."
I worked with a guy who didn't have kids, yet he had endless amounts of opinions on how to parent and would share those opinions with those of us who had kids. He thought he was so smart and was full of himself. You sound like that guy.
You aren't too bright yourself. Maybe stop posting your uninformed opinions.
Bolded is proof that writing is not your strongest suit. But hey, your kid was in the IB program and that makes you an expert.
Logic isn’t your strong suit either. I actually researched the program for my kid and decided it was not a good fit for the reasons I outlined above. Some people might find those arguments useful if they consider that choice. Then you’re whining that whatever I say is not valid because I don’t put my kid through the program.
I can research a car, but without ever test driving it, I really don't know what it's like to drive the car. But, I'm more likely to take the opinion of someone who test drove the car than someone who only researched about it.
My kid at least learned some critical thinking skills in their IBDP. So, yea, my kid and I are more of an expert on the IBDP than you are.
Test driving a car and attending a school are vastly different in terms of opportunity cost. You can’t do two programs at the same time for a direct comparison and the sample size is usually very small.
Of course you’ll talk to people that went through the program, visit the school, talk to the teachers, and do the same for the alternatives under consideration. You also need to do your own research, like a course catalogue, syllabus, typical course sequence, college admission outcomes to ultimately evaluate if it’s a good fit for your student.
Not sure why when someone points a potential negative aspect of the IB, people react so negatively and take it so personally, it’s almost cult like. I have no problem if someone criticizes the AP or DE route my child followed, as with everything, each have their strengths and weaknesses.
Pointing out negatives of the program is fine, if you have experience with it. I will admit to some negatives. But, you opined about the writing, something your research would not give you much information about. That's why I called you out.
See, you’re doing it again!
Pointing out negatives of the program is fine, if you have experience with it.
You don’t need to be an IB graduate to point out that the program is rigid, and as others mentioned that the course offering is not uniform or always rigorous.
You don’t need to have written an extended essay to look up a few examples online to evaluate them. Personal opinion, but they don’t seem to indicate an amazing writing program that’s significantly different from the type or writing in other advanced high school classes.
Your only qualification to have an opinion is that your kid went through the program. Maybe you should be as critical with your own qualifications as you are with mine.
You are judging an entire program's writing curriculum based on a handful of EEs you read.
Since my kid went through the program, and my kid thought it was a good program even for a STEM kid, I would say my kid's opinions weigh more than yours.
I know several kids who went through IDBP who are STEM majors.
You’re taking way too much credit for your kids work and put a disproportionate weight on that singular experience. You’re relaying second hand information, and pose as an expert.
I’ve read through about a dozen extended essays mostly in math and sciences because that’s what my kid is interested in. It was enough to form an informed opinion.
You need to learn to be less offended when others offer some criticism of the program your kid was enrolled in, because it’s crossing into unhealthy territory.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
I see what you did, there. Sure, you're pedantic, but you're not the pedantic-termed poster who talked about reasonable equivalence among IBs to whom the PP was replying.
With blithe discussion of MVC/DE/LA on the one hand and reference to dual enrollment on the other, a reader might think that MCPS provides that equivalence, when, in reality, there is a different burden on students taking those courses via dual enrollment versus those provided them in house. Of course, that's talking about particularly advanced math students, however they might have found themselves there.
Sure, those students may have the breadth of interest to pursue an IB experience. Indeed, APs and other college-level courses, when accessible, can provide more than the academics needed for IB. However, there are plenty with that breadth, but perhaps not quite that depth in math, for whom access to HL IB Analysis (or it's equivalent, providing a solid calc foundation along with, gasp!, stats -- quite useful to the vast majority, but often pooh-pooh'd by hard-science/engineering/math-or-nothing folks) should not be in question.
But it is, isn't it?
The discussion isn't just about math, and it didn't start off that way, either. It moved that direction because of an observation about course availability differences among the MCPS IBs.
If they were all the same, few would be so interested in RMIB (some applying with the intention to go only if they don't get into SMCS, though a few schools may offer higher local options for math) when there are closer options. OP's interest for their DC is a case in point, highlighted by insights provided by a number of posters, including those with good information about the changes that are part of standing up the regional IBs.
Those will take time, and dedication by MCPS, to achieve that equivalence (if that is, indeed, the aim; it would be easy to cast a jaundiced eye and see it as better enabling pearl clutchers by providing bread & circuses to others if they aren't immediate and strong with that dedication to meeting all students where they are). In the meantime, families should have a clear idea of the choices and the differences among them.
As an editor, I find it hard to imagine your own high school English teacher being okay with your Byzantine sentences. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm sure you write an excellent RFP, or white paper, or brief, or whatever professional document is within your profession, but the opacity of your argument obscures it.
You are obsessed with an "equity" you have yet to prove doesn't exist, or ever can exist, and advanced math, which you like to remind us (again), is a topic that interests you, although, (again), it did not interest the original poster's DD.
IB isn't the right program for every student. Obviously, it is not a program you like. I don't know if you're the teacher forced to teach it (I remember someone like that from one thread), or a parent whose kid didn't get into RMIB, or a parent who just thinks SMAC is better... and I don't care because it's not relevant. But I wish, whatever point you're trying to make, it was more clear. Are you saying that it will take time for MCPS to sort out its IB programs? Sure. Are you saying that more people are interested in RMIB than the regionals? Again, sure. People are sheep. They want the proven entity, the sure thing, the scarce, competitive thing. Look at you and your affection for Blair's STEM program.
But there are lids for every pot, and having more lids and more pots doesn't have to take anything away from *your* stove... so why are you so critical about academics you haven't experienced?
Please look at the just-past post. Whether due to complexity of writing or inattentive reading, you've conflated:
"Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others. Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
with:
"IB isn't all that. Better, higher-level math is available."
No, I wasn't conflating those two posts at all. The second one, I don't agree, but the writing is concise and the opinion is quite clear.
The first one, (presumably written by you),
Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others.
You've never proven the programs are unequal. You didn't even know the regional ones had applications until we told you.
Except that you are, once again, conflating. I was not the poster who didn't know about regional IBs.
You based the idea that regional programs are inferior on some fuzzy hand waving about the math classes that are offered. Never mind that several people chimed in from regionals and said those math classes are offered.
No, I base it on my conversations with MCPS admins, school principals, parents at PTA meetings and IB program coordinators over the past two to three years. There's a ton of hedging on the MCPS side, but it comes down to, "No, it doesn't get offered if we don't think there is enough 'community pull' for it." It may be offered some places at some times, but not consistently enough not to leave interested students without a large enough cohort (generally, outside the countywide RMIB magnet and, apparently, B-CC) out in the cold. And the response, there, is typically a platitudinous, "Don't worry, your child will be fine." :roll:
Others have chimed in with their own anecdotes, and I don't doubt their personal experiences, but nobody directly answered whether all the courses offered at RMIB are equivalently avaialble to any IB student at the other IB schools. I'm guessing this may be because they can't -- MCPS does a terrible job of allowing detailed comparison -- and relying on my conversations to maintain that it isn't so until relly shown otherwise.
You throw in the point that there aren't enough seats. One assumes you mean at RMIB. My own inference here is your child did not get into RMIB and you did not want to send them to a regional program. Given that framework, I understand your opinion... and you.
RMIB, but most criteria-based programs, too. Your inference is not correct -- don't set up another strawman -- and if you understand me, othwrwise, you appear not to address the issue as though you do.
Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
You throw in some platitudes here about equity, although it's not at all clear what kind of equity you're talking about. I assume broad equity is socioeconomic and cultural? And narrow equity is... just for IB classes and mostly math?
In this case, broad is, within a school system, meeting students where they are/where they can be without differences based on a large number of demographic factors, specifically including zip code within that system. Narrow is picking one or a very few of those demographic factors on which to base an evaluation of just provision of services.
You want Montgomery County to offer every student at every school the same classes? That would be terrific, although sadly too late for my kid who got waitlisted for VAC and had to take IB Art because their school had no VAC. How will we be paying for that? And will they offer classes in alchemical sorcery too?
Unless it's specifically constrained to limited-duration pilots, which are often necessary to evaluate programs before roll-out, MCPS should be allocating resources best to ensure that students at each school (or within each catchment, if magnets can properly and equitably serve well-identified populations) have similar educational experience opportunities. The exact same class may be too difficult in some cases and not desired in others, but when we talk about something like IB, then, yes, access to HL shouldn't be something families and students even have to question, no matter where they are.
MCPS magnets haven't grown in proportion to the student population. Opening regionals and aiming to serve the population with local programs is a fine strategy, but only if it provides that broad equity. We shouldn't be allocating resources that reinforce differences that reflect opportunity.
<aside: Alchemical Sorcery doesn't hold a candle to Silmaril Studies.>
We share an opinion that challenging more students is good.
Glad for that. Hope there's more we share.
Different poster, but you should have done this research before enrolling your child in his current program. Of course you can’t have an absolute uniform educational experience across all schools in the district. That’s the point for the existence of magnets, to select students that are stronger academically so they can be served through differentiated coursework that wouldn’t be feasible resource wise to be provided at non-magnet schools.
You’d have to be more specific to why it’s unfair and not equitable to your child. If it’s just that HL analysis is not offered, do they have the option to take HL approaches, or all math is SL? Is AP statistics and Calculus an option? Really, you should have looked into the course offering beforehand, that’s quite obvious.
Aaaand...we have, yet again, a poster who is reading something that is not there. I just mentioned to the prior poster that the inference that my child "didn't get in" was wrong. Why try to make it personal when the observations apply to MCPS in general? It amounts to another straw man.
It also isn't about the existence of magnets. Magnets are one approach to meeting students where they are.
It's about failing to provide for reasonable equivalence of that or other non-standard programming across the large student population equitably and with fidelity. For IB, that includes when someone at a regional, with a roughly equivalent profile to those selected for the too-few-seats countywide magnet, is informed that a HL class won't be offered at their school, while it is at the countywide magnet and, perhaps, certain others to which they do not have access based on their place of residence.
If you identified some shortcomings in your child’s education, it’s probably better to try to address it elsewhere the best you can. What’s reasonable and equitable equivalence with fidelity?
The reason I asked for specifics was because it’s hard to judge if what you’re asking for is reasonable based on a vague description of the issue. If you’d only be happy with the same course catalogue across all IB schools, then that’s not reasonable. Schools not offering the same courses is actually the norm, you could make the same argument about any kind of variation across the district not only IB schools.
Even if you’re right and indeed it is unfair, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to fix it in time for your kids graduation. Life is not always fair. Again, you should have done the research to see if it’s a good fit for your child and get a clear picture of what is offered.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
I see what you did, there. Sure, you're pedantic, but you're not the pedantic-termed poster who talked about reasonable equivalence among IBs to whom the PP was replying.
With blithe discussion of MVC/DE/LA on the one hand and reference to dual enrollment on the other, a reader might think that MCPS provides that equivalence, when, in reality, there is a different burden on students taking those courses via dual enrollment versus those provided them in house. Of course, that's talking about particularly advanced math students, however they might have found themselves there.
Sure, those students may have the breadth of interest to pursue an IB experience. Indeed, APs and other college-level courses, when accessible, can provide more than the academics needed for IB. However, there are plenty with that breadth, but perhaps not quite that depth in math, for whom access to HL IB Analysis (or it's equivalent, providing a solid calc foundation along with, gasp!, stats -- quite useful to the vast majority, but often pooh-pooh'd by hard-science/engineering/math-or-nothing folks) should not be in question.
But it is, isn't it?
The discussion isn't just about math, and it didn't start off that way, either. It moved that direction because of an observation about course availability differences among the MCPS IBs.
If they were all the same, few would be so interested in RMIB (some applying with the intention to go only if they don't get into SMCS, though a few schools may offer higher local options for math) when there are closer options. OP's interest for their DC is a case in point, highlighted by insights provided by a number of posters, including those with good information about the changes that are part of standing up the regional IBs.
Those will take time, and dedication by MCPS, to achieve that equivalence (if that is, indeed, the aim; it would be easy to cast a jaundiced eye and see it as better enabling pearl clutchers by providing bread & circuses to others if they aren't immediate and strong with that dedication to meeting all students where they are). In the meantime, families should have a clear idea of the choices and the differences among them.
As an editor, I find it hard to imagine your own high school English teacher being okay with your Byzantine sentences. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm sure you write an excellent RFP, or white paper, or brief, or whatever professional document is within your profession, but the opacity of your argument obscures it.
You are obsessed with an "equity" you have yet to prove doesn't exist, or ever can exist, and advanced math, which you like to remind us (again), is a topic that interests you, although, (again), it did not interest the original poster's DD.
IB isn't the right program for every student. Obviously, it is not a program you like. I don't know if you're the teacher forced to teach it (I remember someone like that from one thread), or a parent whose kid didn't get into RMIB, or a parent who just thinks SMAC is better... and I don't care because it's not relevant. But I wish, whatever point you're trying to make, it was more clear. Are you saying that it will take time for MCPS to sort out its IB programs? Sure. Are you saying that more people are interested in RMIB than the regionals? Again, sure. People are sheep. They want the proven entity, the sure thing, the scarce, competitive thing. Look at you and your affection for Blair's STEM program.
But there are lids for every pot, and having more lids and more pots doesn't have to take anything away from *your* stove... so why are you so critical about academics you haven't experienced?
Please look at the just-past post. Whether due to complexity of writing or inattentive reading, you've conflated:
"Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others. Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
with:
"IB isn't all that. Better, higher-level math is available."
No, I wasn't conflating those two posts at all. The second one, I don't agree, but the writing is concise and the opinion is quite clear.
The first one, (presumably written by you),
Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others.
You've never proven the programs are unequal. You didn't even know the regional ones had applications until we told you.
Except that you are, once again, conflating. I was not the poster who didn't know about regional IBs.
You based the idea that regional programs are inferior on some fuzzy hand waving about the math classes that are offered. Never mind that several people chimed in from regionals and said those math classes are offered.
No, I base it on my conversations with MCPS admins, school principals, parents at PTA meetings and IB program coordinators over the past two to three years. There's a ton of hedging on the MCPS side, but it comes down to, "No, it doesn't get offered if we don't think there is enough 'community pull' for it." It may be offered some places at some times, but not consistently enough not to leave interested students without a large enough cohort (generally, outside the countywide RMIB magnet and, apparently, B-CC) out in the cold. And the response, there, is typically a platitudinous, "Don't worry, your child will be fine." :roll:
Others have chimed in with their own anecdotes, and I don't doubt their personal experiences, but nobody directly answered whether all the courses offered at RMIB are equivalently avaialble to any IB student at the other IB schools. I'm guessing this may be because they can't -- MCPS does a terrible job of allowing detailed comparison -- and relying on my conversations to maintain that it isn't so until relly shown otherwise.
You throw in the point that there aren't enough seats. One assumes you mean at RMIB. My own inference here is your child did not get into RMIB and you did not want to send them to a regional program. Given that framework, I understand your opinion... and you.
RMIB, but most criteria-based programs, too. Your inference is not correct -- don't set up another strawman -- and if you understand me, othwrwise, you appear not to address the issue as though you do.
Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
You throw in some platitudes here about equity, although it's not at all clear what kind of equity you're talking about. I assume broad equity is socioeconomic and cultural? And narrow equity is... just for IB classes and mostly math?
In this case, broad is, within a school system, meeting students where they are/where they can be without differences based on a large number of demographic factors, specifically including zip code within that system. Narrow is picking one or a very few of those demographic factors on which to base an evaluation of just provision of services.
You want Montgomery County to offer every student at every school the same classes? That would be terrific, although sadly too late for my kid who got waitlisted for VAC and had to take IB Art because their school had no VAC. How will we be paying for that? And will they offer classes in alchemical sorcery too?
Unless it's specifically constrained to limited-duration pilots, which are often necessary to evaluate programs before roll-out, MCPS should be allocating resources best to ensure that students at each school (or within each catchment, if magnets can properly and equitably serve well-identified populations) have similar educational experience opportunities. The exact same class may be too difficult in some cases and not desired in others, but when we talk about something like IB, then, yes, access to HL shouldn't be something families and students even have to question, no matter where they are.
MCPS magnets haven't grown in proportion to the student population. Opening regionals and aiming to serve the population with local programs is a fine strategy, but only if it provides that broad equity. We shouldn't be allocating resources that reinforce differences that reflect opportunity.
<aside: Alchemical Sorcery doesn't hold a candle to Silmaril Studies.>
We share an opinion that challenging more students is good.
Glad for that. Hope there's more we share.
Different poster, but you should have done this research before enrolling your child in his current program. Of course you can’t have an absolute uniform educational experience across all schools in the district. That’s the point for the existence of magnets, to select students that are stronger academically so they can be served through differentiated coursework that wouldn’t be feasible resource wise to be provided at non-magnet schools.
You’d have to be more specific to why it’s unfair and not equitable to your child. If it’s just that HL analysis is not offered, do they have the option to take HL approaches, or all math is SL? Is AP statistics and Calculus an option? Really, you should have looked into the course offering beforehand, that’s quite obvious.
Aaaand...we have, yet again, a poster who is reading something that is not there. I just mentioned to the prior poster that the inference that my child "didn't get in" was wrong. Why try to make it personal when the observations apply to MCPS in general? It amounts to another straw man.
It also isn't about the existence of magnets. Magnets are one approach to meeting students where they are.
It's about failing to provide for reasonable equivalence of that or other non-standard programming across the large student population equitably and with fidelity. For IB, that includes when someone at a regional, with a roughly equivalent profile to those selected for the too-few-seats countywide magnet, is informed that a HL class won't be offered at their school, while it is at the countywide magnet and, perhaps, certain others to which they do not have access based on their place of residence.
If you identified some shortcomings in your child’s education, it’s probably better to try to address it elsewhere the best you can.
Um, you could actually read a post before you try to counter it. That is...unless you are employing the strawman rhetorical fallacy on purpose. As mentioned, it's not about my kid, but about the system.
What’s reasonable and equitable equivalence with fidelity?
Maybe a situation where there is equanimity/ambivalence for families/students about which school they might attend, given equivalent access to any magnets, because there isn't an appreciable difference in offerings/learning opportunities and relative confidence that those offerings are being implemented similarly across schools?
The reason I asked for specifics was because it’s hard to judge if what you’re asking for is reasonable based on a vague description of the issue. If you’d only be happy with the same course catalogue across all IB schools, then that’s not reasonable.
We shouldn't be happy with a system that effectively reinforces differential opportunity in the face of equivalent individual capability/interest/need.
Schools not offering the same courses is actually the norm, you could make the same argument about any kind of variation across the district not only IB schools.
Understood. See the prior remark.
Even if you’re right and indeed it is unfair, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to fix it in time for your kids graduation. Life is not always fair.
Non sequitur. Should we not seek to better the world? Should we only seek to correct things when it would help us (or our children, in this case) directly? ::roll::
Again, you should have done the research to see if it’s a good fit for your child and get a clear picture of what is offered.
Again, I'm not in the situation you appear persistently to present as the case, and even if I was, that's not anything that invalidates the points I've presented, myself. I would agree that folks should get a good picture of that which is offered. I wish MCPS made that much clearer than they do.
I’m not a big fan of the extended essay format in IB. It’s a longish paper about 10 pages, and it takes more work than typical writing assignments, but it’s in a weird format that is a cross between an expository essay and report. So you end up with kids writing a science paper in first person which sounds very weird. You won’t find that format anywhere else except in the IB program. It has a minimum length of 4000 words, so it adds an incentive to ramble and be as verbose as possible, which in my view is the opposite of good writing.
Some people refer to it as a high school thesis, but that’s an exaggeration. I suppose it has some educational value, but in my view a few lab reports and writing assignments in humanities although shorter work better in doing different types of writing. Also the topics chosen can be a hit and miss, some really lack substance and end up like a description of a personal hobby. Not sure if teachers are doing a good job mentoring and advising students on the extended essay, I’d suspect it depends on the school.
The program is not bad for writing, but it’s far from what some posters try make it seem.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
I see what you did, there. Sure, you're pedantic, but you're not the pedantic-termed poster who talked about reasonable equivalence among IBs to whom the PP was replying.
With blithe discussion of MVC/DE/LA on the one hand and reference to dual enrollment on the other, a reader might think that MCPS provides that equivalence, when, in reality, there is a different burden on students taking those courses via dual enrollment versus those provided them in house. Of course, that's talking about particularly advanced math students, however they might have found themselves there.
Sure, those students may have the breadth of interest to pursue an IB experience. Indeed, APs and other college-level courses, when accessible, can provide more than the academics needed for IB. However, there are plenty with that breadth, but perhaps not quite that depth in math, for whom access to HL IB Analysis (or it's equivalent, providing a solid calc foundation along with, gasp!, stats -- quite useful to the vast majority, but often pooh-pooh'd by hard-science/engineering/math-or-nothing folks) should not be in question.
But it is, isn't it?
The discussion isn't just about math, and it didn't start off that way, either. It moved that direction because of an observation about course availability differences among the MCPS IBs.
If they were all the same, few would be so interested in RMIB (some applying with the intention to go only if they don't get into SMCS, though a few schools may offer higher local options for math) when there are closer options. OP's interest for their DC is a case in point, highlighted by insights provided by a number of posters, including those with good information about the changes that are part of standing up the regional IBs.
Those will take time, and dedication by MCPS, to achieve that equivalence (if that is, indeed, the aim; it would be easy to cast a jaundiced eye and see it as better enabling pearl clutchers by providing bread & circuses to others if they aren't immediate and strong with that dedication to meeting all students where they are). In the meantime, families should have a clear idea of the choices and the differences among them.
As an editor, I find it hard to imagine your own high school English teacher being okay with your Byzantine sentences. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm sure you write an excellent RFP, or white paper, or brief, or whatever professional document is within your profession, but the opacity of your argument obscures it.
You are obsessed with an "equity" you have yet to prove doesn't exist, or ever can exist, and advanced math, which you like to remind us (again), is a topic that interests you, although, (again), it did not interest the original poster's DD.
IB isn't the right program for every student. Obviously, it is not a program you like. I don't know if you're the teacher forced to teach it (I remember someone like that from one thread), or a parent whose kid didn't get into RMIB, or a parent who just thinks SMAC is better... and I don't care because it's not relevant. But I wish, whatever point you're trying to make, it was more clear. Are you saying that it will take time for MCPS to sort out its IB programs? Sure. Are you saying that more people are interested in RMIB than the regionals? Again, sure. People are sheep. They want the proven entity, the sure thing, the scarce, competitive thing. Look at you and your affection for Blair's STEM program.
But there are lids for every pot, and having more lids and more pots doesn't have to take anything away from *your* stove... so why are you so critical about academics you haven't experienced?
Please look at the just-past post. Whether due to complexity of writing or inattentive reading, you've conflated:
"Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others. Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
with:
"IB isn't all that. Better, higher-level math is available."
No, I wasn't conflating those two posts at all. The second one, I don't agree, but the writing is concise and the opinion is quite clear.
The first one, (presumably written by you),
Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others.
You've never proven the programs are unequal. You didn't even know the regional ones had applications until we told you.
Except that you are, once again, conflating. I was not the poster who didn't know about regional IBs.
You based the idea that regional programs are inferior on some fuzzy hand waving about the math classes that are offered. Never mind that several people chimed in from regionals and said those math classes are offered.
No, I base it on my conversations with MCPS admins, school principals, parents at PTA meetings and IB program coordinators over the past two to three years. There's a ton of hedging on the MCPS side, but it comes down to, "No, it doesn't get offered if we don't think there is enough 'community pull' for it." It may be offered some places at some times, but not consistently enough not to leave interested students without a large enough cohort (generally, outside the countywide RMIB magnet and, apparently, B-CC) out in the cold. And the response, there, is typically a platitudinous, "Don't worry, your child will be fine." :roll:
Others have chimed in with their own anecdotes, and I don't doubt their personal experiences, but nobody directly answered whether all the courses offered at RMIB are equivalently avaialble to any IB student at the other IB schools. I'm guessing this may be because they can't -- MCPS does a terrible job of allowing detailed comparison -- and relying on my conversations to maintain that it isn't so until relly shown otherwise.
You throw in the point that there aren't enough seats. One assumes you mean at RMIB. My own inference here is your child did not get into RMIB and you did not want to send them to a regional program. Given that framework, I understand your opinion... and you.
RMIB, but most criteria-based programs, too. Your inference is not correct -- don't set up another strawman -- and if you understand me, othwrwise, you appear not to address the issue as though you do.
Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
You throw in some platitudes here about equity, although it's not at all clear what kind of equity you're talking about. I assume broad equity is socioeconomic and cultural? And narrow equity is... just for IB classes and mostly math?
In this case, broad is, within a school system, meeting students where they are/where they can be without differences based on a large number of demographic factors, specifically including zip code within that system. Narrow is picking one or a very few of those demographic factors on which to base an evaluation of just provision of services.
You want Montgomery County to offer every student at every school the same classes? That would be terrific, although sadly too late for my kid who got waitlisted for VAC and had to take IB Art because their school had no VAC. How will we be paying for that? And will they offer classes in alchemical sorcery too?
Unless it's specifically constrained to limited-duration pilots, which are often necessary to evaluate programs before roll-out, MCPS should be allocating resources best to ensure that students at each school (or within each catchment, if magnets can properly and equitably serve well-identified populations) have similar educational experience opportunities. The exact same class may be too difficult in some cases and not desired in others, but when we talk about something like IB, then, yes, access to HL shouldn't be something families and students even have to question, no matter where they are.
MCPS magnets haven't grown in proportion to the student population. Opening regionals and aiming to serve the population with local programs is a fine strategy, but only if it provides that broad equity. We shouldn't be allocating resources that reinforce differences that reflect opportunity.
<aside: Alchemical Sorcery doesn't hold a candle to Silmaril Studies.>
We share an opinion that challenging more students is good.
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
I see what you did, there. Sure, you're pedantic, but you're not the pedantic-termed poster who talked about reasonable equivalence among IBs to whom the PP was replying.
With blithe discussion of MVC/DE/LA on the one hand and reference to dual enrollment on the other, a reader might think that MCPS provides that equivalence, when, in reality, there is a different burden on students taking those courses via dual enrollment versus those provided them in house. Of course, that's talking about particularly advanced math students, however they might have found themselves there.
Sure, those students may have the breadth of interest to pursue an IB experience. Indeed, APs and other college-level courses, when accessible, can provide more than the academics needed for IB. However, there are plenty with that breadth, but perhaps not quite that depth in math, for whom access to HL IB Analysis (or it's equivalent, providing a solid calc foundation along with, gasp!, stats -- quite useful to the vast majority, but often pooh-pooh'd by hard-science/engineering/math-or-nothing folks) should not be in question.
But it is, isn't it?
The discussion isn't just about math, and it didn't start off that way, either. It moved that direction because of an observation about course availability differences among the MCPS IBs.
If they were all the same, few would be so interested in RMIB (some applying with the intention to go only if they don't get into SMCS, though a few schools may offer higher local options for math) when there are closer options. OP's interest for their DC is a case in point, highlighted by insights provided by a number of posters, including those with good information about the changes that are part of standing up the regional IBs.
Those will take time, and dedication by MCPS, to achieve that equivalence (if that is, indeed, the aim; it would be easy to cast a jaundiced eye and see it as better enabling pearl clutchers by providing bread & circuses to others if they aren't immediate and strong with that dedication to meeting all students where they are). In the meantime, families should have a clear idea of the choices and the differences among them.
As an editor, I find it hard to imagine your own high school English teacher being okay with your Byzantine sentences. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm sure you write an excellent RFP, or white paper, or brief, or whatever professional document is within your profession, but the opacity of your argument obscures it.
You are obsessed with an "equity" you have yet to prove doesn't exist, or ever can exist, and advanced math, which you like to remind us (again), is a topic that interests you, although, (again), it did not interest the original poster's DD.
IB isn't the right program for every student. Obviously, it is not a program you like. I don't know if you're the teacher forced to teach it (I remember someone like that from one thread), or a parent whose kid didn't get into RMIB, or a parent who just thinks SMAC is better... and I don't care because it's not relevant. But I wish, whatever point you're trying to make, it was more clear. Are you saying that it will take time for MCPS to sort out its IB programs? Sure. Are you saying that more people are interested in RMIB than the regionals? Again, sure. People are sheep. They want the proven entity, the sure thing, the scarce, competitive thing. Look at you and your affection for Blair's STEM program.
But there are lids for every pot, and having more lids and more pots doesn't have to take anything away from *your* stove... so why are you so critical about academics you haven't experienced?
Please look at the just-past post. Whether due to complexity of writing or inattentive reading, you've conflated:
"Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others. Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
with:
"IB isn't all that. Better, higher-level math is available."
No, I wasn't conflating those two posts at all. The second one, I don't agree, but the writing is concise and the opinion is quite clear.
The first one, (presumably written by you),
Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others.
You've never proven the programs are unequal. You didn't even know the regional ones had applications until we told you.
Except that you are, once again, conflating. I was not the poster who didn't know about regional IBs.
You based the idea that regional programs are inferior on some fuzzy hand waving about the math classes that are offered. Never mind that several people chimed in from regionals and said those math classes are offered.
No, I base it on my conversations with MCPS admins, school principals, parents at PTA meetings and IB program coordinators over the past two to three years. There's a ton of hedging on the MCPS side, but it comes down to, "No, it doesn't get offered if we don't think there is enough 'community pull' for it." It may be offered some places at some times, but not consistently enough not to leave interested students without a large enough cohort (generally, outside the countywide RMIB magnet and, apparently, B-CC) out in the cold. And the response, there, is typically a platitudinous, "Don't worry, your child will be fine." :roll:
Others have chimed in with their own anecdotes, and I don't doubt their personal experiences, but nobody directly answered whether all the courses offered at RMIB are equivalently avaialble to any IB student at the other IB schools. I'm guessing this may be because they can't -- MCPS does a terrible job of allowing detailed comparison -- and relying on my conversations to maintain that it isn't so until relly shown otherwise.
You throw in the point that there aren't enough seats. One assumes you mean at RMIB. My own inference here is your child did not get into RMIB and you did not want to send them to a regional program. Given that framework, I understand your opinion... and you.
RMIB, but most criteria-based programs, too. Your inference is not correct -- don't set up another strawman -- and if you understand me, othwrwise, you appear not to address the issue as though you do.
Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
You throw in some platitudes here about equity, although it's not at all clear what kind of equity you're talking about. I assume broad equity is socioeconomic and cultural? And narrow equity is... just for IB classes and mostly math?
In this case, broad is, within a school system, meeting students where they are/where they can be without differences based on a large number of demographic factors, specifically including zip code within that system. Narrow is picking one or a very few of those demographic factors on which to base an evaluation of just provision of services.
You want Montgomery County to offer every student at every school the same classes? That would be terrific, although sadly too late for my kid who got waitlisted for VAC and had to take IB Art because their school had no VAC. How will we be paying for that? And will they offer classes in alchemical sorcery too?
Unless it's specifically constrained to limited-duration pilots, which are often necessary to evaluate programs before roll-out, MCPS should be allocating resources best to ensure that students at each school (or within each catchment, if magnets can properly and equitably serve well-identified populations) have similar educational experience opportunities. The exact same class may be too difficult in some cases and not desired in others, but when we talk about something like IB, then, yes, access to HL shouldn't be something families and students even have to question, no matter where they are.
MCPS magnets haven't grown in proportion to the student population. Opening regionals and aiming to serve the population with local programs is a fine strategy, but only if it provides that broad equity. We shouldn't be allocating resources that reinforce differences that reflect opportunity.
<aside: Alchemical Sorcery doesn't hold a candle to Silmaril Studies.>
We share an opinion that challenging more students is good.
Glad for that. Hope there's more we share.
Different poster, but you should have done this research before enrolling your child in his current program. Of course you can’t have an absolute uniform educational experience across all schools in the district. That’s the point for the existence of magnets, to select students that are stronger academically so they can be served through differentiated coursework that wouldn’t be feasible resource wise to be provided at non-magnet schools.
You’d have to be more specific to why it’s unfair and not equitable to your child. If it’s just that HL analysis is not offered, do they have the option to take HL approaches, or all math is SL? Is AP statistics and Calculus an option? Really, you should have looked into the course offering beforehand, that’s quite obvious.
Aaaand...we have, yet again, a poster who is reading something that is not there. I just mentioned to the prior poster that the inference that my child "didn't get in" was wrong. Why try to make it personal when the observations apply to MCPS in general? It amounts to another straw man.
It also isn't about the existence of magnets. Magnets are one approach to meeting students where they are.
It's about failing to provide for reasonable equivalence of that or other non-standard programming across the large student population equitably and with fidelity. For IB, that includes when someone at a regional, with a roughly equivalent profile to those selected for the too-few-seats countywide magnet, is informed that a HL class won't be offered at their school, while it is at the countywide magnet and, perhaps, certain others to which they do not have access based on their place of residence.
If you identified some shortcomings in your child’s education, it’s probably better to try to address it elsewhere the best you can.
Um, you could actually read a post before you try to counter it. That is...unless you are employing the strawman rhetorical fallacy on purpose. As mentioned, it's not about my kid, but about the system.
What’s reasonable and equitable equivalence with fidelity?
Maybe a situation where there is equanimity/ambivalence for families/students about which school they might attend, given equivalent access to any magnets, because there isn't an appreciable difference in offerings/learning opportunities and relative confidence that those offerings are being implemented similarly across schools?
The reason I asked for specifics was because it’s hard to judge if what you’re asking for is reasonable based on a vague description of the issue. If you’d only be happy with the same course catalogue across all IB schools, then that’s not reasonable.
We shouldn't be happy with a system that effectively reinforces differential opportunity in the face of equivalent individual capability/interest/need.
Schools not offering the same courses is actually the norm, you could make the same argument about any kind of variation across the district not only IB schools.
Understood. See the prior remark.
Even if you’re right and indeed it is unfair, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to fix it in time for your kids graduation. Life is not always fair.
Non sequitur. Should we not seek to better the world? Should we only seek to correct things when it would help us (or our children, in this case) directly? ::roll::
Again, you should have done the research to see if it’s a good fit for your child and get a clear picture of what is offered.
Again, I'm not in the situation you appear persistently to present as the case, and even if I was, that's not anything that invalidates the points I've presented, myself. I would agree that folks should get a good picture of that which is offered. I wish MCPS made that much clearer than they do.
Perhaps if they hired you to write their brochures we could all achieve the differential equanimity for our children that we so desire!
Can someone give me the tl;dr version of the screeds above? Leaving aside the philosophical discussions on educational equity, what specific classes are offered at RMIB but not at Kennedy or other regional IB programs?
Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).
The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.
Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.
There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias. From that perspective, it may appear more random.
The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).
The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.
This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option.
That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs. Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?
You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.
To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.
I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:
1.) They're inferior
2.) All IB programs are inferior.
This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.
You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.
I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school.
I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.
IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.
The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.
Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
I see what you did, there. Sure, you're pedantic, but you're not the pedantic-termed poster who talked about reasonable equivalence among IBs to whom the PP was replying.
With blithe discussion of MVC/DE/LA on the one hand and reference to dual enrollment on the other, a reader might think that MCPS provides that equivalence, when, in reality, there is a different burden on students taking those courses via dual enrollment versus those provided them in house. Of course, that's talking about particularly advanced math students, however they might have found themselves there.
Sure, those students may have the breadth of interest to pursue an IB experience. Indeed, APs and other college-level courses, when accessible, can provide more than the academics needed for IB. However, there are plenty with that breadth, but perhaps not quite that depth in math, for whom access to HL IB Analysis (or it's equivalent, providing a solid calc foundation along with, gasp!, stats -- quite useful to the vast majority, but often pooh-pooh'd by hard-science/engineering/math-or-nothing folks) should not be in question.
But it is, isn't it?
The discussion isn't just about math, and it didn't start off that way, either. It moved that direction because of an observation about course availability differences among the MCPS IBs.
If they were all the same, few would be so interested in RMIB (some applying with the intention to go only if they don't get into SMCS, though a few schools may offer higher local options for math) when there are closer options. OP's interest for their DC is a case in point, highlighted by insights provided by a number of posters, including those with good information about the changes that are part of standing up the regional IBs.
Those will take time, and dedication by MCPS, to achieve that equivalence (if that is, indeed, the aim; it would be easy to cast a jaundiced eye and see it as better enabling pearl clutchers by providing bread & circuses to others if they aren't immediate and strong with that dedication to meeting all students where they are). In the meantime, families should have a clear idea of the choices and the differences among them.
As an editor, I find it hard to imagine your own high school English teacher being okay with your Byzantine sentences. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm sure you write an excellent RFP, or white paper, or brief, or whatever professional document is within your profession, but the opacity of your argument obscures it.
You are obsessed with an "equity" you have yet to prove doesn't exist, or ever can exist, and advanced math, which you like to remind us (again), is a topic that interests you, although, (again), it did not interest the original poster's DD.
IB isn't the right program for every student. Obviously, it is not a program you like. I don't know if you're the teacher forced to teach it (I remember someone like that from one thread), or a parent whose kid didn't get into RMIB, or a parent who just thinks SMAC is better... and I don't care because it's not relevant. But I wish, whatever point you're trying to make, it was more clear. Are you saying that it will take time for MCPS to sort out its IB programs? Sure. Are you saying that more people are interested in RMIB than the regionals? Again, sure. People are sheep. They want the proven entity, the sure thing, the scarce, competitive thing. Look at you and your affection for Blair's STEM program.
But there are lids for every pot, and having more lids and more pots doesn't have to take anything away from *your* stove... so why are you so critical about academics you haven't experienced?
Please look at the just-past post. Whether due to complexity of writing or inattentive reading, you've conflated:
"Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others. Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
with:
"IB isn't all that. Better, higher-level math is available."
No, I wasn't conflating those two posts at all. The second one, I don't agree, but the writing is concise and the opinion is quite clear.
The first one, (presumably written by you),
Not all MCPS IB programs are equal. MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others.
You've never proven the programs are unequal. You didn't even know the regional ones had applications until we told you.
Except that you are, once again, conflating. I was not the poster who didn't know about regional IBs.
You based the idea that regional programs are inferior on some fuzzy hand waving about the math classes that are offered. Never mind that several people chimed in from regionals and said those math classes are offered.
No, I base it on my conversations with MCPS admins, school principals, parents at PTA meetings and IB program coordinators over the past two to three years. There's a ton of hedging on the MCPS side, but it comes down to, "No, it doesn't get offered if we don't think there is enough 'community pull' for it." It may be offered some places at some times, but not consistently enough not to leave interested students without a large enough cohort (generally, outside the countywide RMIB magnet and, apparently, B-CC) out in the cold. And the response, there, is typically a platitudinous, "Don't worry, your child will be fine." :roll:
Others have chimed in with their own anecdotes, and I don't doubt their personal experiences, but nobody directly answered whether all the courses offered at RMIB are equivalently avaialble to any IB student at the other IB schools. I'm guessing this may be because they can't -- MCPS does a terrible job of allowing detailed comparison -- and relying on my conversations to maintain that it isn't so until relly shown otherwise.
You throw in the point that there aren't enough seats. One assumes you mean at RMIB. My own inference here is your child did not get into RMIB and you did not want to send them to a regional program. Given that framework, I understand your opinion... and you.
RMIB, but most criteria-based programs, too. Your inference is not correct -- don't set up another strawman -- and if you understand me, othwrwise, you appear not to address the issue as though you do.
Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that. Equity (broadly defined) is important. (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.) Families should be aware as they make choices."
You throw in some platitudes here about equity, although it's not at all clear what kind of equity you're talking about. I assume broad equity is socioeconomic and cultural? And narrow equity is... just for IB classes and mostly math?
In this case, broad is, within a school system, meeting students where they are/where they can be without differences based on a large number of demographic factors, specifically including zip code within that system. Narrow is picking one or a very few of those demographic factors on which to base an evaluation of just provision of services.
You want Montgomery County to offer every student at every school the same classes? That would be terrific, although sadly too late for my kid who got waitlisted for VAC and had to take IB Art because their school had no VAC. How will we be paying for that? And will they offer classes in alchemical sorcery too?
Unless it's specifically constrained to limited-duration pilots, which are often necessary to evaluate programs before roll-out, MCPS should be allocating resources best to ensure that students at each school (or within each catchment, if magnets can properly and equitably serve well-identified populations) have similar educational experience opportunities. The exact same class may be too difficult in some cases and not desired in others, but when we talk about something like IB, then, yes, access to HL shouldn't be something families and students even have to question, no matter where they are.
MCPS magnets haven't grown in proportion to the student population. Opening regionals and aiming to serve the population with local programs is a fine strategy, but only if it provides that broad equity. We shouldn't be allocating resources that reinforce differences that reflect opportunity.
<aside: Alchemical Sorcery doesn't hold a candle to Silmaril Studies.>
We share an opinion that challenging more students is good.
Glad for that. Hope there's more we share.
Different poster, but you should have done this research before enrolling your child in his current program. Of course you can’t have an absolute uniform educational experience across all schools in the district. That’s the point for the existence of magnets, to select students that are stronger academically so they can be served through differentiated coursework that wouldn’t be feasible resource wise to be provided at non-magnet schools.
You’d have to be more specific to why it’s unfair and not equitable to your child. If it’s just that HL analysis is not offered, do they have the option to take HL approaches, or all math is SL? Is AP statistics and Calculus an option? Really, you should have looked into the course offering beforehand, that’s quite obvious.
Aaaand...we have, yet again, a poster who is reading something that is not there. I just mentioned to the prior poster that the inference that my child "didn't get in" was wrong. Why try to make it personal when the observations apply to MCPS in general? It amounts to another straw man.
It also isn't about the existence of magnets. Magnets are one approach to meeting students where they are.
It's about failing to provide for reasonable equivalence of that or other non-standard programming across the large student population equitably and with fidelity. For IB, that includes when someone at a regional, with a roughly equivalent profile to those selected for the too-few-seats countywide magnet, is informed that a HL class won't be offered at their school, while it is at the countywide magnet and, perhaps, certain others to which they do not have access based on their place of residence.
Translation: Opinion: Math is the only thing that matters.
If you identified some shortcomings in your child’s education, it’s probably better to try to address it elsewhere the best you can.
Um, you could actually read a post before you try to counter it. That is...unless you are employing the strawman rhetorical fallacy on purpose. As mentioned, it's not about my kid, but about the system.
What’s reasonable and equitable equivalence with fidelity?
Maybe a situation where there is equanimity/ambivalence for families/students about which school they might attend, given equivalent access to any magnets, because there isn't an appreciable difference in offerings/learning opportunities and relative confidence that those offerings are being implemented similarly across schools?
The reason I asked for specifics was because it’s hard to judge if what you’re asking for is reasonable based on a vague description of the issue. If you’d only be happy with the same course catalogue across all IB schools, then that’s not reasonable.
We shouldn't be happy with a system that effectively reinforces differential opportunity in the face of equivalent individual capability/interest/need.
Translation: Opinion: I do not like MCPS.
Schools not offering the same courses is actually the norm, you could make the same argument about any kind of variation across the district not only IB schools.
Understood. See the prior remark.
Even if you’re right and indeed it is unfair, it’s unlikely you’ll be able to fix it in time for your kids graduation. Life is not always fair.
Non sequitur. Should we not seek to better the world? Should we only seek to correct things when it would help us (or our children, in this case) directly? ::roll::
Translation: Statement: I am bettering the world right now. Can't you tell?
Again, you should have done the research to see if it’s a good fit for your child and get a clear picture of what is offered.
Again, I'm not in the situation you appear persistently to present as the case, and even if I was, that's not anything that invalidates the points I've presented, myself. I would agree that folks should get a good picture of that which is offered. I wish MCPS made that much clearer than they do.
Translation: Meatbag, again I have no child in the system, but that doesn't make my opinion invalid. MCPS needs to hire more oracles so they know what classes they will offer at every school in the fiture.
Anonymous wrote:Can someone give me the tl;dr version of the screeds above? Leaving aside the philosophical discussions on educational equity, what specific classes are offered at RMIB but not at Kennedy or other regional IB programs?
Thanks!
I've been working on that... But the morrass of quotes and tags make it harder. To answer your question, Rmib doesn't offer Italian. Kennedy does.I think each IB program has one language that's not offered at the others, but don't quote me on that. It was something I looked into more than a year ago.
Basically this guy is arguing that "broader equity" which I guess means rich people don't lose their stuff, is best served by every single IB program having HL analysis, statistics and calculus (apologies if I've got the specific HL class wrong), and that while it would be nice if they also offered more stuff, none of the other stuff matters because he, as someone who hires people, can teach them everything else they need. Like writing.
I'm not trying to be unkind, but I think we can all take a moment to be amused by that assertion.
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