is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

+1 different school. But, the PP's belief that it is is precisely what these kids are up against. They don't fully get that a B in AP Physics C is calculated as a 2.7 (whereas on the public school scale that 2.7 looks like a C-), and missing an A by .2 gets you a 3.3 for that class (whereas in other schools, that likely would have been made an A one way or the other, probably rounded up, but also a 3.3 is a C+ in a AP level course, not a just barely missed an A by the skin of your teeth in a very hard AP class). This is what posters mean by grade inflation/deflation. The exact same performance (not even considering the different standards) get vastly different grades. Not a problem when ADs take actually look at the classes and grading scale and recalculate -- but not all schools do that given the volume of applications they get these days and many use an AI cut.

This is where you are applying heavily to the schools that your counselor says "know your school." But not all schools do, no matter where you go. So you need to follow the counselor's lead and hope you land at a good fit. Also remember that the schools ranked even in the low 100s are excellent and produce leaders. Strong kids can get an excellent education and succeed anywhere.

This is very confusing and I think I'd rather not know this much. I do know that in my kid's AP calculus BC class there were NO As (of any variety) given in the first quarter and quite a few Cs. 🤪 (announced by the teacher) The tests have gotten harder and grades have gone down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

Not really. In districts like MCPS and the NOVA districts where honors and AP are weighted up to a 5, a 3.3 can be a GPA that is well above 4.0.

To the PP, whose son was deferred, what state are you in?

Maryland

PP, do you mind identifying the schools? Was one of them UMBC? My DD's public school friends are getting deferred from UMBC EA, which is something I never heard about in years past (I have an older kid too).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

Not really. In districts like MCPS and the NOVA districts where honors and AP are weighted up to a 5, a 3.3 can be a GPA that is well above 4.0.

To the PP, whose son was deferred, what state are you in?

Maryland

PP, do you mind identifying the schools? Was one of them UMBC? My DD's public school friends are getting deferred from UMBC EA, which is something I never heard about in years past (I have an older kid too).

Deferrred from UMBC? What schools are they at?

[Anonymous]

I’m a public school HS teacher and I resent how everyone on this thread acts like public school teachers give out As like candy.
Many of us don’t do that. I teach Honors and AP level classes and presently I have only 2 kids in my AP class who have an A. My honors classes have about 3 As per 30 students (in each section). Many students have Cs. I don’t doubt that NCS is much harder and stricter with grading. But the top kids at public also have to work very hard. Middling students less so (compared with private school students).
One of my own kids is at private school (less rigorous than NCS).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a public school HS teacher and I resent how everyone on this thread acts like public school teachers give out As like candy.
Many of us don’t do that. I teach Honors and AP level classes and presently I have only 2 kids in my AP class who have an A. My honors classes have about 3 As per 30 students (in each section). Many students have Cs. I don’t doubt that NCS is much harder and stricter with grading. But the top kids at public also have to work very hard. Middling students less so (compared with private school students).
One of my own kids is at private school (less rigorous than NCS).

It's great that you grade appropriately but many districts inflate. There are routinely 100+ valedictorians at my other child's high school (all kids with perfect grades for 4 years).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a public school HS teacher and I resent how everyone on this thread acts like public school teachers give out As like candy.
Many of us don’t do that. I teach Honors and AP level classes and presently I have only 2 kids in my AP class who have an A. My honors classes have about 3 As per 30 students (in each section). Many students have Cs. I don’t doubt that NCS is much harder and stricter with grading. But the top kids at public also have to work very hard. Middling students less so (compared with private school students).
One of my own kids is at private school (less rigorous than NCS).

Maybe you don’t, but in our local public HS (which is an excellent HS), half the seniors have GPAs higher than 4.0 and they don’t even calculate a valedictorian because so many kids would qualify. That’s a significant change since pre-Covid. It’s actually really hard on those kids, because they become indistinguishable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

+1 different school. But, the PP's belief that it is is precisely what these kids are up against. They don't fully get that a B in AP Physics C is calculated as a 2.7 (whereas on the public school scale that 2.7 looks like a C-), and missing an A by .2 gets you a 3.3 for that class (whereas in other schools, that likely would have been made an A one way or the other, probably rounded up, but also a 3.3 is a C+ in a AP level course, not a just barely missed an A by the skin of your teeth in a very hard AP class). This is what posters mean by grade inflation/deflation. The exact same performance (not even considering the different standards) get vastly different grades. Not a problem when ADs take actually look at the classes and grading scale and recalculate -- but not all schools do that given the volume of applications they get these days and many use an AI cut.

This is where you are applying heavily to the schools that your counselor says "know your school." But not all schools do, no matter where you go. So you need to follow the counselor's lead and hope you land at a good fit. Also remember that the schools ranked even in the low 100s are excellent and produce leaders. Strong kids can get an excellent education and succeed anywhere.

This is very confusing and I think I'd rather not know this much. I do know that in my kid's AP calculus BC class there were NO As (of any variety) given in the first quarter and quite a few Cs. 🤪 (announced by the teacher) The tests have gotten harder and grades have gone down.

It is ridiculous that in a Calculus BC class there are no A’s. Only students who are good at math are taking BC. Everyone else is taking Calculus AB or stats or just going up to pre-calculus. What this teacher hs doing us ruining the chances of students in this class not getting accepted into STEM majors because it is assumed that stem majors should be getting an A calculus BC . It’s the reason why calculus BC has one if the highest rates of students getting a 5 on the AP test- over 40% of test takers get a 5.

[Anonymous]

The only rule about grade inflation is that it’s happening at every school but your own kid’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

+1 different school. But, the PP's belief that it is is precisely what these kids are up against. They don't fully get that a B in AP Physics C is calculated as a 2.7 (whereas on the public school scale that 2.7 looks like a C-), and missing an A by .2 gets you a 3.3 for that class (whereas in other schools, that likely would have been made an A one way or the other, probably rounded up, but also a 3.3 is a C+ in a AP level course, not a just barely missed an A by the skin of your teeth in a very hard AP class). This is what posters mean by grade inflation/deflation. The exact same performance (not even considering the different standards) get vastly different grades. Not a problem when ADs take actually look at the classes and grading scale and recalculate -- but not all schools do that given the volume of applications they get these days and many use an AI cut.

This is where you are applying heavily to the schools that your counselor says "know your school." But not all schools do, no matter where you go. So you need to follow the counselor's lead and hope you land at a good fit. Also remember that the schools ranked even in the low 100s are excellent and produce leaders. Strong kids can get an excellent education and succeed anywhere.

This is very confusing and I think I'd rather not know this much. I do know that in my kid's AP calculus BC class there were NO As (of any variety) given in the first quarter and quite a few Cs. 🤪 (announced by the teacher) The tests have gotten harder and grades have gone down.

It is ridiculous that in a Calculus BC class there are no A’s. Only students who are good at math are taking BC. Everyone else is taking Calculus AB or stats or just going up to pre-calculus. What this teacher hs doing us ruining the chances of students in this class not getting accepted into STEM majors because it is assumed that stem majors should be getting an A calculus BC . It’s the reason why calculus BC has one if the highest rates of students getting a 5 on the AP test- over 40% of test takers get a 5.

Yes, it's frustrating. My kid just got a perfect math PSAT but there has not been a student who has scored above an 89 on an exam in this class. And of course there are no retakes. And my kid came from a highly public and had received course grades in the high 90s there (final grads of 98%, etc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a Big3 school with significant grade deflation. It appears that the kids are not doing well at all with college admits this year. Maybe 5 kids total got EDs so far?
I know multiple kids who were deferred or rejected at University A or B when their peers at less competitive privates and publics were admitted to University A or B.
These are really smart and hard working kids but the school is such that only 1/12 kids in some classes are granted an A.
Is the grade deflation catching up? I just wonder what admissions really thinks when all the applicants from our school have GPAs under 3.8, many quite a bit under.

Am I just worrying too soon in the admissions season or have you noticed this too?
I have an underclassman.

Op the answer is yes it is hurting them. The other answer is it won't change because guess what? Legacy admits, families with school vip status, and athletic recruits will get in no matter what so for them a 90 or 94 won't GPA won't make a difference. If we start seeing them rejected then maybe things will change. That is why SATs were always the gold standard because the number was not debatable based on what classes you took or whether you lucked out with teachers. I think they should go back to SATS and ACTS having more weight.

[Anonymous]

All I can say is, if I had known that large star publics (Tennessee, Wisconsin, Indiana) would be off the table without a 4.0 and 1400+, I would never have put them through the torture of their private school. Worst mistake we ever made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

+1 different school. But, the PP's belief that it is is precisely what these kids are up against. They don't fully get that a B in AP Physics C is calculated as a 2.7 (whereas on the public school scale that 2.7 looks like a C-), and missing an A by .2 gets you a 3.3 for that class (whereas in other schools, that likely would have been made an A one way or the other, probably rounded up, but also a 3.3 is a C+ in a AP level course, not a just barely missed an A by the skin of your teeth in a very hard AP class). This is what posters mean by grade inflation/deflation. The exact same performance (not even considering the different standards) get vastly different grades. Not a problem when ADs take actually look at the classes and grading scale and recalculate -- but not all schools do that given the volume of applications they get these days and many use an AI cut.

This is where you are applying heavily to the schools that your counselor says "know your school." But not all schools do, no matter where you go. So you need to follow the counselor's lead and hope you land at a good fit. Also remember that the schools ranked even in the low 100s are excellent and produce leaders. Strong kids can get an excellent education and succeed anywhere.

This is very confusing and I think I'd rather not know this much. I do know that in my kid's AP calculus BC class there were NO As (of any variety) given in the first quarter and quite a few Cs. 🤪 (announced by the teacher) The tests have gotten harder and grades have gone down.

It is ridiculous that in a Calculus BC class there are no A’s. Only students who are good at math are taking BC. Everyone else is taking Calculus AB or stats or just going up to pre-calculus. What this teacher hs doing us ruining the chances of students in this class not getting accepted into STEM majors because it is assumed that stem majors should be getting an A calculus BC . It’s the reason why calculus BC has one if the highest rates of students getting a 5 on the AP test- over 40% of test takers get a 5.

Yes, it's frustrating. My kid just got a perfect math PSAT but there has not been a student who has scored above an 89 on an exam in this class. And of course there are no retakes. And my kid came from a highly public and had received course grades in the high 90s there (final grads of 98%, etc)

Have you asked the admin about it? Really by calculus BC 50- 75% of students should be getting A’s on tests if the class is being taught well. I would ask the school for more information because it is a very poor reflection on the math program at that school if no one is getting an A. Of course it is most likely that teacher but the school probably won’t admit that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

+1 different school. But, the PP's belief that it is is precisely what these kids are up against. They don't fully get that a B in AP Physics C is calculated as a 2.7 (whereas on the public school scale that 2.7 looks like a C-), and missing an A by .2 gets you a 3.3 for that class (whereas in other schools, that likely would have been made an A one way or the other, probably rounded up, but also a 3.3 is a C+ in a AP level course, not a just barely missed an A by the skin of your teeth in a very hard AP class). This is what posters mean by grade inflation/deflation. The exact same performance (not even considering the different standards) get vastly different grades. Not a problem when ADs take actually look at the classes and grading scale and recalculate -- but not all schools do that given the volume of applications they get these days and many use an AI cut.

This is where you are applying heavily to the schools that your counselor says "know your school." But not all schools do, no matter where you go. So you need to follow the counselor's lead and hope you land at a good fit. Also remember that the schools ranked even in the low 100s are excellent and produce leaders. Strong kids can get an excellent education and succeed anywhere.

This is very confusing and I think I'd rather not know this much. I do know that in my kid's AP calculus BC class there were NO As (of any variety) given in the first quarter and quite a few Cs. 🤪 (announced by the teacher) The tests have gotten harder and grades have gone down.

It is ridiculous that in a Calculus BC class there are no A’s. Only students who are good at math are taking BC. Everyone else is taking Calculus AB or stats or just going up to pre-calculus. What this teacher hs doing us ruining the chances of students in this class not getting accepted into STEM majors because it is assumed that stem majors should be getting an A calculus BC . It’s the reason why calculus BC has one if the highest rates of students getting a 5 on the AP test- over 40% of test takers get a 5.

Yes, it's frustrating. My kid just got a perfect math PSAT but there has not been a student who has scored above an 89 on an exam in this class. And of course there are no retakes. And my kid came from a highly public and had received course grades in the high 90s there (final grads of 98%, etc)

Have you asked the admin about it? Really by calculus BC 50- 75% of students should be getting A’s on tests if the class is being taught well. I would ask the school for more information because it is a very poor reflection on the math program at that school if no one is getting an A. Of course it is most likely that teacher but the school probably won’t admit that.

Some private schools have very difficult upper level math. These kids will score 5s on the AP but barely eke out an A or B+ in the class. The teachers just wrote unreasonable exams. It’s a very dumb way to test knowledge but it is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

+1 different school. But, the PP's belief that it is is precisely what these kids are up against. They don't fully get that a B in AP Physics C is calculated as a 2.7 (whereas on the public school scale that 2.7 looks like a C-), and missing an A by .2 gets you a 3.3 for that class (whereas in other schools, that likely would have been made an A one way or the other, probably rounded up, but also a 3.3 is a C+ in a AP level course, not a just barely missed an A by the skin of your teeth in a very hard AP class). This is what posters mean by grade inflation/deflation. The exact same performance (not even considering the different standards) get vastly different grades. Not a problem when ADs take actually look at the classes and grading scale and recalculate -- but not all schools do that given the volume of applications they get these days and many use an AI cut.

This is where you are applying heavily to the schools that your counselor says "know your school." But not all schools do, no matter where you go. So you need to follow the counselor's lead and hope you land at a good fit. Also remember that the schools ranked even in the low 100s are excellent and produce leaders. Strong kids can get an excellent education and succeed anywhere.

This is very confusing and I think I'd rather not know this much. I do know that in my kid's AP calculus BC class there were NO As (of any variety) given in the first quarter and quite a few Cs. 🤪 (announced by the teacher) The tests have gotten harder and grades have gone down.

It is ridiculous that in a Calculus BC class there are no A’s. Only students who are good at math are taking BC. Everyone else is taking Calculus AB or stats or just going up to pre-calculus. What this teacher hs doing us ruining the chances of students in this class not getting accepted into STEM majors because it is assumed that stem majors should be getting an A calculus BC . It’s the reason why calculus BC has one if the highest rates of students getting a 5 on the AP test- over 40% of test takers get a 5.

Yes, it's frustrating. My kid just got a perfect math PSAT but there has not been a student who has scored above an 89 on an exam in this class. And of course there are no retakes. And my kid came from a highly public and had received course grades in the high 90s there (final grads of 98%, etc)

Have you asked the admin about it? Really by calculus BC 50- 75% of students should be getting A’s on tests if the class is being taught well. I would ask the school for more information because it is a very poor reflection on the math program at that school if no one is getting an A. Of course it is most likely that teacher but the school probably won’t admit that.

Some private schools have very difficult upper level math. These kids will score 5s on the AP but barely eke out an A or B+ in the class. The teachers just wrote unreasonable exams. It’s a very dumb way to test knowledge but it is what it is.

So none of you have discussed this with US admin? This has been the situation for years. What exactly do you think will change if you aren’t willing to address it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only rule about grade inflation is that it’s happening at every school but your own kid’s.

What on earth else do you call it when over 50% of a graduating class has above a 4.0 and there are literally hundreds of valedictorians? I’m asking seriously. Do you think that is NOT grade inflation somehow? What else could it be?