Companies are on the war path against remote work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cities threatening to get rid of tax breaks for companies if they don’t RTO, because apparently small businesses are suffering, downtowns are becoming ghost towns, CRE values are plummeting & public transportation is being crime-filled due to normies no longer taking it.

Public transit is doomed. After 3 years of hygiene obsession and isolation, cramming onto subway trains is just too traumatic for most people. If they are RTO for 3 days a week, they can drive the super commute for those 3 days and recover before the weekend. Still better than before times and train transit.

People are full on murdering each other on trains. Traffic is going to get really really bad, but more people will invest in AI cruise control and watch movies as their car creeps along following the car in front of it.

Not “most people”. The amount of riders on bus and metro still keeps going up and hasn’t leveled off. My most COVID careful friend started taking metro again, but still masks. Most people have also started flying again.

Nobody is wearing masks.

Person you quoted. A few people are. Do you even use transit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

I’m actually a parent with young children who loves the flexibility of remote work. But I am also a realist. You are all replaceable believe it or not. Acting like you can call the shots is really not reality. Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes is immature and will not make it all go away. You will be fired and demoted. And there are many who are unemployed and desperate to take your place.

Are you posting from 2008?

You might regret that sarcastic comment not that long from now.

Just because things are okay now doesn’t mean they’ll stay that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

So you think people weren’t pushing back in 2021? It was wayyyy worse then with people threatening to quit and you couldn’t hire anyone from overseas AND the government was supplementing income for some of that time.

For those talking about morale? Whose morale?

Not everyone wants to telework. Many of the screaming WFH people are just bullying and drowning out all the other voices.

And not everyone wants to commute into an office 5 days a week to sit in traffic, “collaborate”, and waste time talking to some old guy named Bill about the weather or some sexist joke his in-law made.

There are nearly no people talking about 5 days in the office for knowledge workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

So you think people weren’t pushing back in 2021? It was wayyyy worse then with people threatening to quit and you couldn’t hire anyone from overseas AND the government was supplementing income for some of that time.

For those talking about morale? Whose morale?

Not everyone wants to telework. Many of the screaming WFH people are just bullying and drowning out all the other voices.

And not everyone wants to commute into an office 5 days a week to sit in traffic, “collaborate”, and waste time talking to some old guy named Bill about the weather or some sexist joke his in-law made.

There are nearly no people talking about 5 days in the office for knowledge workers.

Did you read this thread? About 1/3 of people here want us back all in the office fulltime because apparently, remote workers are all lazy and we just watch Netflix all day, apparently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

So you think people weren’t pushing back in 2021? It was wayyyy worse then with people threatening to quit and you couldn’t hire anyone from overseas AND the government was supplementing income for some of that time.

For those talking about morale? Whose morale?

Not everyone wants to telework. Many of the screaming WFH people are just bullying and drowning out all the other voices.

Bullying? Are you 12?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cities threatening to get rid of tax breaks for companies if they don’t RTO, because apparently small businesses are suffering, downtowns are becoming ghost towns, CRE values are plummeting & public transportation is being crime-filled due to normies no longer taking it.

Honestly, I am sick and tired if the FT WFH evangelists acting like these are not valid concerns. They are. Acting as if they are not is making the RTO worse. If you’re unwilling to meet halfway with hybrid, they’ll just make everyone come in all the time. The war path is over. People go back now.

Lots of people making $250k+ & WFH have the assets to retire or part-time freelance and would rather do that than RTO.

Bye then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

I’m actually a parent with young children who loves the flexibility of remote work. But I am also a realist. You are all replaceable believe it or not. Acting like you can call the shots is really not reality. Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes is immature and will not make it all go away. You will be fired and demoted. And there are many who are unemployed and desperate to take your place.

All I know is that we’ve had job postings for my group we can’t fill. We’ve been able to fill a few positions and the candidates haven’t been that great at all. I’m a top performer and my manager doesn’t want to lose me. As an individual I feel a lot of power to demand WFH. I know many others in the same position. The longer this goes on, the more normal it seems to WFH. At this point I don’t think many people care.

+1

I work five days a week in person but my DH is in a similar position to you. Lots of people quit his company during the pandemic and the people they’ve hired just don’t produce enough. He’s very experience and basically told his employer he would quit if they didn’t let him stay fully remote. So he’s fully remote. They need him currently more than he needs them (and yes he could find another job quite quickly, he’s been head hunted several times already).

[Anonymous]

My boss said she would quit if they made her go in more than 1x per week. She's kinda badass like that though and I think they know she would and they couldn't easily replace her because she does some kinda quantum aerospace engineering that I don't understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The last several posts hurling insults are why it is impossible to have a reasonable debate/conversation on this issue.

Agreed. The problem with WFHers is that their arguments are not genuine but a deflection from a lifestyle choice. They’ll claim they work extra hours, are more efficient, will quit, etc., but they really just want to wake-up late, work three hours, run errands, watch Netflix, complain about Zoom calls, set work “boundaries”, insist on higher pay and better benefits, and on and on. Responsible workers of all stripes are tired of their whining because we all know it’s a facade. Management just needs to get strong and force them out. Thankfully, tougher economic times are just what management needs to turn the screws on these slackers.

I WFH most of the time, as does my neighbor. She and I were commiserating this morning over the 60+ hour weeks we’ve each just had (not including the work we did on Sunday). My commute was about 12hrs a week, and hers closer to 15. Both of our employers are talking about forcing RTO. We’re in our fifties and don’t have the extra energy to keep up this amount of work plus the commute. You want to see slacking? We would absolutely work less if we had to RTO full time now.

[Anonymous]

My spouse drives an hour to work to do zoom calls most of the day and an 90+ minute drive home. Why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys really have NO power. Companies and agencies are going to order you back to work. You will have no choice but to work in the office for your current employer or if you quit, your future employer. No-one cares if you bring your bologna sandwich from home or not - enough people will buy lunch and coffee and shop at lunchtime for last minute gifts. You guys keep thinking your individual experiences carry so much weight when they don't. In the grand scheme of things, no-one cares and you will find this out soon.

TF I don’t; I am union.

This. The federal unions are why the OMB language was so careful about “meaningful” in person work. Since they can’t force the Feds back in, the private sector isn’t going to come back meaningfully either. I’m a GS 15 with no plans to come back more than 2x week and that will put me on the higher end at my agency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys really have NO power. Companies and agencies are going to order you back to work. You will have no choice but to work in the office for your current employer or if you quit, your future employer. No-one cares if you bring your bologna sandwich from home or not - enough people will buy lunch and coffee and shop at lunchtime for last minute gifts. You guys keep thinking your individual experiences carry so much weight when they don't. In the grand scheme of things, no-one cares and you will find this out soon.

TF I don’t; I am union.

This. The federal unions are why the OMB language was so careful about “meaningful” in person work. Since they can’t force the Feds back in, the private sector isn’t going to come back meaningfully either. I’m a GS 15 with no plans to come back more than 2x week and that will put me on the higher end at my agency.

How do I get my agency to join a union?! We are back 3x weeek… and losing our best employees to the 1x pay period agency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"War path?"

Dramatic much, OP?

Put on pants, get to work.

Nah. Have brought in 5M in two years in pajama pants.

Riiggghhhhttttt. If you’re so successful, you wouldn’t care about this issue.

Not 5M to me personally, 5M to my work unit. And it's the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really blows my mind when people think that their own commute, expenses, and productivity are all that matter when companies set these policies.

To be clear, individuals should absolutely advocate and take action that is in their own best interest. Your job is a huge part of your life. If it isn't working for you, change your job or influence your employer to change their policies. Have at it! And if you organize and are effective at preserving permanent WFH flexibility in your particular organization, that is great!

But to argue that work location policies of employers should only depend on productivity, or your commute cost, or whether you will buy a sandwich at lunch is myopic naive view. It is exacerbated when you characterize the people making decisions as out of touch boomers who don't know what they are doing.

It isn't wholly unlike people saying they shouldn't pay taxes for services they don't use, or that changes to roadways that have a negative impact on their quality of life shouldn't happen. It is a public good to spread revenue around to ensure that cities (where the majority of our population, including the most vulnerable, live) remain viable.

Moreover, it is a financially prudent thing for corporations that get subsidies and incentives from municipalities to do what it takes to keep getting them. The less revenue your employer has, the more likely they are to need to cut staff or reduce comp and benefits.

We have seen the impacts of a reduction in corporate real estate values lead to negative effects on the financial system, and will eventually see it lead to decreased tax revenues that in turn lead to a lack of public welfare services.

THAT is why we are seeing these changes now. It is because all things are interconnected, and decisions are not being made based on whether or not you will buy a latte on the two days per week your employer's policy says you will come in.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting corporations / middle management are making coordinated decisions for the public good, to spread revenue around? LOL, get outta here.

There is not a coordinated effort, there is an assortment of differing incentives and priorities. If there were a coordinated effort for public policy reasons, then things like climate change, accessibility, and birthrate-boosting policy should factor in -- WFH is better for all three. But we're not having that conversation: instead we're continually having a conversation about commercial real estate and why allowing commercial landlords to lose money is Bad instead of the natural and arguably predictable outcome of decisions they made. Tiny violins etc.

I agree with you but feel you buried the lede here. WFH decreases carbon emissions, and our collapsing biosphere is infinitely more of an urgent and existential problem than collapsing commercial real estate.

THIS!!!

Buy your f g Prius that you push on everyone else and get your pajama but off the couch and get to the office. What a bunch of coddled lazy people.

Haha, nope. And there's nothing you can do about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You guys really have NO power. Companies and agencies are going to order you back to work. You will have no choice but to work in the office for your current employer or if you quit, your future employer. No-one cares if you bring your bologna sandwich from home or not - enough people will buy lunch and coffee and shop at lunchtime for last minute gifts. You guys keep thinking your individual experiences carry so much weight when they don't. In the grand scheme of things, no-one cares and you will find this out soon.

Well… I’m actually in a position of power at my employer, so I’m making sure we don’t implement stupid return to office policies when our employees have been diligently doing their jobs for three years from home. I’m not going to make someone commute into the office because I’m not a power tripping a-hole, and our business is thriving. Oh also, I actually do care about my employees morale.

Wish you could coach boomer guy pp to limit his damage.