What are my child's chances of getting into the IB program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

I found it pretentious and cringey, but I agree that it depends a lot on the instructor.

Most often it’s still going to regurgitate some ideas from Plato, Kant, Hume, Locke etc, albeit at poorly understood high school level.

To be honest the writing part of my DC IB program was quite underwhelming, essentially quantity over quality. It doesn’t help that the instructor is actually not capable of writing or teaching.

Instead of the extended essay I think my student would have been way better off with a solid practice of a five paragraph essay, strong understanding of grammar and a well developed vocabulary. I’d much prefer a short assignment that is well edited to be crisp and clear instead of 10 pages of rambling sentences. The teacher feedback was nonexistent, so had have to figure it out on his own.

It’s worst when the TOK is mashed with the flavor of the day of postmodernism, post colonialism, social justice soup. Then it turns into indigenous ways of knowing, all cultures are equal cliches and tropes that truly are painful to read. I found TOK to be the a very poor example of deep thinking, analysis and argumentative writing.

I second the other poster that the writing part of IB was not impressive to say the least.

I don't think you're wrong (tbh I haven't read my kid's ToK essay), but I read their college application essays and they were fantastic. I was supposed to copyedit and the only thing I saw missing was one comma.

For a student who actually likes writing, IB is great. And if the fotm is a mishmash of social justice theory and woo woo "everything is colonialism, and colonialism is bad," well, so what? Gives them a heads up on what to question about what they've learn in college when all their peers are pounding Said and Kende back like they're Baptist missionaries on a bender.

I think it's still preferable to them deciding "The Fountainhead" is the best book ever.

You can have an opinion about your kids classes without having to take them yourself, that’s basically the entire DCUM, people offering their perspective.

In fact, you can have an opinion about anything without knowing anything about it at all.

Ahhh, the classic “what do we know and how do we know it”, the hallmark of the IB graduate that passes off as “critical thinking”. Honestly I’m so sick of this formulaic approach to anything, that is my issue with the writing style of the IB program. It’s quite different than the writing done for most majors or careers.

Apologies if that comes off too harsh.

dp.. you are comparing a HS writing style in a specific program with workplace writing style. That's a ridiculous comparison.

IB is its own thing. Why are you comparing it to workplace writing? So strange.

That’s what I keep saying, IB is too much of its own thing.

Compare it to the writing you will do in college for most majors, that’s what the high school is supposed to prepare you for. The TOK essay doesn’t strike me as particularly useful, relevant or pertinent.

When you follow a recipe for your writing based on faux analysis and critical thinking cliches you’re going to be prepared for majors that value faux analysis and critical thinking cliches.

To be successful in college for the vast majority of majors as far as writing skills are concerned master two things: how to do a review of a topic and how to write a lab report. Unfortunately there aren’t many high schools that do this.

says who?

You’re doing the “what do we know and how do we know it” again!

Seriously, you don’t see how your mind is held captive to these tropes? Take a step back and you’ll understand how this can be so annoying for other people because it adds nothing to the conversation.

You're using that word wrong.

But I agree with you: if you think "what do we know and how do we know it" adds nothing, then IB really is not for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

I found it pretentious and cringey, but I agree that it depends a lot on the instructor.

Most often it’s still going to regurgitate some ideas from Plato, Kant, Hume, Locke etc, albeit at poorly understood high school level.

To be honest the writing part of my DC IB program was quite underwhelming, essentially quantity over quality. It doesn’t help that the instructor is actually not capable of writing or teaching.

Instead of the extended essay I think my student would have been way better off with a solid practice of a five paragraph essay, strong understanding of grammar and a well developed vocabulary. I’d much prefer a short assignment that is well edited to be crisp and clear instead of 10 pages of rambling sentences. The teacher feedback was nonexistent, so had have to figure it out on his own.

It’s worst when the TOK is mashed with the flavor of the day of postmodernism, post colonialism, social justice soup. Then it turns into indigenous ways of knowing, all cultures are equal cliches and tropes that truly are painful to read. I found TOK to be the a very poor example of deep thinking, analysis and argumentative writing.

I second the other poster that the writing part of IB was not impressive to say the least.

I don't think you're wrong (tbh I haven't read my kid's ToK essay), but I read their college application essays and they were fantastic. I was supposed to copyedit and the only thing I saw missing was one comma.

For a student who actually likes writing, IB is great. And if the fotm is a mishmash of social justice theory and woo woo "everything is colonialism, and colonialism is bad," well, so what? Gives them a heads up on what to question about what they've learn in college when all their peers are pounding Said and Kende back like they're Baptist missionaries on a bender.

I think it's still preferable to them deciding "The Fountainhead" is the best book ever.

You can have an opinion about your kids classes without having to take them yourself, that’s basically the entire DCUM, people offering their perspective.

In fact, you can have an opinion about anything without knowing anything about it at all.

Ahhh, the classic “what do we know and how do we know it”, the hallmark of the IB graduate that passes off as “critical thinking”. Honestly I’m so sick of this formulaic approach to anything, that is my issue with the writing style of the IB program. It’s quite different than the writing done for most majors or careers.

Apologies if that comes off too harsh.

dp.. you are comparing a HS writing style in a specific program with workplace writing style. That's a ridiculous comparison.

IB is its own thing. Why are you comparing it to workplace writing? So strange.

That’s what I keep saying, IB is too much of its own thing.

Compare it to the writing you will do in college for most majors, that’s what the high school is supposed to prepare you for. The TOK essay doesn’t strike me as particularly useful, relevant or pertinent.

When you follow a recipe for your writing based on faux analysis and critical thinking cliches you’re going to be prepared for majors that value faux analysis and critical thinking cliches.

To be successful in college for the vast majority of majors as far as writing skills are concerned master two things: how to do a review of a topic and how to write a lab report. Unfortunately there aren’t many high schools that do this.

Ask any former IB student, and they will tell you that IBDP helped them in college. Some will even say that after IDBP, college was a cake walk.

Whatever faux analysis they wrote about, it certainly prepared them for college. The vast majority of these students end up in T50 and above, and do very well in college.

So whatever your issue with the IBDP, know that the vast majority of the graduates go on to do very well in college.

Good to know, I’m sure you have also sampled the programs with 25% IB diploma passing rate and surveyed what college they go to and how well they did afterwards.

I’m hoping you’ll be able to post without resorting these silly bragging snippets like “after IBDP, college was a cake walk”. No, it wasn’t, let’s not exaggerate.

Here's a TOK-type question: which programs are those, and where did you get that information? As far as I know, MCPS does not publish that information. MCPS does publish information about how many students took an IB test and how many of them got a score of [something, I forget what] or higher on it, but that is not the same thing. If there are schools in MCPS where only 25% of students in the IB DP end up getting the IB DP, that's news to me.

Again “what do we know and how do we know it”?

Google harder, it rhymes with Kennedy.

There were some discussions on this forum about how good the IB regional programs are and people would swear that they are amazing etc.

Receipts:
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230615_Prin%20Memo_2022%20AP%20IB%20Exam%20Participation%20and%20Performance.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

I found it pretentious and cringey, but I agree that it depends a lot on the instructor.

Most often it’s still going to regurgitate some ideas from Plato, Kant, Hume, Locke etc, albeit at poorly understood high school level.

To be honest the writing part of my DC IB program was quite underwhelming, essentially quantity over quality. It doesn’t help that the instructor is actually not capable of writing or teaching.

Instead of the extended essay I think my student would have been way better off with a solid practice of a five paragraph essay, strong understanding of grammar and a well developed vocabulary. I’d much prefer a short assignment that is well edited to be crisp and clear instead of 10 pages of rambling sentences. The teacher feedback was nonexistent, so had have to figure it out on his own.

It’s worst when the TOK is mashed with the flavor of the day of postmodernism, post colonialism, social justice soup. Then it turns into indigenous ways of knowing, all cultures are equal cliches and tropes that truly are painful to read. I found TOK to be the a very poor example of deep thinking, analysis and argumentative writing.

I second the other poster that the writing part of IB was not impressive to say the least.

I don't think you're wrong (tbh I haven't read my kid's ToK essay), but I read their college application essays and they were fantastic. I was supposed to copyedit and the only thing I saw missing was one comma.

For a student who actually likes writing, IB is great. And if the fotm is a mishmash of social justice theory and woo woo "everything is colonialism, and colonialism is bad," well, so what? Gives them a heads up on what to question about what they've learn in college when all their peers are pounding Said and Kende back like they're Baptist missionaries on a bender.

I think it's still preferable to them deciding "The Fountainhead" is the best book ever.

You can have an opinion about your kids classes without having to take them yourself, that’s basically the entire DCUM, people offering their perspective.

In fact, you can have an opinion about anything without knowing anything about it at all.

Ahhh, the classic “what do we know and how do we know it”, the hallmark of the IB graduate that passes off as “critical thinking”. Honestly I’m so sick of this formulaic approach to anything, that is my issue with the writing style of the IB program. It’s quite different than the writing done for most majors or careers.

Apologies if that comes off too harsh.

dp.. you are comparing a HS writing style in a specific program with workplace writing style. That's a ridiculous comparison.

IB is its own thing. Why are you comparing it to workplace writing? So strange.

That’s what I keep saying, IB is too much of its own thing.

Compare it to the writing you will do in college for most majors, that’s what the high school is supposed to prepare you for. The TOK essay doesn’t strike me as particularly useful, relevant or pertinent.

When you follow a recipe for your writing based on faux analysis and critical thinking cliches you’re going to be prepared for majors that value faux analysis and critical thinking cliches.

To be successful in college for the vast majority of majors as far as writing skills are concerned master two things: how to do a review of a topic and how to write a lab report. Unfortunately there aren’t many high schools that do this.

Ask any former IB student, and they will tell you that IBDP helped them in college. Some will even say that after IDBP, college was a cake walk.

Whatever faux analysis they wrote about, it certainly prepared them for college. The vast majority of these students end up in T50 and above, and do very well in college.

So whatever your issue with the IBDP, know that the vast majority of the graduates go on to do very well in college.

Good to know, I’m sure you have also sampled the programs with 25% IB diploma passing rate and surveyed what college they go to and how well they did afterwards.

I’m hoping you’ll be able to post without resorting these silly bragging snippets like “after IBDP, college was a cake walk”. No, it wasn’t, let’s not exaggerate.

Here's a TOK-type question: which programs are those, and where did you get that information? As far as I know, MCPS does not publish that information. MCPS does publish information about how many students took an IB test and how many of them got a score of [something, I forget what] or higher on it, but that is not the same thing. If there are schools in MCPS where only 25% of students in the IB DP end up getting the IB DP, that's news to me.

Again “what do we know and how do we know it”?

Google harder, it rhymes with Kennedy.

There were some discussions on this forum about how good the IB regional programs are and people would swear that they are amazing etc.

Receipts:
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230615_Prin%20Memo_2022%20AP%20IB%20Exam%20Participation%20and%20Performance.pdf

Yes, again "what do we know and how do we know it", and in fact your assertion provides an example of why those questions are important, because the data do not show what you assert they show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

I found it pretentious and cringey, but I agree that it depends a lot on the instructor.

Most often it’s still going to regurgitate some ideas from Plato, Kant, Hume, Locke etc, albeit at poorly understood high school level.

To be honest the writing part of my DC IB program was quite underwhelming, essentially quantity over quality. It doesn’t help that the instructor is actually not capable of writing or teaching.

Instead of the extended essay I think my student would have been way better off with a solid practice of a five paragraph essay, strong understanding of grammar and a well developed vocabulary. I’d much prefer a short assignment that is well edited to be crisp and clear instead of 10 pages of rambling sentences. The teacher feedback was nonexistent, so had have to figure it out on his own.

It’s worst when the TOK is mashed with the flavor of the day of postmodernism, post colonialism, social justice soup. Then it turns into indigenous ways of knowing, all cultures are equal cliches and tropes that truly are painful to read. I found TOK to be the a very poor example of deep thinking, analysis and argumentative writing.

I second the other poster that the writing part of IB was not impressive to say the least.

I don't think you're wrong (tbh I haven't read my kid's ToK essay), but I read their college application essays and they were fantastic. I was supposed to copyedit and the only thing I saw missing was one comma.

For a student who actually likes writing, IB is great. And if the fotm is a mishmash of social justice theory and woo woo "everything is colonialism, and colonialism is bad," well, so what? Gives them a heads up on what to question about what they've learn in college when all their peers are pounding Said and Kende back like they're Baptist missionaries on a bender.

I think it's still preferable to them deciding "The Fountainhead" is the best book ever.

You can have an opinion about your kids classes without having to take them yourself, that’s basically the entire DCUM, people offering their perspective.

In fact, you can have an opinion about anything without knowing anything about it at all.

Ahhh, the classic “what do we know and how do we know it”, the hallmark of the IB graduate that passes off as “critical thinking”. Honestly I’m so sick of this formulaic approach to anything, that is my issue with the writing style of the IB program. It’s quite different than the writing done for most majors or careers.

Apologies if that comes off too harsh.

dp.. you are comparing a HS writing style in a specific program with workplace writing style. That's a ridiculous comparison.

IB is its own thing. Why are you comparing it to workplace writing? So strange.

That’s what I keep saying, IB is too much of its own thing.

Compare it to the writing you will do in college for most majors, that’s what the high school is supposed to prepare you for. The TOK essay doesn’t strike me as particularly useful, relevant or pertinent.

When you follow a recipe for your writing based on faux analysis and critical thinking cliches you’re going to be prepared for majors that value faux analysis and critical thinking cliches.

To be successful in college for the vast majority of majors as far as writing skills are concerned master two things: how to do a review of a topic and how to write a lab report. Unfortunately there aren’t many high schools that do this.

says who?

You’re doing the “what do we know and how do we know it” again!

Seriously, you don’t see how your mind is held captive to these tropes? Take a step back and you’ll understand how this can be so annoying for other people because it adds nothing to the conversation.

You're using that word wrong.

But I agree with you: if you think "what do we know and how do we know it" adds nothing, then IB really is not for you.

I’m definitely using it correctly, you know the dictionary is one click away, right? At least bother to check beforehand.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trope

If all you have to say is “what do we know and how do we know it” then you really have nothing of substance to contribute, you’re just a heckler.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

I found it pretentious and cringey, but I agree that it depends a lot on the instructor.

Most often it’s still going to regurgitate some ideas from Plato, Kant, Hume, Locke etc, albeit at poorly understood high school level.

To be honest the writing part of my DC IB program was quite underwhelming, essentially quantity over quality. It doesn’t help that the instructor is actually not capable of writing or teaching.

Instead of the extended essay I think my student would have been way better off with a solid practice of a five paragraph essay, strong understanding of grammar and a well developed vocabulary. I’d much prefer a short assignment that is well edited to be crisp and clear instead of 10 pages of rambling sentences. The teacher feedback was nonexistent, so had have to figure it out on his own.

It’s worst when the TOK is mashed with the flavor of the day of postmodernism, post colonialism, social justice soup. Then it turns into indigenous ways of knowing, all cultures are equal cliches and tropes that truly are painful to read. I found TOK to be the a very poor example of deep thinking, analysis and argumentative writing.

I second the other poster that the writing part of IB was not impressive to say the least.

I don't think you're wrong (tbh I haven't read my kid's ToK essay), but I read their college application essays and they were fantastic. I was supposed to copyedit and the only thing I saw missing was one comma.

For a student who actually likes writing, IB is great. And if the fotm is a mishmash of social justice theory and woo woo "everything is colonialism, and colonialism is bad," well, so what? Gives them a heads up on what to question about what they've learn in college when all their peers are pounding Said and Kende back like they're Baptist missionaries on a bender.

I think it's still preferable to them deciding "The Fountainhead" is the best book ever.

You can have an opinion about your kids classes without having to take them yourself, that’s basically the entire DCUM, people offering their perspective.

In fact, you can have an opinion about anything without knowing anything about it at all.

Ahhh, the classic “what do we know and how do we know it”, the hallmark of the IB graduate that passes off as “critical thinking”. Honestly I’m so sick of this formulaic approach to anything, that is my issue with the writing style of the IB program. It’s quite different than the writing done for most majors or careers.

Apologies if that comes off too harsh.

dp.. you are comparing a HS writing style in a specific program with workplace writing style. That's a ridiculous comparison.

IB is its own thing. Why are you comparing it to workplace writing? So strange.

That’s what I keep saying, IB is too much of its own thing.

Compare it to the writing you will do in college for most majors, that’s what the high school is supposed to prepare you for. The TOK essay doesn’t strike me as particularly useful, relevant or pertinent.

When you follow a recipe for your writing based on faux analysis and critical thinking cliches you’re going to be prepared for majors that value faux analysis and critical thinking cliches.

To be successful in college for the vast majority of majors as far as writing skills are concerned master two things: how to do a review of a topic and how to write a lab report. Unfortunately there aren’t many high schools that do this.

Ask any former IB student, and they will tell you that IBDP helped them in college. Some will even say that after IDBP, college was a cake walk.

Whatever faux analysis they wrote about, it certainly prepared them for college. The vast majority of these students end up in T50 and above, and do very well in college.

So whatever your issue with the IBDP, know that the vast majority of the graduates go on to do very well in college.

Good to know, I’m sure you have also sampled the programs with 25% IB diploma passing rate and surveyed what college they go to and how well they did afterwards.

I’m hoping you’ll be able to post without resorting these silly bragging snippets like “after IBDP, college was a cake walk”. No, it wasn’t, let’s not exaggerate.

Here's a TOK-type question: which programs are those, and where did you get that information? As far as I know, MCPS does not publish that information. MCPS does publish information about how many students took an IB test and how many of them got a score of [something, I forget what] or higher on it, but that is not the same thing. If there are schools in MCPS where only 25% of students in the IB DP end up getting the IB DP, that's news to me.

Again “what do we know and how do we know it”?

Google harder, it rhymes with Kennedy.

There were some discussions on this forum about how good the IB regional programs are and people would swear that they are amazing etc.

Receipts:
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230615_Prin%20Memo_2022%20AP%20IB%20Exam%20Participation%20and%20Performance.pdf

Yes, again "what do we know and how do we know it", and in fact your assertion provides an example of why those questions are important, because the data do not show what you assert they show.

You can’t even make a simple deduction from that data, you just know it doesn’t show what I assert it shows. Lol, where are those critical thinking and strong analytical skills?

Regardless of what I said, what do you make of that data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

I found it pretentious and cringey, but I agree that it depends a lot on the instructor.

Most often it’s still going to regurgitate some ideas from Plato, Kant, Hume, Locke etc, albeit at poorly understood high school level.

To be honest the writing part of my DC IB program was quite underwhelming, essentially quantity over quality. It doesn’t help that the instructor is actually not capable of writing or teaching.

Instead of the extended essay I think my student would have been way better off with a solid practice of a five paragraph essay, strong understanding of grammar and a well developed vocabulary. I’d much prefer a short assignment that is well edited to be crisp and clear instead of 10 pages of rambling sentences. The teacher feedback was nonexistent, so had have to figure it out on his own.

It’s worst when the TOK is mashed with the flavor of the day of postmodernism, post colonialism, social justice soup. Then it turns into indigenous ways of knowing, all cultures are equal cliches and tropes that truly are painful to read. I found TOK to be the a very poor example of deep thinking, analysis and argumentative writing.

I second the other poster that the writing part of IB was not impressive to say the least.

I don't think you're wrong (tbh I haven't read my kid's ToK essay), but I read their college application essays and they were fantastic. I was supposed to copyedit and the only thing I saw missing was one comma.

For a student who actually likes writing, IB is great. And if the fotm is a mishmash of social justice theory and woo woo "everything is colonialism, and colonialism is bad," well, so what? Gives them a heads up on what to question about what they've learn in college when all their peers are pounding Said and Kende back like they're Baptist missionaries on a bender.

I think it's still preferable to them deciding "The Fountainhead" is the best book ever.

You can have an opinion about your kids classes without having to take them yourself, that’s basically the entire DCUM, people offering their perspective.

In fact, you can have an opinion about anything without knowing anything about it at all.

Ahhh, the classic “what do we know and how do we know it”, the hallmark of the IB graduate that passes off as “critical thinking”. Honestly I’m so sick of this formulaic approach to anything, that is my issue with the writing style of the IB program. It’s quite different than the writing done for most majors or careers.

Apologies if that comes off too harsh.

dp.. you are comparing a HS writing style in a specific program with workplace writing style. That's a ridiculous comparison.

IB is its own thing. Why are you comparing it to workplace writing? So strange.

That’s what I keep saying, IB is too much of its own thing.

Compare it to the writing you will do in college for most majors, that’s what the high school is supposed to prepare you for. The TOK essay doesn’t strike me as particularly useful, relevant or pertinent.

When you follow a recipe for your writing based on faux analysis and critical thinking cliches you’re going to be prepared for majors that value faux analysis and critical thinking cliches.

To be successful in college for the vast majority of majors as far as writing skills are concerned master two things: how to do a review of a topic and how to write a lab report. Unfortunately there aren’t many high schools that do this.

Ask any former IB student, and they will tell you that IBDP helped them in college. Some will even say that after IDBP, college was a cake walk.

Whatever faux analysis they wrote about, it certainly prepared them for college. The vast majority of these students end up in T50 and above, and do very well in college.

So whatever your issue with the IBDP, know that the vast majority of the graduates go on to do very well in college.

Good to know, I’m sure you have also sampled the programs with 25% IB diploma passing rate and surveyed what college they go to and how well they did afterwards.

I’m hoping you’ll be able to post without resorting these silly bragging snippets like “after IBDP, college was a cake walk”. No, it wasn’t, let’s not exaggerate.

Here's a TOK-type question: which programs are those, and where did you get that information? As far as I know, MCPS does not publish that information. MCPS does publish information about how many students took an IB test and how many of them got a score of [something, I forget what] or higher on it, but that is not the same thing. If there are schools in MCPS where only 25% of students in the IB DP end up getting the IB DP, that's news to me.

Again “what do we know and how do we know it”?

Google harder, it rhymes with Kennedy.

There were some discussions on this forum about how good the IB regional programs are and people would swear that they are amazing etc.

Receipts:
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230615_Prin%20Memo_2022%20AP%20IB%20Exam%20Participation%20and%20Performance.pdf

Yes, again "what do we know and how do we know it", and in fact your assertion provides an example of why those questions are important, because the data do not show what you assert they show.

You can’t even make a simple deduction from that data, you just know it doesn’t show what I assert it shows. Lol, where are those critical thinking and strong analytical skills?

Regardless of what I said, what do you make of that data?

The data don't say anything about the percentage of students in the IB DP who got the IB D. That's what I make of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

I found it pretentious and cringey, but I agree that it depends a lot on the instructor.

Most often it’s still going to regurgitate some ideas from Plato, Kant, Hume, Locke etc, albeit at poorly understood high school level.

To be honest the writing part of my DC IB program was quite underwhelming, essentially quantity over quality. It doesn’t help that the instructor is actually not capable of writing or teaching.

Instead of the extended essay I think my student would have been way better off with a solid practice of a five paragraph essay, strong understanding of grammar and a well developed vocabulary. I’d much prefer a short assignment that is well edited to be crisp and clear instead of 10 pages of rambling sentences. The teacher feedback was nonexistent, so had have to figure it out on his own.

It’s worst when the TOK is mashed with the flavor of the day of postmodernism, post colonialism, social justice soup. Then it turns into indigenous ways of knowing, all cultures are equal cliches and tropes that truly are painful to read. I found TOK to be the a very poor example of deep thinking, analysis and argumentative writing.

I second the other poster that the writing part of IB was not impressive to say the least.

I don't think you're wrong (tbh I haven't read my kid's ToK essay), but I read their college application essays and they were fantastic. I was supposed to copyedit and the only thing I saw missing was one comma.

For a student who actually likes writing, IB is great. And if the fotm is a mishmash of social justice theory and woo woo "everything is colonialism, and colonialism is bad," well, so what? Gives them a heads up on what to question about what they've learn in college when all their peers are pounding Said and Kende back like they're Baptist missionaries on a bender.

I think it's still preferable to them deciding "The Fountainhead" is the best book ever.

You can have an opinion about your kids classes without having to take them yourself, that’s basically the entire DCUM, people offering their perspective.

In fact, you can have an opinion about anything without knowing anything about it at all.

Ahhh, the classic “what do we know and how do we know it”, the hallmark of the IB graduate that passes off as “critical thinking”. Honestly I’m so sick of this formulaic approach to anything, that is my issue with the writing style of the IB program. It’s quite different than the writing done for most majors or careers.

Apologies if that comes off too harsh.

dp.. you are comparing a HS writing style in a specific program with workplace writing style. That's a ridiculous comparison.

IB is its own thing. Why are you comparing it to workplace writing? So strange.

That’s what I keep saying, IB is too much of its own thing.

Compare it to the writing you will do in college for most majors, that’s what the high school is supposed to prepare you for. The TOK essay doesn’t strike me as particularly useful, relevant or pertinent.

When you follow a recipe for your writing based on faux analysis and critical thinking cliches you’re going to be prepared for majors that value faux analysis and critical thinking cliches.

To be successful in college for the vast majority of majors as far as writing skills are concerned master two things: how to do a review of a topic and how to write a lab report. Unfortunately there aren’t many high schools that do this.

says who?

You’re doing the “what do we know and how do we know it” again!

Seriously, you don’t see how your mind is held captive to these tropes? Take a step back and you’ll understand how this can be so annoying for other people because it adds nothing to the conversation.

You're using that word wrong.

But I agree with you: if you think "what do we know and how do we know it" adds nothing, then IB really is not for you.

I’m definitely using it correctly, you know the dictionary is one click away, right? At least bother to check beforehand.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trope

If all you have to say is “what do we know and how do we know it” then you really have nothing of substance to contribute, you’re just a heckler.

Trope
1a
: a word or expression used in a figurative sense : figure of speech
b: a common or overused theme or device : cliché
the usual horror movie tropes
2: a phrase or verse added as an embellishment or interpolation to the sung parts of the Mass in the Middle Ages

"What do we know and how do we know it" is not a trope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

I found it pretentious and cringey, but I agree that it depends a lot on the instructor.

Most often it’s still going to regurgitate some ideas from Plato, Kant, Hume, Locke etc, albeit at poorly understood high school level.

To be honest the writing part of my DC IB program was quite underwhelming, essentially quantity over quality. It doesn’t help that the instructor is actually not capable of writing or teaching.

Instead of the extended essay I think my student would have been way better off with a solid practice of a five paragraph essay, strong understanding of grammar and a well developed vocabulary. I’d much prefer a short assignment that is well edited to be crisp and clear instead of 10 pages of rambling sentences. The teacher feedback was nonexistent, so had have to figure it out on his own.

It’s worst when the TOK is mashed with the flavor of the day of postmodernism, post colonialism, social justice soup. Then it turns into indigenous ways of knowing, all cultures are equal cliches and tropes that truly are painful to read. I found TOK to be the a very poor example of deep thinking, analysis and argumentative writing.

I second the other poster that the writing part of IB was not impressive to say the least.

I don't think you're wrong (tbh I haven't read my kid's ToK essay), but I read their college application essays and they were fantastic. I was supposed to copyedit and the only thing I saw missing was one comma.

For a student who actually likes writing, IB is great. And if the fotm is a mishmash of social justice theory and woo woo "everything is colonialism, and colonialism is bad," well, so what? Gives them a heads up on what to question about what they've learn in college when all their peers are pounding Said and Kende back like they're Baptist missionaries on a bender.

I think it's still preferable to them deciding "The Fountainhead" is the best book ever.

You can have an opinion about your kids classes without having to take them yourself, that’s basically the entire DCUM, people offering their perspective.

In fact, you can have an opinion about anything without knowing anything about it at all.

Ahhh, the classic “what do we know and how do we know it”, the hallmark of the IB graduate that passes off as “critical thinking”. Honestly I’m so sick of this formulaic approach to anything, that is my issue with the writing style of the IB program. It’s quite different than the writing done for most majors or careers.

Apologies if that comes off too harsh.

dp.. you are comparing a HS writing style in a specific program with workplace writing style. That's a ridiculous comparison.

IB is its own thing. Why are you comparing it to workplace writing? So strange.

That’s what I keep saying, IB is too much of its own thing.

Compare it to the writing you will do in college for most majors, that’s what the high school is supposed to prepare you for. The TOK essay doesn’t strike me as particularly useful, relevant or pertinent.

When you follow a recipe for your writing based on faux analysis and critical thinking cliches you’re going to be prepared for majors that value faux analysis and critical thinking cliches.

To be successful in college for the vast majority of majors as far as writing skills are concerned master two things: how to do a review of a topic and how to write a lab report. Unfortunately there aren’t many high schools that do this.

says who?

You’re doing the “what do we know and how do we know it” again!

Seriously, you don’t see how your mind is held captive to these tropes? Take a step back and you’ll understand how this can be so annoying for other people because it adds nothing to the conversation.

You're using that word wrong.

But I agree with you: if you think "what do we know and how do we know it" adds nothing, then IB really is not for you.

I’m definitely using it correctly, you know the dictionary is one click away, right? At least bother to check beforehand.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trope

If all you have to say is “what do we know and how do we know it” then you really have nothing of substance to contribute, you’re just a heckler.

Trope
1a
: a word or expression used in a figurative sense : figure of speech
b: a common or overused theme or device : cliché
the usual horror movie tropes
2: a phrase or verse added as an embellishment or interpolation to the sung parts of the Mass in the Middle Ages

"What do we know and how do we know it" is not a trope.

As far as you’re concerned it’s most certainly an overused theme.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

I found it pretentious and cringey, but I agree that it depends a lot on the instructor.

Most often it’s still going to regurgitate some ideas from Plato, Kant, Hume, Locke etc, albeit at poorly understood high school level.

To be honest the writing part of my DC IB program was quite underwhelming, essentially quantity over quality. It doesn’t help that the instructor is actually not capable of writing or teaching.

Instead of the extended essay I think my student would have been way better off with a solid practice of a five paragraph essay, strong understanding of grammar and a well developed vocabulary. I’d much prefer a short assignment that is well edited to be crisp and clear instead of 10 pages of rambling sentences. The teacher feedback was nonexistent, so had have to figure it out on his own.

It’s worst when the TOK is mashed with the flavor of the day of postmodernism, post colonialism, social justice soup. Then it turns into indigenous ways of knowing, all cultures are equal cliches and tropes that truly are painful to read. I found TOK to be the a very poor example of deep thinking, analysis and argumentative writing.

I second the other poster that the writing part of IB was not impressive to say the least.

I don't think you're wrong (tbh I haven't read my kid's ToK essay), but I read their college application essays and they were fantastic. I was supposed to copyedit and the only thing I saw missing was one comma.

For a student who actually likes writing, IB is great. And if the fotm is a mishmash of social justice theory and woo woo "everything is colonialism, and colonialism is bad," well, so what? Gives them a heads up on what to question about what they've learn in college when all their peers are pounding Said and Kende back like they're Baptist missionaries on a bender.

I think it's still preferable to them deciding "The Fountainhead" is the best book ever.

You can have an opinion about your kids classes without having to take them yourself, that’s basically the entire DCUM, people offering their perspective.

In fact, you can have an opinion about anything without knowing anything about it at all.

Ahhh, the classic “what do we know and how do we know it”, the hallmark of the IB graduate that passes off as “critical thinking”. Honestly I’m so sick of this formulaic approach to anything, that is my issue with the writing style of the IB program. It’s quite different than the writing done for most majors or careers.

Apologies if that comes off too harsh.

dp.. you are comparing a HS writing style in a specific program with workplace writing style. That's a ridiculous comparison.

IB is its own thing. Why are you comparing it to workplace writing? So strange.

That’s what I keep saying, IB is too much of its own thing.

Compare it to the writing you will do in college for most majors, that’s what the high school is supposed to prepare you for. The TOK essay doesn’t strike me as particularly useful, relevant or pertinent.

When you follow a recipe for your writing based on faux analysis and critical thinking cliches you’re going to be prepared for majors that value faux analysis and critical thinking cliches.

To be successful in college for the vast majority of majors as far as writing skills are concerned master two things: how to do a review of a topic and how to write a lab report. Unfortunately there aren’t many high schools that do this.

Ask any former IB student, and they will tell you that IBDP helped them in college. Some will even say that after IDBP, college was a cake walk.

Whatever faux analysis they wrote about, it certainly prepared them for college. The vast majority of these students end up in T50 and above, and do very well in college.

So whatever your issue with the IBDP, know that the vast majority of the graduates go on to do very well in college.

Good to know, I’m sure you have also sampled the programs with 25% IB diploma passing rate and surveyed what college they go to and how well they did afterwards.

I’m hoping you’ll be able to post without resorting these silly bragging snippets like “after IBDP, college was a cake walk”. No, it wasn’t, let’s not exaggerate.

Here's a TOK-type question: which programs are those, and where did you get that information? As far as I know, MCPS does not publish that information. MCPS does publish information about how many students took an IB test and how many of them got a score of [something, I forget what] or higher on it, but that is not the same thing. If there are schools in MCPS where only 25% of students in the IB DP end up getting the IB DP, that's news to me.

Again “what do we know and how do we know it”?

Google harder, it rhymes with Kennedy.

There were some discussions on this forum about how good the IB regional programs are and people would swear that they are amazing etc.

Receipts:
https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2023/230615_Prin%20Memo_2022%20AP%20IB%20Exam%20Participation%20and%20Performance.pdf

Yes, again "what do we know and how do we know it", and in fact your assertion provides an example of why those questions are important, because the data do not show what you assert they show.

You can’t even make a simple deduction from that data, you just know it doesn’t show what I assert it shows. Lol, where are those critical thinking and strong analytical skills?

Regardless of what I said, what do you make of that data?

The data don't say anything about the percentage of students in the IB DP who got the IB D. That's what I make of it.

Of course because MCPS is doing its best not to put themselves in a bad light. But even by their own numbers the average passing rate of IB exams at Kennedy is 65% and that doesn’t include the kids that took the class but didn’t take the exam. From here it’s quite easy to figure out the diploma rate for 6 exams won’t be stellar. RMIB on the other hand is a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My post defending Kennedy and elaborating on my kid's college acceptances gets deleted, but posters who have never sent kids there are free to slag on the school and its programs.

Make that make sense. I offer you actual information...

College admission does not equal competent and well educated. But no one is disputing that there is a handful of smart kids at Kennedy. That's a pretty low bar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

OP, did she get in? Will she accept, if she got in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know the TOK class is required but does anyone know what is taught in that class?

It’s my DD’s favorite class she’s ever taken.

It’s basically epistemology—what do we know, and how do we know it? Why is knowledge important? How does it relate to concepts like culture and community? She loves it because it’s very analytical, and favors deep thinking and argumentative writing over regurgitating facts.

They do a good bit of writing and some presentations, but in general it’s kind of an overarching theory class that is supposed to tie together all the other courses they take. But I’m sure the quality depends a lot on the instructor, too.

One of the things that she and you should learn in a class about "ways of knowing" is that there is no "deep thinking" and analysis without being able to "regurgitate facts." Facts are the things that are used as the basis of, and evidence for, analysis. There is nothing "low level" about learning content, and if you denigrate factual knowledge, the result is self-important, emotional people who have to rely on name calling and "lived experience" as their only techniques for argumentation. Hmmm, sounds like adolescents I know. - HS teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%).

OP, did she get in? Will she accept, if she got in?

As posted earlier, she got in. She will probably accept but will wait for the info night to make a decision.

[Anonymous]

My daughter decided to go to the JFK Regional IB Program but I wonder what the acceptance rate for that is because I've heard that it isn't nearly as competitive as the RM Program. Is the RM program better than the one they provide at JFK?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter decided to go to the JFK Regional IB Program but I wonder what the acceptance rate for that is because I've heard that it isn't nearly as competitive as the RM Program. Is the RM program better than the one they provide at JFK?

RM is more competitive to get into, so they have more high flyers from around the county. But it's the same IB diploma when all is said and done.