Companies are on the war path against remote work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

So you think people weren’t pushing back in 2021? It was wayyyy worse then with people threatening to quit and you couldn’t hire anyone from overseas AND the government was supplementing income for some of that time.

For those talking about morale? Whose morale?

Not everyone wants to telework. Many of the screaming WFH people are just bullying and drowning out all the other voices.

And not everyone wants to commute into an office 5 days a week to sit in traffic, “collaborate”, and waste time talking to some old guy named Bill about the weather or some sexist joke his in-law made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really blows my mind when people think that their own commute, expenses, and productivity are all that matter when companies set these policies.

To be clear, individuals should absolutely advocate and take action that is in their own best interest. Your job is a huge part of your life. If it isn't working for you, change your job or influence your employer to change their policies. Have at it! And if you organize and are effective at preserving permanent WFH flexibility in your particular organization, that is great!

But to argue that work location policies of employers should only depend on productivity, or your commute cost, or whether you will buy a sandwich at lunch is myopic naive view. It is exacerbated when you characterize the people making decisions as out of touch boomers who don't know what they are doing.

It isn't wholly unlike people saying they shouldn't pay taxes for services they don't use, or that changes to roadways that have a negative impact on their quality of life shouldn't happen. It is a public good to spread revenue around to ensure that cities (where the majority of our population, including the most vulnerable, live) remain viable.

Moreover, it is a financially prudent thing for corporations that get subsidies and incentives from municipalities to do what it takes to keep getting them. The less revenue your employer has, the more likely they are to need to cut staff or reduce comp and benefits.

We have seen the impacts of a reduction in corporate real estate values lead to negative effects on the financial system, and will eventually see it lead to decreased tax revenues that in turn lead to a lack of public welfare services.

THAT is why we are seeing these changes now. It is because all things are interconnected, and decisions are not being made based on whether or not you will buy a latte on the two days per week your employer's policy says you will come in.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting corporations / middle management are making coordinated decisions for the public good, to spread revenue around? LOL, get outta here.

There is not a coordinated effort, there is an assortment of differing incentives and priorities. If there were a coordinated effort for public policy reasons, then things like climate change, accessibility, and birthrate-boosting policy should factor in -- WFH is better for all three. But we're not having that conversation: instead we're continually having a conversation about commercial real estate and why allowing commercial landlords to lose money is Bad instead of the natural and arguably predictable outcome of decisions they made. Tiny violins etc.

I agree with you but feel you buried the lede here. WFH decreases carbon emissions, and our collapsing biosphere is infinitely more of an urgent and existential problem than collapsing commercial real estate.

THIS!!!

This is one of the ideological banners WFHers like to tout. Like they cared about the environment before the pandemic. Nope. It’s really all about personal lifestyle, working less, and saving more.

Sorry bitter betty that you’re a corporate drone. The younger generations are the future and with your attitude you’ll be the first to go.

Speaking of drones- how many grocery and Amazon deliveries do you get each week whilst you are working so hard at your WFH computer hime office? Good for the environment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t go to an office. But I also don’t understand people that think they can tell a company what to do. If you don’t like your employer or job leave, kind of like if they don’t like you or need you they can fire you.

I mean, we're complaining on the internet, do you think we're printing up these posts and mailing them to CEOs? It kinda seems like anything short of silent obedience is what's being demanded here. I said I was putting out applications for other jobs since the writing is on the wall about our policies changing and I live far from my work, close to my spouse's job. A PP upthread called that "gaslighting" management, as if I'm dumb enough to announce that at work. People on this forum wouldn't blink twice at someone looking for new jobs for more money, but doing it for time and work life balance is apparently "entitled" and "delusional."

[Anonymous]

Crime, camera tickets, smash and grabs, vehicle theft or breakins inside the beltway is OUT OF CONTROL.

No gracias.

The Anacostia gangs are colliding with the Silver Spring Georgia Ave hut & run culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

I’m actually a parent with young children who loves the flexibility of remote work. But I am also a realist. You are all replaceable believe it or not. Acting like you can call the shots is really not reality. Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes is immature and will not make it all go away. You will be fired and demoted. And there are many who are unemployed and desperate to take your place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s most disturbing about this conversation is the number of people who are deeply suspicious about what other people do, to the point where they are paranoid and fantasizing about their behavior.

It’s very similar to the attitude some conservatives have about welfare, being obsessed with the notion that someone else is getting some benefit.

It’s a peculiar/mental illness way of thinking. Remember the adage that you should only look in someone else’s bowl to be sure they have enough. Or, more simply, you worry about you.

Don’t post about how your personal Liberty is more important than the local business owners and how you don’t care if inner cities fall apart and then complain about conservatives.

I haven’t posted anything like what you describe, in fact the post was my first to the thread. But thanks for being an exhibit for broken thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cities threatening to get rid of tax breaks for companies if they don’t RTO, because apparently small businesses are suffering, downtowns are becoming ghost towns, CRE values are plummeting & public transportation is being crime-filled due to normies no longer taking it.

Honestly, I am sick and tired if the FT WFH evangelists acting like these are not valid concerns. They are. Acting as if they are not is making the RTO worse. If you’re unwilling to meet halfway with hybrid, they’ll just make everyone come in all the time. The war path is over. People go back now.

Not true. There are still companies and jobs that ate fully remote. They will be more desirable.

Yup. I'm a fed who goes into the office once a week. The new OMB memo has me throwing in an application for every remote job I'm remotely qualified for, just in case they order us back 3-5 days. I'm also starting to look for non-fed jobs closer to home for the first time in years. I'm not eager to leave, I am invested in the program I manage and had planned to stay in this job a couple more years and the government for the rest of my career, but the 2.5-3 hours of commuting a day is just a deal breaker.

Hope you leave. Agencies have been inundated with applications. Just look at all the DCUM threads wanting advice about the gravy train. In reality, you’re going nowhere because you have it so good. You know that. You’re just gaslighting management to see if they blink. It was your choice to live where you do. You were probably one of those during the pandemic that trolled your neighbors and friends about your new 6000 sq ft home in the suburbs. Well, the joke is now on you.

What a weird outlook you have. A curious and toxic mix of fantastical thinking and nastiness. Have you always been so diseased in the mind? How do you get through the day with such a negative mindset? It must be exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

I’m actually a parent with young children who loves the flexibility of remote work. But I am also a realist. You are all replaceable believe it or not. Acting like you can call the shots is really not reality. Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes is immature and will not make it all go away. You will be fired and demoted. And there are many who are unemployed and desperate to take your place.

All I know is that we’ve had job postings for my group we can’t fill. We’ve been able to fill a few positions and the candidates haven’t been that great at all. I’m a top performer and my manager doesn’t want to lose me. As an individual I feel a lot of power to demand WFH. I know many others in the same position. The longer this goes on, the more normal it seems to WFH. At this point I don’t think many people care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

I’m actually a parent with young children who loves the flexibility of remote work. But I am also a realist. You are all replaceable believe it or not. Acting like you can call the shots is really not reality. Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes is immature and will not make it all go away. You will be fired and demoted. And there are many who are unemployed and desperate to take your place.

Are you posting from 2008?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

I’m actually a parent with young children who loves the flexibility of remote work. But I am also a realist. You are all replaceable believe it or not. Acting like you can call the shots is really not reality. Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes is immature and will not make it all go away. You will be fired and demoted. And there are many who are unemployed and desperate to take your place.

Unemployment is at the lowest rate in decades and the largest generation is retiring, so I do think workers still have some leverage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t go to an office. But I also don’t understand people that think they can tell a company what to do. If you don’t like your employer or job leave, kind of like if they don’t like you or need you they can fire you.

I mean, we're complaining on the internet, do you think we're printing up these posts and mailing them to CEOs? It kinda seems like anything short of silent obedience is what's being demanded here. I said I was putting out applications for other jobs since the writing is on the wall about our policies changing and I live far from my work, close to my spouse's job. A PP upthread called that "gaslighting" management, as if I'm dumb enough to announce that at work. People on this forum wouldn't blink twice at someone looking for new jobs for more money, but doing it for time and work life balance is apparently "entitled" and "delusional."

I haven’t seen any posts that say you shouldn’t look for a new job if that’s what works for you, but also if you seriously care what a bunch of internet strangers (or anybody, really) thinks about you looking for a new job that makes sense for your life, you need to grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cities threatening to get rid of tax breaks for companies if they don’t RTO, because apparently small businesses are suffering, downtowns are becoming ghost towns, CRE values are plummeting & public transportation is being crime-filled due to normies no longer taking it.

Public transit is doomed. After 3 years of hygiene obsession and isolation, cramming onto subway trains is just too traumatic for most people. If they are RTO for 3 days a week, they can drive the super commute for those 3 days and recover before the weekend. Still better than before times and train transit.

People are full on murdering each other on trains. Traffic is going to get really really bad, but more people will invest in AI cruise control and watch movies as their car creeps along following the car in front of it.

Not “most people”. The amount of riders on bus and metro still keeps going up and hasn’t leveled off. My most COVID careful friend started taking metro again, but still masks. Most people have also started flying again.

Nobody is wearing masks.

[Anonymous]

I don’t see this mentioned but maybe l missed it. Some people, including myself, like hybrid as long as in office days are coordinated. (Not zoom in your office). I would refuse a fully remote position in my field, or one where my team doesn’t have coordinated in person days. In my case it’s bad for my work, and also my mental health. My work is important to me and l don’t feel great when I / my team are doing a crap job.

It can’t be that uncommon for people to work better with their colleagues in person - in my case the work gets done better and faster. And it can’t be that uncommon for people to prefer working with humans for mental health reasons.

It’s a complex issue. It’s not just about commercial real estate or any other one thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These companies didn’t push back at ALL during those useless lockdowns and stay at home orders. People were allowed to WFH and found out they liked it. And now they don’t want to go back.

They should’ve pushed back against the Covid BS but they didn’t.

No one wants to go back to the office including myself.

You reap what you sow.

Exactly. They created this mess. Forcing people to work remotely in March 2020-July 2020 made sense. But they pushed it well into 2021/2022 unnecessarily even after it was known that Covid was only life threatening for people who had pre-existing conditions/ older frail people. There was no real reason the majority of the healthy workforce had to work remotely for nearly 3 years. What did they expect would happen?

I’m actually a parent with young children who loves the flexibility of remote work. But I am also a realist. You are all replaceable believe it or not. Acting like you can call the shots is really not reality. Sticking your fingers in your ears and closing your eyes is immature and will not make it all go away. You will be fired and demoted. And there are many who are unemployed and desperate to take your place.

Unemployment is very low so good luck scraping the barrel for replacements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cities threatening to get rid of tax breaks for companies if they don’t RTO, because apparently small businesses are suffering, downtowns are becoming ghost towns, CRE values are plummeting & public transportation is being crime-filled due to normies no longer taking it.

Public transit is doomed. After 3 years of hygiene obsession and isolation, cramming onto subway trains is just too traumatic for most people. If they are RTO for 3 days a week, they can drive the super commute for those 3 days and recover before the weekend. Still better than before times and train transit.

People are full on murdering each other on trains. Traffic is going to get really really bad, but more people will invest in AI cruise control and watch movies as their car creeps along following the car in front of it.

Not “most people”. The amount of riders on bus and metro still keeps going up and hasn’t leveled off. My most COVID careful friend started taking metro again, but still masks. Most people have also started flying again.

Nobody is wearing masks.

PP just told you about a person wearing a mask, and you respond by saying nobody is wearing a mask?