Reply to What are my child's chances of getting into the IB program?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]My daughter is in 8th grade. She wants to go to the IB program at RM. She enjoys english and history class but doesn't like math. She also really enjoys her foreign language and she skipped level 2 of the language. Her spring map r was a 262 and her fall was 253 (don't know what happened there). Her extracurriculars are okay (should have pushed her more lol). However, I have heard that this program is very stressful and has a lot of work. It is also very hard to get in. Do you think it is a good fit for her and what are her chances of gettting in? (I'm hoping for at least 70%). [/quote]

The chances are slim. These decisions are random. Even if your child is a great fit, I wouldn't count on it.[/quote]

Not random for HS criteria-based magnets: application/review/selection.

There have been modifications over the past few years to the application process that make the information available to reviewers more constrcted than before, in an attempt to limit bias.  From that perspective, it may appear more random.

The litmus/lottery approach currently applies to elementary and middle school criteria-based programs (CES, Humanities, Math/Science/CS).[/quote]

The criteria makes it random. 400 applicants appear comparable on paper so only way to distinguish is random.[/quote]

This feels like sour grapes. If you count the regional IB magnets, there are plenty of spaces for kids who are qualified and interested. Most kids accepted to RMIB are also accepted to their "regional" IB program, which means a ton of spots often open up in the regional program. Now, you may or may not think that choice is valid or worth the commute, but it is a bona fide magnet program offering four years of cohorted classes and a full IB diploma option. [/quote]

That's great as long as they offer equivalent access to every flavor of IB class that is available at RMIB to any student at the regional/local IB programs.  Is that the case, no matter how few request that at a particular school in a given semester/year?[/quote]

You're the pedantic parent who keeps yammering on about this based on schools your kid didn't attend, and IB programs you've never seen.

To the best of their ability, the regional programs offer a wide variety of IB programs, and no, they don't offer AP calc and call it IB. HL IB math is its own thing. Actually there's more than one version of it at my kids' regional IB, and no, I don't know the specifics because my IB kid is a math dum-dum who takes the two-year SL class. There's not that many who do.

I would really like if we could talk about regional IBs without having people chime in to tell us:

1.) They're inferior 
2.) All IB programs are inferior.

This isn't true. And I'm very tired of explaining.

You're just coming across as someone who may be a bit ND and can't let go of the fact that they have to show us how their child is superior. Repeatedly. When I say you come across ND I don't mean that to be cruel, it's just the kindest reason I can come up with as to why you feel like you need to repeatedly contribute to this thread about schools your kids don't attend, and won't attend.

I wish you and your family all the best. And I'm very happy our children don't go to the same school. [/quote]

I think IB may have some benefits, but we’re restricting this discussion to the math pathway, consisting of algebra, geometry, (statistics), precalculus, calculus, multivariable, linear algebra, differential equations that form the foundation of high schools/undergraduate general education in mathematics for many majors and career paths.

IB along with AP and DE are some of the ways to access these courses, there’s nothing magic about the IB program that makes it notably better than the other options. If anything the IB HL math is an awkward combination of precalculus, calculus and statistics that is not the most complete or flexible arrangement. Ok, maybe it’s passable because you also have to write a ten page essay on theory of knowledge. Not sure why this is so amazing, but you can argue it’s different from the problem sets you typically do in other classes.

The question in the previous post was why chose the IB path if other options like AP and DE are available. If you’ve done AP calculus BC there’s zero reason to take two years of HL math and I maintain it’s a waste of time compared to following the sequence with multivariable, linear algebra and differential equations. If anyone has a good argument I would really like to consider it.

Often the defense of the program is something along the lines “my niece was at RMIB and she’s now at UVA and is totally not afraid to tackle on essay assignments that are 5 pages single spaced.” While I agree that knowing how to write well is important, I don’t think it’s a substitute for rigorous math education and it’s much easier to learn how to write than to build up a solid foundation in math.
[/quote]

I see what you did, there.  Sure, you're pedantic, but you're not the pedantic-termed poster who talked about reasonable equivalence among IBs to whom the PP was replying.

With blithe discussion of MVC/DE/LA on the one hand and reference to dual enrollment on the other, a reader might think that MCPS provides that equivalence, when, in reality, there is a different burden on students taking those courses via dual enrollment versus those provided them in house.   Of course, that's talking about particularly advanced math students, however they might have found themselves there.

Sure, those students may have the breadth of interest to pursue an IB experience.  Indeed, APs and other college-level courses, when accessible, can provide more than the academics needed for IB.  However, there are plenty with that breadth, but perhaps not quite that depth in math, for whom access to HL IB Analysis (or it's equivalent, providing a solid calc foundation along with, gasp!, stats -- quite useful to the vast majority, but often pooh-pooh'd by hard-science/engineering/math-or-nothing folks) should not be in question.

But it is, isn't it?

The discussion [i]isn't[/i] just about math, and it didn't start off that way, either.  It moved that direction because of an observation about course availability differences among the MCPS IBs.

If they were all the same, few would be so interested in RMIB (some applying with the intention to go only if they don't get into SMCS, though a few schools may offer higher local options for math) when there are closer options.  OP's interest for their DC is a case in point, highlighted by insights provided by a number of posters, including those with good information about the changes that are part of standing up the regional IBs.

Those will take time, and dedication by MCPS, to achieve that equivalence (if that is, indeed, the aim; it would be easy to cast a jaundiced eye and see it as better enabling pearl clutchers by providing bread & circuses to others if they aren't immediate and strong with that dedication to meeting all students where they are).  In the meantime, families should have a clear idea of the choices and the differences among them.[/quote]

As an editor, I find it hard to imagine your own high school English teacher being okay with your Byzantine sentences. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm sure you write an excellent RFP, or white paper, or brief, or whatever professional document is within your profession, but the opacity of your argument obscures it.

You are obsessed with an "equity" you have yet to prove doesn't exist, or ever can exist, and advanced math, which you like to remind us (again), is a topic that interests you, although, (again), it did not interest the original poster's DD.

IB isn't the right program for every student. Obviously, it is not a program you like. I don't know if you're the teacher forced to teach it (I remember someone like that from one thread), or a parent whose kid didn't get into RMIB, or a parent who just thinks SMAC is better... and I don't care because it's not relevant. But I wish, whatever point you're trying to make, it was more clear. Are you saying that it will take time for MCPS to sort out its IB programs? Sure. Are you saying that more people are interested in RMIB than the regionals? Again, sure. People are sheep. They want the proven entity, the sure thing, the scarce, competitive thing. Look at you and your affection for Blair's STEM program.

But there are lids for every pot, and having more lids and more pots doesn't have to take anything away from *your* stove... so why are you so critical about academics you haven't experienced? [/quote]

Please look at the just-past post.  Whether due to complexity of writing or inattentive reading, you've conflated:

"Not all MCPS IB programs are equal.  MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others.  Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that.  Equity (broadly defined) is important.  (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.)  Families should be aware as they make choices."

with:

"IB isn't all that.  Better, higher-level math is available."

[/quote]

No, I wasn't conflating those two posts at all. The second one, I don't agree, but the writing is concise and the opinion is quite clear.

The first one, (presumably written by you),

[i]Not all MCPS IB programs are equal.  MCPS should do a better job of providing enough seats with reasonable equivalence to meet all students where they are instead of under-seating and enabling better options for some than others.[/i]

You've never proven the programs are unequal. [b]You didn't even know the regional ones had applications until we told you.[/b][/quote]

Except that you [i]are[/i], once again, conflating.  I was not the poster who didn't know about regional IBs.

[quote]You based the idea that regional programs are inferior on [b]some fuzzy hand waving about the math classes that are offered[/b]. Never mind that several people chimed in from regionals and said those math classes are offered. [/quote]

No, I base it on my conversations with MCPS admins, school principals, parents at PTA meetings and IB program coordinators over the past two to three years.  There's a ton of hedging on the MCPS side, but it comes down to, "No, it doesn't get offered if we don't think there is enough 'community pull' for it."  It may be offered some places at some times, but not consistently enough not to leave interested students without a large enough cohort (generally, outside the countywide RMIB magnet and, apparently, B-CC) out in the cold.  And the response, there, is typically a platitudinous, "Don't worry, your child will be fine."  :roll:

Others have chimed in with their own anecdotes, and I don't doubt their personal experiences, but nobody directly answered whether all the courses offered at RMIB are equivalently avaialble to any IB student at the other IB schools.  I'm guessing this may be because they can't -- MCPS does a terrible job of allowing detailed comparison -- and relying on my conversations to maintain that it isn't so until relly shown otherwise.

[quote]You throw in the point that there aren't enough seats. [b]One assumes you mean at RMIB. My own inference here is your child did not get into RMIB and you did not want to send them to a regional program.[/b] Given that framework, I understand your opinion... and you. [/quote]

RMIB, but most criteria-based programs, too.  Your inference is not correct -- don't set up another strawman -- and if you understand me, othwrwise, you appear not to address the issue as though you do.

[quote][i]Lots of students, regardless of location, can benefit from advanced programming, and good IB programs would be a part of that.  Equity (broadly defined) is important.  (Not that narrowly defined equity isn't important.)  Families should be aware as they make choices."[/i]

You throw in some platitudes here about equity, although it's not at all clear what kind of equity you're talking about. I assume broad equity is socioeconomic and cultural? And narrow equity is... just for IB classes and mostly math? [/quote]

In this case, broad is, within a school system, meeting students where they are/where they can be without differences based on a large number of demographic factors, specifically including zip code within that system.  Narrow is picking one or a very few of those demographic factors on which to base an evaluation of just provision of services.

[quote]You want Montgomery County to offer every student at every school the same classes? That would be terrific, although sadly too late for my kid who got waitlisted for VAC and had to take IB Art because their school had no VAC. How will we be paying for that? And will they offer classes in alchemical sorcery too? [/quote]

Unless it's specifically constrained to limited-duration pilots, which are often necessary to evaluate programs before roll-out, MCPS should be allocating resources best to ensure that students at each school (or within each catchment, if magnets can properly and equitably serve well-identified populations) have similar educational experience opportunities.  The exact same class may be too difficult in some cases and not desired in others, but when we talk about something like IB, then, yes, access to HL shouldn't be something families and students even have to question, no matter where they are.

MCPS magnets haven't grown in proportion to the student population.  Opening regionals and aiming to serve the population with local programs is a fine strategy, but only if it provides that broad equity.  We shouldn't be allocating resources that reinforce differences that reflect opportunity.

&lt;aside: Alchemical Sorcery doesn't hold a candle to Silmaril Studies.&gt;

[quote]We share an opinion that challenging more students is good.[/quote]

Glad for that.  Hope there's more we share.[/quote]

Different poster, but you should have done this research before enrolling your child in his current program. Of course you can’t have an absolute uniform educational experience across all schools in the district. That’s the point for the existence of magnets, to select students that are stronger academically so they can be served through differentiated coursework that wouldn’t be feasible resource wise to be provided at non-magnet schools.

You’d have to be more specific to why it’s unfair and not equitable to your child. If it’s just that HL analysis is not offered, do they have the option to take HL approaches, or all math is SL? Is AP statistics and Calculus an option? Really, you should have looked into the course offering beforehand, that’s quite obvious.[/quote]

Aaaand...we have, yet again, a poster who is reading something that is not there.  I just mentioned to the prior poster that the inference that my child "didn't get in" was wrong.  Why try to make it personal when the observations apply to MCPS in general?  It amounts to another straw man.

It also isn't about the [i]existence[/i] of magnets.  Magnets are one approach to meeting students where they are.

It's about failing to provide for reasonable equivalence of that or other non-standard programming across the large student population equitably and with fidelity.  For IB, that includes when someone at a regional, with a roughly equivalent profile to those selected for the too-few-seats countywide magnet, is informed that a HL class won't be offered at their school, while it is at the countywide magnet and, perhaps, certain others to which they do not have access based on their place of residence.
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