is grade deflation really hurting college admissions this year?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

Not really. In districts like MCPS and the NOVA districts where honors and AP are weighted up to a 5, a 3.3 can be a GPA that is well above 4.0.

To the PP, whose son was deferred, what state are you in?

Maryland

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Agree with pp. Private makes the most sense for k-8 b/c it provides a good foundation, but public HS—particularly the magnet schools/programs—have a lot to offer.

LOL, DCUM has attacked me on several occasions for posting this very thing. Glad you agree.

No way would I send my kid to public in this area. There is not a single school I would feel safe sending them to. There have been all sorts of issues at these publics. Please stop saying there are not because we have many friends trying to apply out currently. It is a different set of problems.

A few good AP classes does mean it is the community I want for my kids. The classes are too big. Disruptive kids are allowed to remain in classes. Kids have been threatened by violence. Drug overdose at school during the day a few years ago at Jackson Reed. The ambulance had to come. Friends at Deal and Hardy said a kid pulled out a knife at school and other kid got jumped in the bathroom. Kids going to Safeway and stealing items during lunch. The list goes on and on. These are not made up stories. These are from friends who have kids in publics and they are desperately applying to try to get them into a private. We are helping two right now.

And yet there are kids at these schools doing extraordinarily well. A great student coming out of this environment is a far more interesting college admit.

Agree. Jackson Reed seems to be doing great as usual with EDs.

1 at Harvard
1 at Cornell
1 and Columbia (football)
2 at Tulane
2 at Smith (girls crew)


https://instagram.com/jacksonreed2023?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Yes. We know.
This is not a post about how public is better than private or the reverse.
That is such a played-out conversation.

But that is a class of 500 kids…with tons of parents who are alumni of those schools.

[Anonymous]

The percentage of kids from the Big 3 and privates going to the top tier school will always be hugely exponentially higher than those at the public schools. Just by size, 5 students from a class of xx at whichever private vs. 5 out of 500 from Jackson Reed or the MoCo or Fairfax publics. Walls is smaller but it's also (whether you want to admit it or not) a population of kids very similar to those at most DMV top privates - and they are well known for their grade deflation (ie. few kids ever get straight As vs. like 20% do a schools like the W's in MoCo, which ended up burning their admissions for years since the kids were nearly indistinguishable) The admissions officers know the DMV schools very well and know how to calibrate.
They also know the schools in the major hubs where students come from all around the country (like Phila and Boston and NYC, etc...) The bigger admissions factor changes as I understand it from my Ivy alma matter seems to be they dropped the SAT and also are hyper focused on greater inclusion and diversity of kids that have different types of experiences and backgrounds, so there's more different 'competition' than the best privates from DC vs. the other best privates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with pp. Private makes the most sense for k-8 b/c it provides a good foundation, but public HS—particularly the magnet schools/programs—have a lot to offer.

LOL, DCUM has attacked me on several occasions for posting this very thing. Glad you agree.

No way would I send my kid to public in this area. There is not a single school I would feel safe sending them to. There have been all sorts of issues at these publics. Please stop saying there are not because we have many friends trying to apply out currently. It is a different set of problems.

A few good AP classes does mean it is the community I want for my kids. The classes are too big. Disruptive kids are allowed to remain in classes. Kids have been threatened by violence. Drug overdose at school during the day a few years ago at Jackson Reed. The ambulance had to come. Friends at Deal and Hardy said a kid pulled out a knife at school and other kid got jumped in the bathroom. Kids going to Safeway and stealing items during lunch. The list goes on and on. These are not made up stories. These are from friends who have kids in publics and they are desperately applying to try to get them into a private. We are helping two right now.

And yet there are kids at these schools doing extraordinarily well. A great student coming out of this environment is a far more interesting college admit.

This made me LOL. you'd be so surprised at which kids are some of the biggest 'troublemakers' you are referring to at these schools... many look a lot like Big 3 kids with parents with full educational and professional 'pedigrees'...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with pp. Private makes the most sense for k-8 b/c it provides a good foundation, but public HS—particularly the magnet schools/programs—have a lot to offer.

LOL, DCUM has attacked me on several occasions for posting this very thing. Glad you agree.

No way would I send my kid to public in this area. There is not a single school I would feel safe sending them to. There have been all sorts of issues at these publics. Please stop saying there are not because we have many friends trying to apply out currently. It is a different set of problems.

A few good AP classes does mean it is the community I want for my kids. The classes are too big. Disruptive kids are allowed to remain in classes. Kids have been threatened by violence. Drug overdose at school during the day a few years ago at Jackson Reed. The ambulance had to come. Friends at Deal and Hardy said a kid pulled out a knife at school and other kid got jumped in the bathroom. Kids going to Safeway and stealing items during lunch. The list goes on and on. These are not made up stories. These are from friends who have kids in publics and they are desperately applying to try to get them into a private. We are helping two right now.

And yet there are kids at these schools doing extraordinarily well. A great student coming out of this environment is a far more interesting college admit.

Agree. Jackson Reed seems to be doing great as usual with EDs.

1 at Harvard
1 at Cornell
1 and Columbia (football)
2 at Tulane
2 at Smith (girls crew)


https://instagram.com/jacksonreed2023?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Yes. We know.
This is not a post about how public is better than private or the reverse.
That is such a played-out conversation.

But that is a class of 500 kids…with tons of parents who are alumni of those schools.

20% of the JR class of 2022 did not go on to college. Most of the rest can’t afford to ED. Yes, there’s a group of kids wealthy enough to have attended a Big 3. And among those kids, many are Ivy legacies. But it’s hardly the entire student body. Using 500 as a denominator here makes you look extremely out of touch.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t think people outside of NCS understand the standard that they hold the girls to.
Obviously there are very smart kids in public before anyone gets triggered, but NCS is a self selecting academic school. You certainly don’t go there for the sports (ex crew), so it draws an academically inclined student.
The grading is merciless and in the past this has not necessarily been a problem but 2 very significant changes have happened 1) Covid grade inflation at public school and 2) test optional. These are seismic shifts.
It is yet to be seen how much it matters because the RD round will sort that out. In ED NCS has very few athletic recruits (again ex crew) compared to Holton Arms for example who does well in a wider range of sports.
It’s too early to tell, but it is quite likely that the grade deflation has now become an issue.
I don’t think parents are expecting a “leg-up” I just think parents don’t want their daughters disadvantaged either. Let’s face it, a 3.4 or 3.5 does not compare very favorably these days.

There it is. It did take 12 pages this year, but there it is. An NCS parent actually saying out loud that their daughter is disadvantaged. Wow.

No, it says they don't want their kid disadvantaged. The post is all a big question - which is reasonable. NCS grading is merciless. Lots of girls have very high SAT or ACT scores, work really hard and are getting hammered by GPA.

In this city, it is not reasonable to say a girl attending NCS is in any way truly disadvantaged. Try to keep some perspective. They will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the private school kids will be better prepared for the rigor of college overall. They can relax their first year and enjoy the ride.

Don’t be so sure of that. My friend whose DC is a freshman at a top SLAC was just bemoaning how shocked her child was at the level of academic intensity and how hard the work was. I think it’s very dangerous for private school kids to make assumptions about how much better prepared they are.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

Are these current seniors? My daughter is in 10th and she doesn't discuss grades with her friends, but I've been wondering what the norm is.

Yes, for current seniors. ACT 32-34 and SAT 1480-1500. These are objectively smart girls. They are not upset about not getting into top 20 colleges. They are upset about getting deferred and rejected from colleges in the 50-150 range.

Not to quibble but a 32 ACT, (which is a 1420/1440 SAT) is going to be below the interquartile range at almost any top 20 school bc of test optional. It is also likely we’ll below the private school average, which I bet is a 34. You basically need a 34 but probably a 35 (or above 1500 SAT) these days at top 20 schools or else for TO. Maybe that is the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

Are these current seniors? My daughter is in 10th and she doesn't discuss grades with her friends, but I've been wondering what the norm is.

Yes, for current seniors. ACT 32-34 and SAT 1480-1500. These are objectively smart girls. They are not upset about not getting into top 20 colleges. They are upset about getting deferred and rejected from colleges in the 50-150 range.

Not to quibble but a 32 ACT, (which is a 1420/1440 SAT) is going to be below the interquartile range at almost any top 20 school bc of test optional. It is also likely we’ll below the private school average, which I bet is a 34. You basically need a 34 but probably a 35 (or above 1500 SAT) these days at top 20 schools or else for TO. Maybe that is the issue.

And I should add, schools like Georgia etc are tough too. The honors college (which can serve as a proxy for OOS students) has a 34/35 ACT average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

Are these current seniors? My daughter is in 10th and she doesn't discuss grades with her friends, but I've been wondering what the norm is.

Yes, for current seniors. ACT 32-34 and SAT 1480-1500. These are objectively smart girls. They are not upset about not getting into top 20 colleges. They are upset about getting deferred and rejected from colleges in the 50-150 range.

Not to quibble but a 32 ACT, (which is a 1420/1440 SAT) is going to be below the interquartile range at almost any top 20 school bc of test optional. It is also likely we’ll below the private school average, which I bet is a 34. You basically need a 34 but probably a 35 (or above 1500 SAT) these days at top 20 schools or else for TO. Maybe that is the issue.

Different poster here but we're not talking about top 20 schools. Did you even read the post you're applying to? The kids are getting rejected from schools in the 50-150 range.

[Anonymous]

Maybe grade deflation is not the culprit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Publics all have students who will not go to college or whose families can’t afford private universities.

Schools like HYPS are essentially free for families making $75,000 or less and tuition-free for families making $150,000 or less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

Are these current seniors? My daughter is in 10th and she doesn't discuss grades with her friends, but I've been wondering what the norm is.

Yes, for current seniors. ACT 32-34 and SAT 1480-1500. These are objectively smart girls. They are not upset about not getting into top 20 colleges. They are upset about getting deferred and rejected from colleges in the 50-150 range.

Not to quibble but a 32 ACT, (which is a 1420/1440 SAT) is going to be below the interquartile range at almost any top 20 school bc of test optional. It is also likely we’ll below the private school average, which I bet is a 34. You basically need a 34 but probably a 35 (or above 1500 SAT) these days at top 20 schools or else for TO. Maybe that is the issue.

Different poster here but we're not talking about top 20 schools. Did you even read the post you're applying to? The kids are getting rejected from schools in the 50-150 range.

+2 They are not applying to top 20 schools. Do people even read these posts? We are talking about schools from 50-150 in USNWR. Generally speaking, these test scores are far above their average.

[Anonymous]

[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

Are these current seniors? My daughter is in 10th and she doesn't discuss grades with her friends, but I've been wondering what the norm is.

Yes, for current seniors. ACT 32-34 and SAT 1480-1500. These are objectively smart girls. They are not upset about not getting into top 20 colleges. They are upset about getting deferred and rejected from colleges in the 50-150 range.

Not to quibble but a 32 ACT, (which is a 1420/1440 SAT) is going to be below the interquartile range at almost any top 20 school bc of test optional. It is also likely we’ll below the private school average, which I bet is a 34. You basically need a 34 but probably a 35 (or above 1500 SAT) these days at top 20 schools or else for TO. Maybe that is the issue.

Not top 20 schools. Schools like South Carolina, Tennessee or Vermont.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t read all of the responses but I found it interesting that the two schools my don was deferred at for EA were in-state schools. Neither one is known for a low admissions rate either. I guess his 3.3 just can’t measure up against the high and super high GPAs. Those schools were his safety schools so it’s not a big deal but just surprising.

3.3 is low, for public and private.

It is absolutely not low at NCS. Most of my daughters friends are right around 3.0-3.4

+1 different school. But, the PP's belief that it is is precisely what these kids are up against. They don't fully get that a B in AP Physics C is calculated as a 2.7 (whereas on the public school scale that 2.7 looks like a C-), and missing an A by .2 gets you a 3.3 for that class (whereas in other schools, that likely would have been made an A one way or the other, probably rounded up, but also a 3.3 is a C+ in a AP level course, not a just barely missed an A by the skin of your teeth in a very hard AP class). This is what posters mean by grade inflation/deflation. The exact same performance (not even considering the different standards) get vastly different grades. Not a problem when ADs take actually look at the classes and grading scale and recalculate -- but not all schools do that given the volume of applications they get these days and many use an AI cut.

This is where you are applying heavily to the schools that your counselor says "know your school." But not all schools do, no matter where you go. So you need to follow the counselor's lead and hope you land at a good fit. Also remember that the schools ranked even in the low 100s are excellent and produce leaders. Strong kids can get an excellent education and succeed anywhere.