St. Ann’s (NYC) - Private School Horror Show

[Anonymous]

Kids get counseled out of schools all the time. All the time. And they don't go on to commit suicide. I don't hold St. A's liable at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids get counseled out of schools all the time. All the time. And they don't go on to commit suicide. I don't hold St. A's liable at all.

+1

[Anonymous]

I read the article and think his parents did a grave disservice by keeping him there. In their grief, they are suing the school, but I cannot see any logical reason why this school would be liable for this boy’s suicide.

Very sad story all around. But the parents’ actions are questionable to me

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids get counseled out of schools all the time. All the time. And they don't go on to commit suicide. I don't hold St. A's liable at all.

You can still act poorly and contribute to a tragic outcome, without it rising to the level of legal liability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading the NYT article about the suicide at St. Ann’s in NYC after a talented but dyslexic boy was “counseled out” just reaffirmed to me that private schools are places for horrible, cut-throat administrators who are happy to accept collateral damage to kids as long as they can rake in the bucks and cultivate their elite image.

I truly hope this boy’s parents who are suing bankrupt that school - and that parents who participate in this vicious game appreciate that this type of tragedy could one day befall them as well.

Wow. Generalize much? There were some suicides among local public school kids in the last few years also.

[Anonymous]

This is heartbreaking. If a school as so much hinted to us as parents that they had concerns whether a kid of ours could be successful there (the early ‘counsel out’ conversations), we would have our kid out so fast. I would spend our energy on getting them into a place that is a better fit and not trying to stay. I really don’t understand why parents work so hard to keep a kid anywhere. It’s not worth it.

[Anonymous]

places for horrible, cut-throat administrators who are happy to accept collateral damage to kids as long as they can rake in the bucks and cultivate their elite image.

Yeah, who would have thought that a place with a 50K price tag would be like that? Really a shock.

[Anonymous]

It seems the school has not filed a response, or it's not public. Is that normal?
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=Ulp_PLUS_HbU7t69L8imZGN9yxw==&display=all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally would not keep my child at a school that told me it cannot meet his needs.

It’s not at all clear the school said anything so direct to the family.

It was very clear in the article.

No, it wasn’t. And in any event, the school kept renewing enrollment. That’s as big an endorsement of “you belong here” that you can get.

I think the school was hoping that the parents would take the hint and move the child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We do know that the school sent the decline to enroll in February, which is too late to transfer elsewhere

I am in full agreement that they should have let the family know of the decline earlier, so that they could apply to privates specializing in kids with disabilities, if private is what they wanted. However, it is not accurate to say it was "too late to transfer elsewhere." Public school, which the vast majority of children in the US attend, and is legally required to provide accommodations, is always an option.

I live in NY. February is far too late for applying to publics (which is what we do here). That window closes before Christmas. The city would have placed him at one of our 400 high schools with seats open - so not a great one. By February, families would have missed out doing all the crazy things we do here: rank schools maybe write an essay maybe take a test maybe audition and def tour the schools. The process is especially important for a family who will be ranking schools with a lot of support.

[Anonymous]

I am in full agreement that they should have let the family know of the decline earlier, so that they could apply to privates specializing in kids with disabilities, if private is what they wanted. However, it is not accurate to say it was "too late to transfer elsewhere." Public school, which the vast majority of children in the US attend, and is legally required to provide accommodations, is always an option.


I live in NY. February is far too late for applying to publics (which is what we do here). That window closes before Christmas. The city would have placed him at one of our 400 high schools with seats open - so not a great one. By February, families would have missed out doing all the crazy things we do here: rank schools maybe write an essay maybe take a test maybe audition and def tour the schools. The process is especially important for a family who will be ranking schools with a lot of support.

That process really seems to disadvantage kids whose parents cannot support them in the process. My 13 year old has ADHD, but is in all regular classes here in the DC area, with an IEP for emotional regulation only (and a 504 for academics). I cannot imagine him being able to take on that process without a huge amount of help from me.

[Anonymous]

I also want to say that St Ann's is not a cutthroat private school. No grades, no note taking, heavy interest in the arts. Puppetry and poetry are really big. A lot of self directed learning. I know parents who have been frustrated with the lack of rigor (ie they can spend an entire 11th grade semester on one novel .. which , okay, but kids go to college really not used to demands).

Admissions favors the rich and famous, by a lot, which helps with college admissions (full pay plus famous name). But also lots of room for grads to move on to places like SCAD and Culinary Institute or Parsons or Stella Adler or undefined gap years.

Which is all to say, I don't think it's unusual for a kid to be evaluated in early years as potentially an issue and then parents thought the ship was righted. And a kid whose future looked more like artist-baker than IB grinder would NOT be out of the norm. Because they all have granddad's money.

And I do understand the anger that comes from "We Celebrate the Individual Child .. except you, son"

I really understand counseling out a behavior case from St Ann's or an academic case from most other privates. But this case from St Ann's seems unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also want to say that St Ann's is not a cutthroat private school. No grades, no note taking, heavy interest in the arts. Puppetry and poetry are really big. A lot of self directed learning. I know parents who have been frustrated with the lack of rigor (ie they can spend an entire 11th grade semester on one novel .. which , okay, but kids go to college really not used to demands).

Admissions favors the rich and famous, by a lot, which helps with college admissions (full pay plus famous name). But also lots of room for grads to move on to places like SCAD and Culinary Institute or Parsons or Stella Adler or undefined gap years.

Which is all to say, I don't think it's unusual for a kid to be evaluated in early years as potentially an issue and then parents thought the ship was righted. And a kid whose future looked more like artist-baker than IB grinder would NOT be out of the norm. Because they all have granddad's money.

And I do understand the anger that comes from "We Celebrate the Individual Child .. except you, son"

I really understand counseling out a behavior case from St Ann's or an academic case from most other privates. But this case from St Ann's seems unnecessary.

10 bucks says the St Ann's administrators really wanted that seat and they already had a famous-wealthy family in mind to take it. They had to jettison this kid for a new entrant to 9th grade.

How many kids enter St Ann's in 9th grade? I'm sure current families can pretty easily figure out who it was that took the kid's seat. Bigger fish in a small pond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also want to say that St Ann's is not a cutthroat private school. No grades, no note taking, heavy interest in the arts. Puppetry and poetry are really big. A lot of self directed learning. I know parents who have been frustrated with the lack of rigor (ie they can spend an entire 11th grade semester on one novel .. which , okay, but kids go to college really not used to demands).

Admissions favors the rich and famous, by a lot, which helps with college admissions (full pay plus famous name). But also lots of room for grads to move on to places like SCAD and Culinary Institute or Parsons or Stella Adler or undefined gap years.

Which is all to say, I don't think it's unusual for a kid to be evaluated in early years as potentially an issue and then parents thought the ship was righted. And a kid whose future looked more like artist-baker than IB grinder would NOT be out of the norm. Because they all have granddad's money.

And I do understand the anger that comes from "We Celebrate the Individual Child .. except you, son"

I really understand counseling out a behavior case from St Ann's or an academic case from most other privates. But this case from St Ann's seems unnecessary.

10 bucks says the St Ann's administrators really wanted that seat and they already had a famous-wealthy family in mind to take it. They had to jettison this kid for a new entrant to 9th grade.

How many kids enter St Ann's in 9th grade? I'm sure current families can pretty easily figure out who it was that took the kid's seat. Bigger fish in a small pond.

If they really want an applicant, any private school will find the room. They don't have to "jettison" a kid to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We do know that the school sent the decline to enroll in February, which is too late to transfer elsewhere

I am in full agreement that they should have let the family know of the decline earlier, so that they could apply to privates specializing in kids with disabilities, if private is what they wanted. However, it is not accurate to say it was "too late to transfer elsewhere." Public school, which the vast majority of children in the US attend, and is legally required to provide accommodations, is always an option.

I live in NY. February is far too late for applying to publics (which is what we do here). That window closes before Christmas. The city would have placed him at one of our 400 high schools with seats open - so not a great one. By February, families would have missed out doing all the crazy things we do here: rank schools maybe write an essay maybe take a test maybe audition and def tour the schools. The process is especially important for a family who will be ranking schools with a lot of support.

But what is a school to do if they have tried to counsel out FOR YEARS but the parents won't listen? There will inevitably come a year when the school will need step up and deny a contract for the upcoming school year. This almost always happens in the early spring at independents. We'll never know what really happened. The school could have said that he was not being offered a spot back in the fall, but the parents didn't truly believe it until they didn't get an actual contract in February.