The PG Pool is racist [MD]

[Anonymous]

So funny. The pool is literally the most woke place ever. It’s all tree huggers and lesbians. They folded themselves into contortions a couple years ago about whether it was ok to continue to allow smoking on the grounds because it was a freedom/choice issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So funny. The pool is literally the most woke place ever. It’s all tree huggers and lesbians. They folded themselves into contortions a couple years ago about whether it was ok to continue to allow smoking on the grounds because it was a freedom/choice issue.

That was due to the 2017 initiative to only let lesbians who live in Brentwood off the waitlist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of members of PG Pool live in Mt. Rainier, Brentwood and Hyattsville. There is a notable contingent from Brookland (many of whom live closer than some in Mt. Rainier zip) and some from Takoma Park- also quite close if you come down Chillum road. The idea that the pool is completely populated by people from outside the county and even people outside of Mt. Rainier is a myth.

+1. It doesn’t even make any sense- the more logical explanation is that demand outstrips supply in that area. Many families have moved into the surrounding neighborhoods but no new pools have been built.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of members of PG Pool live in Mt. Rainier, Brentwood and Hyattsville. There is a notable contingent from Brookland (many of whom live closer than some in Mt. Rainier zip) and some from Takoma Park- also quite close if you come down Chillum road. The idea that the pool is completely populated by people from outside the county and even people outside of Mt. Rainier is a myth.

Previous posts show pictures of the pool's swim team and from the pool's website: there aren't a whole lot of non-white people in these photos given that Mount Rainier's population is only about 1/3 white.

Also, honestly, most of the people claiming racism and wanting to use zip codes on the waitlist are white families who moved into Mt. Rainier since 2015 and want to get off the waitlist faster.

Bingo.

Agree. And trying to punish the pool by driving up costs will only make it more expensive to run and join. It’s not a for-profit operation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Most MoCo pools have neighborhood or zip code restrictions. That is, you need to live close to the pool to be a member. That’s how it works with the one our family goes to. If you buy a house in the neighborhood, you can join the list or the home’s seller can pass on their membership to you. You can’t pass on your membership to a family member who lives outside the neighborhood.

It sounds like the issue with PGP is that the pool is dominated by outsiders from DC and MoCo. No way will that group be incentivized to change the by-laws to prioritize neighborhood residents or disallow passing down their membership to a family member. Essentially, you have a pool that’s been colonized by outsiders.

Ugly optics.

The pool is very close to the border with DC. Disallowing people from DC wouldn't actually make sense if you're trying for a neighborhood pool. Adding zip code restrictions to nearby zip codes would make more sense, but it could be argued that DC residents in nearby neighborhoods that are closer to the pool are more part of the neighborhood than people in Hyattsville who live nowhere near the pool.

Umm... DC folks don't even live in the same city, county, or state as this pool. This all sounds very colonial.

Well, DC doesn't even have a state, or voting representation in congress, so tell me again who is colonized?

I support DC statehood and also would like the black and brown children in my MtR neighborhood to have a place to swim and cool off during this heatwave.

Are there not public pools in PG county?

The ones in DC are closer geographically to Mt Ranier I think. Anyone can get in. But PG should definitely build more pools with longer hours. All cities need to with global warming making summers too hot!

[Anonymous]

From PG Pool:

I'd like to highlight this recent solicitation for new board and committee members. There are over 2000 pool members (ok some of those are children) while there are 7 current board members (most of whom have been serving for too long). We need fresh blood, ideas, energy and types of people. Interested in knowing more? I'm happy to answer questions:

Solicitation for New Board Members (and we want more committee members, too!)

PG Pool Board

We need you! The PG Pool Board is seeking new elected members to fill specific board vacancies for the coming year. The following vacancies are open:
In-Season Co-op Coordinator
Diversity and Inclusion Liaison
Events Committee Vice-chair
Communications Vice-chair
If you have the time, skills, and passion to fill any of these roles, please reach out to [e-mail] to discuss the details of what's involved.

PG Pool Committees
The board is also looking for people to fill or expand a few committees in 2023. Contact [e-mail] if you are interested. We especially seek folks for the following committees:
Events committee
Beautification committee
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) committee
Communications committee
Physical plant committee (learn about the nuts and bolts of our facilities)
Important Note:
For the board and for committees, one of our goals is diversity. We welcome all board applicants, and especially encourage representation we have less of at this time: newer members, people with young children, and people of diverse races, cultures, gender identities, income, etc. We welcome diverse perspectives and fresh ideas and energy, so don't be shy!

It's all more fun than work. Really! If you'd like to help manage, improve, innovate, or otherwise assist the PG Pool in being awesome, please contact [e-mail] to learn more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

This happened to my neighbor who was facing foreclosure, she could afford the pool back then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

This happened to my neighbor who was facing foreclosure, she could afford the pool back then.

*couldn’t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

I guess it would make sense if that was actually the issue- is it? Does anyone know the waitlist stats by zip code? I find it awful hard to believe this pool is so desirable that people who don’t live close by would wait 10 years on the waitlist to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From PG Pool:

I'd like to highlight this recent solicitation for new board and committee members. There are over 2000 pool members (ok some of those are children) while there are 7 current board members (most of whom have been serving for too long). We need fresh blood, ideas, energy and types of people. Interested in knowing more? I'm happy to answer questions:

Solicitation for New Board Members (and we want more committee members, too!)

PG Pool Board

We need you! The PG Pool Board is seeking new elected members to fill specific board vacancies for the coming year. The following vacancies are open:
In-Season Co-op Coordinator
Diversity and Inclusion Liaison
Events Committee Vice-chair
Communications Vice-chair
If you have the time, skills, and passion to fill any of these roles, please reach out to [e-mail] to discuss the details of what's involved.

PG Pool Committees
The board is also looking for people to fill or expand a few committees in 2023. Contact [e-mail] if you are interested. We especially seek folks for the following committees:
Events committee
Beautification committee
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) committee
Communications committee
Physical plant committee (learn about the nuts and bolts of our facilities)
Important Note:
For the board and for committees, one of our goals is diversity. We welcome all board applicants, and especially encourage representation we have less of at this time: newer members, people with young children, and people of diverse races, cultures, gender identities, income, etc. We welcome diverse perspectives and fresh ideas and energy, so don't be shy!

It's all more fun than work. Really! If you'd like to help manage, improve, innovate, or otherwise assist the PG Pool in being awesome, please contact [e-mail] to learn more.

Can I join the pool board if I’m not a member of the pool?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

This happened to my neighbor who was facing foreclosure, she could afford the pool back then.

Can she now? Does she want to join?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most MoCo pools have neighborhood or zip code restrictions. That is, you need to live close to the pool to be a member. That’s how it works with the one our family goes to. If you buy a house in the neighborhood, you can join the list or the home’s seller can pass on their membership to you. You can’t pass on your membership to a family member who lives outside the neighborhood.

It sounds like the issue with PGP is that the pool is dominated by outsiders from DC and MoCo. No way will that group be incentivized to change the by-laws to prioritize neighborhood residents or disallow passing down their membership to a family member. Essentially, you have a pool that’s been colonized by outsiders.

Ugly optics.

The pool is very close to the border with DC. Disallowing people from DC wouldn't actually make sense if you're trying for a neighborhood pool. Adding zip code restrictions to nearby zip codes would make more sense, but it could be argued that DC residents in nearby neighborhoods that are closer to the pool are more part of the neighborhood than people in Hyattsville who live nowhere near the pool.

Umm... DC folks don't even live in the same city, county, or state as this pool. This all sounds very colonial.

Well, DC doesn't even have a state, or voting representation in congress, so tell me again who is colonized?

I support DC statehood and also would like the black and brown children in my MtR neighborhood to have a place to swim and cool off during this heatwave.

Are there not public pools in PG county?

Yes, there are two public pools extremely close to the PG Pool: Hamilton pool and Rollingcrest-Chillum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

This happened to my neighbor who was facing foreclosure, she could afford the pool back then.

*couldn’t

Yeah. It's a pool. It costs money to run and maintain. It's BY FAR the cheapest private pool in the DMV, so...

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Anonymous wrote:I mean, for the 2 adults and 2 kids, the membership fee is $650/year. Given the strong correlation in the DC area of race with income, is that fee something that Black community members can afford?

This isn't some luxury pool, btw. It looks like it barely scrapes by.

Well it's a chicken and egg thing isn't it.

If people like you think Black people can't afford the pool, they won't accept Black people as members.

Also, it's not cheap for most families, even those that can afford it. If you were Black, would it be a priority to pay for a pool with such recent racist history?

Probably not when they can go to the free DC pools instead. Pools need money to function- so you either have public pools subsidized by the local jurisdictions or you have private pools where the costs are covered entirely by its members. It would be great if the PG government would build more pools so there were more accessible and affordable options available for its residents.

And the other PP is right that the long waitlist is a somewhat recent development. By the way some people talk you’d think the pool was entirely comprised of legacy members and black residents have had no opportunity to join.

You know that not all Black people are poor right? And racial disparities are not just about socioeconomic differences?

DP. Of course, generally. But in Mt. Rainier, the lower income families definitely skew toward people of color. The single family homes are pretty evenly distributed among white, black, and latino owners, but a large portion of the Mt. Rainier citizenry is in the large apartment complexes that are almost all black and latino (although more black, I think). I'm sure the apartment dwellers have far less income. BTW, the large apartment complex right next to the PG Pool has its own pool, although I rarely see anyone in it. It doesn't have a life guard, so I don't know if that's cause or effect or irrelevant to usage.

The apartment pool isn't operational most of the time, probably because these are low-income apartments.

It must be sad for all the Black and Brown children in these Mount Rainier apartments to look out the window and watch all of these white kids cool off from the horrific heat in your pay-to-play pool (PG Pool) across the street.

PP here. Agree. I'm also the PP who joined about 15 years ago. I've always been heartbroken at the thought of the kids in those apartments watching pool members come and go.

+100 Weight the waitlist and do outreach to the apartments.

Outreach? Do you think they are somehow unaware there is a pool there? Why don’t you do a little survey and find out what the barriers are- e.g. how many are toiling for years in the waitlist vs. simply can’t afford it or don’t want to?

Or aren't bothering to be on the waiting list because they know their kids will be too old to enjoy it when they get off.

It seems like there's an easy solution, which is to offer priority on the wait list to people who live within a certain distance. If the initial reason they didn't give neighborhood priority was racist, and the result of the lack of neighborhood priority is what continues to contribute to a pool that doesn't reflect the neighborhood, then it seems like the solution is obvious.

Initial reason? For years there was NO waitlist. So you’re saying that just a few years ago, when the waitlist started growing, the pool board was deliberately being racist be not prioritizing membership by zip code?

Also I’m not sure there would be as much movement as you think- unless you’re really suggesting they drill down and also prioritize certain races within those zip codes. Is that what you’re suggesting?

I think the PP's zone-based weighting for the waitlist isn't a bad idea. That would ensure representation from Mount Rainier, Brentwood, North Brentwood, Hyattsville, parts of TKPK, and parts of NE DC.

The argument that people in the community didn't want to join this pool when there wasn't a wait list years ago isn't a sound position, in my humble opinion. Today's pool membership rates are $230 per adult for the summer + $70-$140 for dependents in the summer. Back in 2008-2012, Mount Rainier was hit really hard by the housing crash, much harder than other communities in DC/MoCo. I bet a lot of families facing foreclosure couldn't afford these costs even if there wasn't a wait list back then.

I guess it would make sense if that was actually the issue- is it? Does anyone know the waitlist stats by zip code? I find it awful hard to believe this pool is so desirable that people who don’t live close by would wait 10 years on the waitlist to get in.

If it's a non-issue, then why not do this weighting approach anyways? I think it would go a long way to show the pool is in fact not a little segregated colony of people who will vacation in PGC but not want to live here.