The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My frustration so far is that the women are so one dimensional. Whereas the men have complex psychology.

You can definitely tell a bunch of middle aged men wrote it, IMO. I was totally unsurprised when the credits ran and it was male name after male name. From the little speech about women never going for nice guys, to the old loser divorcee middle aged Hollywood dad getting attention and a threesome with gorgeous young Italian women... kind of a joke how these male writers just put their own issues/fantasies out there

We will see how the show plays out but I’m wondering if the “nice guys” comment was intentionally included. It’s such a loaded phrase I am wondering if it was intentionally added to communicate something about the character. And in terms of the middle aged guy hooking up with a hot young woman- she’s a prostitute. It doesn’t surprise me that a goofy middle aged man can get attention from a hot young woman when he pays for it

I would have assumed that given how loaded the term is, but that wasn't the angle I was getting from it. Also contrast that to him saying that comment about "young girls shouldnt have to hook up with older men" (a true and fair statement IMO) and then contrasted with his gross looking father hooking up with these beautiful young women, I just feel like theyre gearing up for some kind of misogyny and it's very very obvious who wrote the little fantasy sequence of the middle aged dude having a threesome. But then again, it's HBO, this kind of thing has always been their bread and butter, so i shouldnt be surprised. We really need more women writers in the writing room.

[Anonymous]

This is Mike White’s show, so I am not mad that it is male gaze. It’s the creation of one person. I suppose now that it’s a hit, it could have a new iteration as something else. But as long as it’s his show, it’s his show. He’s not a woman. Elevate shows created by women. You don’t have to try to shoehorn this one.

My biggest problem with this season so far is the prostitutes vs hotel storyline made no sense. It was distractingly implausible. She already had an appointment. There was no need to wear a slutty dress. She could have just put a coat on and walked in. It made no sense.

The two young couples are growing on me. The three men are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the Aubrey four-ple going to do some wife swapping or something? The rooms connect and the "happy" couple seemed open to the idea of connecting them. Then the whole getting naked in front of Aubrey and the "I want you to like me, it's important" speech.

The other thing I thought would come back was the "happy" couple's wife saying she could cut off her husband's balls if she wanted to. If they don't all swap together and just the husband does it, maybe she will kill her husband? Or kill Aubrey's husband if the swap and she is mad that he still loves his wife Aubrey? Her character seems ineffectual but I think there is a hint of something underneath there that could cause problems. (Though she finds the bodies and is horrified so maybe not.)

It felt to me like Daphne purposefully reached out and talked to the two women at the start of episode 1. They did not engage with her first. Like she wanted to create and alibi or story where all was well on the morning of xyz date. She does a quick side glance as she goes into the water that doesn’t look as carefree as the rest of those seconds as she jumps into the water.

The women she is talking to were on Survivor. I don't think we were meant to take anything from that interaction.

Oh I didn't realize they were from Survivor -- guessing from Mike White's season or people he met through Survivor contacts? That's kind of fun -- I love that he's so obsessed with Survivor that he went and got cast on the show, I thought that was hilarious.

Anyway, the fact that it was a bit of a stunt casting doesn't mean that scene doesn't have importance in the show. In Season One, the very first scene is also a flash forward, to the Jake Lacey character at the airport waiting to leave Hawaii, and mention of the plane waiting on a dead body that we're supposed to think is his wife because he seems so upset and he is playing with his wedding ring. Of course the truth was that the dead body was the hotel concierge, who Jake's character killed, and he's worrying over his wedding ring because he's unsure if his wife, who has just discovered (somehow) that he's an entitled a$$hole who can literally get away with murder, will come back to him and they'll stay married. But at the end of the flash forward teaser, they cut to the main cast on the boat just arriving at the resort.

This season started the exact same way, so it makes sense that what appears to be happening in that first scene with Daphne is not actually what is going on, and that we'll get some big revelations over the course of the season that will reveal how we got it wrong. The presence of some Survivor alums in the scene might just serve as further distraction from what is actually going on. I like PP's theory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is Mike White’s show, so I am not mad that it is male gaze. It’s the creation of one person. I suppose now that it’s a hit, it could have a new iteration as something else. But as long as it’s his show, it’s his show. He’s not a woman. Elevate shows created by women. You don’t have to try to shoehorn this one.

My biggest problem with this season so far is the prostitutes vs hotel storyline made no sense. It was distractingly implausible. She already had an appointment. There was no need to wear a slutty dress. She could have just put a coat on and walked in. It made no sense.

The two young couples are growing on me. The three men are not.

It can be written by a man and he can choose not to allow a ton of female input. And we can choose to comment on it, and, as you can see, people already are, as is inevitable with these extreme male gaze shows. It's tedious and annoying and people, especially younger people, are getting fed up with it.

So yeah- you can be complacent about it, others can voice their dissatisfaction. Everyone is allowed to have an open discourse on it and I do think this will be brought up. Because it's the rule rather than the exception, and it's very myopic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is Mike White’s show, so I am not mad that it is male gaze. It’s the creation of one person. I suppose now that it’s a hit, it could have a new iteration as something else. But as long as it’s his show, it’s his show. He’s not a woman. Elevate shows created by women. You don’t have to try to shoehorn this one.

My biggest problem with this season so far is the prostitutes vs hotel storyline made no sense. It was distractingly implausible. She already had an appointment. There was no need to wear a slutty dress. She could have just put a coat on and walked in. It made no sense.

The two young couples are growing on me. The three men are not.

It can be written by a man and he can choose not to allow a ton of female input. And we can choose to comment on it, and, as you can see, people already are, as is inevitable with these extreme male gaze shows. It's tedious and annoying and people, especially younger people, are getting fed up with it.

So yeah- you can be complacent about it, others can voice their dissatisfaction. Everyone is allowed to have an open discourse on it and I do think this will be brought up. Because it's the rule rather than the exception, and it's very myopic.

Woman here who’s thoroughly enjoying the “male gaze” perspective of this show. I also enjoyed watching Hacks. I can enjoy different gazes in different shows.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know that I would characterize this a show that is crass or distracting in a male gazey way. There are beautiful men, beautiful women, and there is beautiful scenery. I do think the characters (including the women) are multidimensional and I don’t find their beauty to be showcased in a way that is intended just for men to be ogling them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that I would characterize this a show that is crass or distracting in a male gazey way. There are beautiful men, beautiful women, and there is beautiful scenery. I do think the characters (including the women) are multidimensional and I don’t find their beauty to be showcased in a way that is intended just for men to be ogling them.

I personally think how it's shaping up is fairly one dimensional towards the women, while portraying the boring male storyline of getting dumped with your wife and hitting up prostitutes as some kind of fascinating, deep, intellectual struggle. To me the writing is on the wall with how it's going to turn out (and HBO is notorious for that) but I'm interested in the chemistry between Theo James and Aubrey Plaza, and I will say that they did include some very nice looking men for women to enjoy too (Aubrey Plaza's husband is super hot, and obviously Theo) so I'm not gonna cut it off just yet.

I will just say I'm soooo tired of having a series come out youre so excited for and then all the writing has clearly been done by a room full of men or pickme women who will go along with whatever. It's just boring.

But I'm crossing my fingers and will be watching and paying attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is Mike White’s show, so I am not mad that it is male gaze. It’s the creation of one person. I suppose now that it’s a hit, it could have a new iteration as something else. But as long as it’s his show, it’s his show. He’s not a woman. Elevate shows created by women. You don’t have to try to shoehorn this one.

My biggest problem with this season so far is the prostitutes vs hotel storyline made no sense. It was distractingly implausible. She already had an appointment. There was no need to wear a slutty dress. She could have just put a coat on and walked in. It made no sense.

The two young couples are growing on me. The three men are not.

It can be written by a man and he can choose not to allow a ton of female input. And we can choose to comment on it, and, as you can see, people already are, as is inevitable with these extreme male gaze shows. It's tedious and annoying and people, especially younger people, are getting fed up with it.

So yeah- you can be complacent about it, others can voice their dissatisfaction. Everyone is allowed to have an open discourse on it and I do think this will be brought up. Because it's the rule rather than the exception, and it's very myopic.

Woman here who’s thoroughly enjoying the “male gaze” perspective of this show. I also enjoyed watching Hacks. I can enjoy different gazes in different shows.

+1 Love WL and Hacks!

[Anonymous]

The take that the show is regressive is so weird.

In season one, every single white, wealthy, male character got absolutely skewered by the show as a waste of space. So did all the rich white women, for that matter. The only characters who ended the season as likable, IMO, were the masseuse and the rich white girl's tag along friend -- both women of color. The masseuse gets screwed over but in a realistic way that you can tell even she is like "why did I trust this crazy rich white woman, that was dumb." And the tag along friend winds up screwing over her love interest in order to stay in the good graces of her friend's rich family, but it's understandable because they both realize that there is no "winning" in a rigged system. But at least she realizes that her "friend" is actually full of it and will always choose to take advantage of her privilege, rather than actually stand up for the progressive values she claims to have adopted. It's education and makes her cynical but also probably makes her tougher and less likely to wind up in the masseuse's shoes down the road.

Of course it's upsetting when all the rich people are not held responsible for the terrible things they do -- that's the whole point! You are supposed to be upset by it, while also recognizing this is 100% the way the world works. It's a cynical show but is honest, too. It's shining a light on how these power dynamics actually play out in the world, and it's not offering some sugarcoated redemption story or even an unrealistic comeuppance because that wouldn't be true to life. In reality, rich people get away with doing terrible things all the time because they hold all the power, especially if they are also white, and the rest of us are just pawns. If that upsets you, duh. It should.

I'm sorry you have such a simplistic understanding of storytelling that you can only appreciate a story if it tells you exactly what you want to hear and does so in a voice that most resembles your own. Life is going to pretty hard for you in that case. Unless you're a rich white guy, but based on your comments here, I'm guessing that's not the case. Sucks, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The take that the show is regressive is so weird.

In season one, every single white, wealthy, male character got absolutely skewered by the show as a waste of space. So did all the rich white women, for that matter. The only characters who ended the season as likable, IMO, were the masseuse and the rich white girl's tag along friend -- both women of color. The masseuse gets screwed over but in a realistic way that you can tell even she is like "why did I trust this crazy rich white woman, that was dumb." And the tag along friend winds up screwing over her love interest in order to stay in the good graces of her friend's rich family, but it's understandable because they both realize that there is no "winning" in a rigged system. But at least she realizes that her "friend" is actually full of it and will always choose to take advantage of her privilege, rather than actually stand up for the progressive values she claims to have adopted. It's education and makes her cynical but also probably makes her tougher and less likely to wind up in the masseuse's shoes down the road.

Of course it's upsetting when all the rich people are not held responsible for the terrible things they do -- that's the whole point! You are supposed to be upset by it, while also recognizing this is 100% the way the world works. It's a cynical show but is honest, too. It's shining a light on how these power dynamics actually play out in the world, and it's not offering some sugarcoated redemption story or even an unrealistic comeuppance because that wouldn't be true to life. In reality, rich people get away with doing terrible things all the time because they hold all the power, especially if they are also white, and the rest of us are just pawns. If that upsets you, duh. It should.

I'm sorry you have such a simplistic understanding of storytelling that you can only appreciate a story if it tells you exactly what you want to hear and does so in a voice that most resembles your own. Life is going to pretty hard for you in that case. Unless you're a rich white guy, but based on your comments here, I'm guessing that's not the case. Sucks, right?

I thought this thread was about season 2?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's actually Harper that came into the money. I watched episode two again this morning and listened carefully to see if they ever said *he* earned or came into the money. I didn't pick up on any.

Also when Harper was talking about being from Puerto Rico, and the other couple fake-said they should go, she said "You could stay with my family in San Juan." Maybe her family is super rich.

I'm pretty sure they said he sold his company (Ethan) and made tons of money. In episode one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is Mike White’s show, so I am not mad that it is male gaze. It’s the creation of one person. I suppose now that it’s a hit, it could have a new iteration as something else. But as long as it’s his show, it’s his show. He’s not a woman. Elevate shows created by women. You don’t have to try to shoehorn this one.

My biggest problem with this season so far is the prostitutes vs hotel storyline made no sense. It was distractingly implausible. She already had an appointment. There was no need to wear a slutty dress. She could have just put a coat on and walked in. It made no sense.

The two young couples are growing on me. The three men are not.

It can be written by a man and he can choose not to allow a ton of female input. And we can choose to comment on it, and, as you can see, people already are, as is inevitable with these extreme male gaze shows. It's tedious and annoying and people, especially younger people, are getting fed up with it.

So yeah- you can be complacent about it, others can voice their dissatisfaction. Everyone is allowed to have an open discourse on it and I do think this will be brought up. Because it's the rule rather than the exception, and it's very myopic.

You sound like a fool though

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My frustration so far is that the women are so one dimensional. Whereas the men have complex psychology.

I thought from the preview that this is about to change with Daphne. Maybe we need to let the series play out more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the Aubrey four-ple going to do some wife swapping or something? The rooms connect and the "happy" couple seemed open to the idea of connecting them. Then the whole getting naked in front of Aubrey and the "I want you to like me, it's important" speech.

The other thing I thought would come back was the "happy" couple's wife saying she could cut off her husband's balls if she wanted to. If they don't all swap together and just the husband does it, maybe she will kill her husband? Or kill Aubrey's husband if the swap and she is mad that he still loves his wife Aubrey? Her character seems ineffectual but I think there is a hint of something underneath there that could cause problems. (Though she finds the bodies and is horrified so maybe not.)

It felt to me like Daphne purposefully reached out and talked to the two women at the start of episode 1. They did not engage with her first. Like she wanted to create and alibi or story where all was well on the morning of xyz date. She does a quick side glance as she goes into the water that doesn’t look as carefree as the rest of those seconds as she jumps into the water.

The women she is talking to were on Survivor. I don't think we were meant to take anything from that interaction.

Oh I didn't realize they were from Survivor -- guessing from Mike White's season or people he met through Survivor contacts? That's kind of fun -- I love that he's so obsessed with Survivor that he went and got cast on the show, I thought that was hilarious.

Anyway, the fact that it was a bit of a stunt casting doesn't mean that scene doesn't have importance in the show. In Season One, the very first scene is also a flash forward, to the Jake Lacey character at the airport waiting to leave Hawaii, and mention of the plane waiting on a dead body that we're supposed to think is his wife because he seems so upset and he is playing with his wedding ring. Of course the truth was that the dead body was the hotel concierge, who Jake's character killed, and he's worrying over his wedding ring because he's unsure if his wife, who has just discovered (somehow) that he's an entitled a$$hole who can literally get away with murder, will come back to him and they'll stay married. But at the end of the flash forward teaser, they cut to the main cast on the boat just arriving at the resort.

This season started the exact same way, so it makes sense that what appears to be happening in that first scene with Daphne is not actually what is going on, and that we'll get some big revelations over the course of the season that will reveal how we got it wrong. The presence of some Survivor alums in the scene might just serve as further distraction from what is actually going on. I like PP's theory.

Agree 100%. I do think that Cameron is involved - either he's dead or he is responsible - because that scene is the only time so far (and granted we're only on episode 2) that we see Daphne alone. She is connected to Cameron by the hip in every other scene.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My frustration so far is that the women are so one dimensional. Whereas the men have complex psychology.

I thought from the preview that this is about to change with Daphne. Maybe we need to let the series play out more.

np yes I am definitely anticipating that there will be meaningful arcs for the female characters; the serious cold wife vs the easygoing sweet wife etc. Last season they played with those kinds of tropes and I expect to see that again. IMO it is pretty clear that these characters are set up to surprise us.