Clustering of special Ed kids in gen Ed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be sped schools, the way they have AAP centers.

So kids in SPED classes can be ignored? Because SPED only classes tended to turn into warehouses for kids for many different reasons. And kids who are capable and can excel are left behind because they don't receive the resources and help that they need. The comments in this thread point to why that happens.

There are lots of SPED kids who do well in school with some help and are very successful in college. There are lots of SPED kids who do well in school and choose a Vo Tech field. There is a small percentage of SPED kids who are disruptive.

And some of those super disruptive kids in your kids Gen Ed classroom might very well not be SPED kids but kids who are acting out for a variety of reasons.

But we do need more specialized programs for the kids who are struggling in the classroom and who are acting out. And we do need a way to speed up moving kids to those environments so that they can get the help that they need. They are expensive and harder to find Teachers for.

Expelling disruptive students and sending them to alternative schools would solve so many of these problems. There is no reason to sacrifice a year of school for a whole classroom because Larla is a chair thrower or Larlo likes to scream at classmates

Oh, it's that ignorant jerk who discriminates against special ed students and refers to them as chair throwers.

A lot of you nt parents seem to always assume that any class with any number of special ed students is less than any other class. That is the root of a lot of these complaints.

Why do you think people conflate all special ed students? No one cares if their kid is in a class with a kid who has medically controlled ADHD or a kid with ASD who is a great student or a kid with dyslexia. People care when they have kids with behavioral problems in a classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should do real "team taught" classes at the elementary level. Instead you have an overworked Special Ed teacher trying to handle push in/ pull out across various grade levels and different IAs cycling in and out throughout the day.

They should also have team taught Honors and AP classes in MS and HS, but except for one here and there, they do not. It is all about $$$.

If your child wants to be in an AP class and requires and aide, they have to provide it. Sign your kid up and advocate. The school system CAN NOT provide fewer options for your kid because of this. The laws are clear. I see these posts year after year and I just assume you are parents who like to complain and refuse to speak up. File a state complaint.

I may be fighting this fight in a year for my dyslexic child to take advanced math in middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They’re probably looking at overall test scores for the school. It’s better for the scores to sacrifice one complete class and have the other classes do well (hopefully) than to have nobody learning anything across the board.

I think the laws probably need to change. They were written with things like physical disabilities in mind, not this explosion in disruptive and even violent behavior that prevents other kids from learning.[b]

- source: I made it up.

+100. That poster is ignorant and needs to move their most special snowflake to a private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should do real "team taught" classes at the elementary level. Instead you have an overworked Special Ed teacher trying to handle push in/ pull out across various grade levels and different IAs cycling in and out throughout the day.

They should also have team taught Honors and AP classes in MS and HS, but except for one here and there, they do not. It is all about $$$.

Which schools have it? Unfortunately, my DC’s MS does not have it.

I suggest you join Fairfax SEPTA and the 2E groups that are pushing for this.

Please explain this to me. The school system can't offer classes that are not open to students with disabilities. Has anyone filed a state complaint? They have to do whatever is needed to make these classes available to sns kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be sped schools, the way they have AAP centers.

Least Restrictive Environment be like: do I mean nothing to you?

But what about the rights of the other students to learn?

Nothing is stopping them but a lot of you want to block sns children from access to a reasonable education. You think they have cooties?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The best years my gen Ed kid has had have been in inclusion classrooms. The unfounded judgment of kids with IEPs is disgusting.

It's not unfounded for many kids in these inclusive classrooms who have had very negative, even traumatic experiences.

My kid had to see a therapist for anxiety related to going to school in her inclusive class. Why? Because two students in the class regularly had meltdowns that caused the classroom to be evacuated. These meltdowns included lots of yelling, throwing items, and in a few cases, outright assault on the teacher and aide.

It got to the point where their class was evacuating the classroom weekly. The one student's behavior just got more and more destructive to the point where he trashed a classroom one time and the kids had to finish out the day in neighboring classrooms.

That's UNACCEPTABLE behavior for anyone. My kid shouldn't have been scared of going to school because of two students who, and I will just keep it real, are never going to amount to anything. One student is mostly nonverbal with significant delays. I cannot think of any job that he can do in his future. It's sad, but it is what it is.

When I was in school, these types of students were in their own classrooms. That's how it should be. If you're a disruptive student, you don't get to be mainstreamed.

You are a disgusting person.

I wonder if this is the classroom in FFX ? that made the local news because the room was being evacuated so often that it was disruptive to everyone. This was an unusual case and isn't the norm. Parents of nt kids love to pull this one out as an example.

[Anonymous]

I get why clustering occurs, but there is a distinct downside too, especially when it’s behavior issues and not learning impediments. When it’s one disruptive kid maybe that’s possible for a teacher to control, but when it is multiple kids, that’s setting the whole class up for failure.

My DC was in a clustered classroom with a seasoned teacher and they ended the year far short of the yearly goals and missed entire units due to an incredibly disruptive classroom. I realized in March that other classes were considerably further ahead and spoke to the teacher and principal about it, there was little they could do, and that spring I made a request that DC not be in the clustered class again the following year. That was honored and the difference was night and day.

The feedback here from SN parents are that their children are more important than children who need less support. That’s not helpful. Every child is promised a free and appropriate education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A significant number of these posts are extremely ableist. I would encourage the posters to reevaluate wrongly held prejudices.

Ableist is a meaningless word that is just used to attack other people.

I think this ableist language is actually at the detriment to special needs individuals. My DH has bad ADHD. He would never force his coworkers to put up with it or for it to be a problem for him. He makes lists, checks them twice, has timers, reminder apps, etc. He's really successful. In fact, it helps DH a lot at work. He has incredible focus on individual tasks (he's an engineer) that is characteristic of ADHD.

Ableist means not making fun of someone or discriminating against someone. It doesn't mean that we should require kids to sit there while classmates tantrum on the floor, throw chairs and scream.

I’m not at all about wokeism, but the dominant message of this thread is that “those kids” are “dead weight” who are stealing resources from your “good kids.” It’s absolutely prejudiced and has nothing to do with your fully functioning adult husband.

When one set of kids has federal protections that result in the county spending $600 million on SPED vs $2 billion on regular education, then it's not a stretch to say that gen ed students are losing out.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be sped schools, the way they have AAP centers.

So kids in SPED classes can be ignored? Because SPED only classes tended to turn into warehouses for kids for many different reasons. And kids who are capable and can excel are left behind because they don't receive the resources and help that they need. The comments in this thread point to why that happens.

There are lots of SPED kids who do well in school with some help and are very successful in college. There are lots of SPED kids who do well in school and choose a Vo Tech field. There is a small percentage of SPED kids who are disruptive.

And some of those super disruptive kids in your kids Gen Ed classroom might very well not be SPED kids but kids who are acting out for a variety of reasons.

But we do need more specialized programs for the kids who are struggling in the classroom and who are acting out. And we do need a way to speed up moving kids to those environments so that they can get the help that they need. They are expensive and harder to find Teachers for.

Expelling disruptive students and sending them to alternative schools would solve so many of these problems. There is no reason to sacrifice a year of school for a whole classroom because Larla is a chair thrower or Larlo likes to scream at classmates

Oh, it's that ignorant jerk who discriminates against special ed students and refers to them as chair throwers.

A lot of you nt parents seem to always assume that any class with any number of special ed students is less than any other class. That is the root of a lot of these complaints.

Why do you think people conflate all special ed students? No one cares if their kid is in a class with a kid who has medically controlled ADHD or a kid with ASD who is a great student or a kid with dyslexia. People care when they have kids with behavioral problems in a classroom.

And yet, many/most behaivoral problems are not kids with IEPs ... and for the kids with the IEPs, generally the school is not providing the services it should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be sped schools, the way they have AAP centers.

Least Restrictive Environment be like: do I mean nothing to you?

But what about the rights of the other students to learn?

Nothing is stopping them but a lot of you want to block sns children from access to a reasonable education. You think they have cooties?

I think people are frustrated with kids who are disrupting class and continue to disrupt class. Does one child's right to an education out weight the rights of the other 20 some kids in the classroom.

I think parents don't want their kids to be acting as tutors for other kids because that is not their child's job.

I have no problem with SPED kids being mainstreamed, I was one. But there is a line where a kid does not belong in the mainstream classroom no matter ho much the parents want their kid in the class. I would think that a kid who is hurting people in class or trashing a classroom or acting out so badly that the class has to stop learning then that child needs to be in a different environment. The mainstream environment is not helping that child or the other children in the room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A significant number of these posts are extremely ableist. I would encourage the posters to reevaluate wrongly held prejudices.

Ableist is a meaningless word that is just used to attack other people.

I think this ableist language is actually at the detriment to special needs individuals. My DH has bad ADHD. He would never force his coworkers to put up with it or for it to be a problem for him. He makes lists, checks them twice, has timers, reminder apps, etc. He's really successful. In fact, it helps DH a lot at work. He has incredible focus on individual tasks (he's an engineer) that is characteristic of ADHD.

Ableist means not making fun of someone or discriminating against someone. It doesn't mean that we should require kids to sit there while classmates tantrum on the floor, throw chairs and scream.

I’m not at all about wokeism, but the dominant message of this thread is that “those kids” are “dead weight” who are stealing resources from your “good kids.” It’s absolutely prejudiced and has nothing to do with your fully functioning adult husband.

When one set of kids has federal protections that result in the county spending $600 million on SPED vs $2 billion on regular education, then it's not a stretch to say that gen ed students are losing out.

YOUR GEN ED STUDENT IS NOT DISABLED. *That's* the benefit you get. Are you also mad that people with heart attacks or who give birth consume more health care resources in a year? (Also I'm not sure about your budget math but will let that slide.) And of course, reducing money to special ed will just make the problem worse, not better. If you want to advocate for more money for all kids, nobody will argue with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be sped schools, the way they have AAP centers.

Least Restrictive Environment be like: do I mean nothing to you?

But what about the rights of the other students to learn?

They are still learning… it may not be at the pace you want but that isn’t specified by law. Admin and teachers have to follow the law before the needs of the the other kids. Sorry, it is what it is. You should lobby for more flexibility for students to be transferred to other programs/schools; because now, it is virtually impossible to do that without SPED parents suing the district.

+1 Hey, more opportunity to tell people about the law!!

Schools only must provide a “serviceable Chevrolet,” not a Cadillac, to afford a student a free appropriate public education (FAPE). The analogy is often associated with the seminal U.S. Supreme Court case known as Rowley, which said that public education requires only a “basic floor of opportunity,” not that schools “maximize” a child’s educational potential. The “Chevy vs. Cadillac” analogy was coined and used by lower courts after Rowley, and suggests that schools need only provide a bare minimum of services to afford a student FAPE.

Only students in special Ed are afforded FAPE (free and appropriate public education). General Ed students are NOT. A general Ed student could have a different substitute teacher every day who does nothing with the students. A general Ed student could have a substitute math teacher who know nothing about math and shows movies every day and there is no recourse. A general Ed student can be in a class that is evacuated every day and not learn a thing and there is nothing a parent can do.

You are ridiculous. Your assumption that special ed students get better teachers is incorrect. Most school systems do everything they can for the top students and give special ed the least. Did you not realize special ed kids get the same crappy substitutes?. Special ed substitutes can be anybody. My kid was abused by a substitute who knew nothing about special ed. We get the same lousy teachers. My kid with an iep had the worst math teacher in hs. All of our kids were affected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the way it was when our kids were in FCPS general ed. Almost no learning was happening by the time our youngest was in third grade and up. There was always at least two kids throwing chairs in the classroom, throwing classmates' stuff off their desks, and in general wandering around and disrupting class to the point that the teacher was doing nothing except addressing them. Classroom assistant? Haha, no. Just the teacher handling nearly 30 students alone.

And that was pre-pandemic.

Good luck.

I have been through decades of public school with my kids, one has an iep, and have never experienced anything like this. There were disruptive non sped kids in middle school who were a problem and one kid in first grade who was not special ed who was disruptive. The kid adapted and settled down by second grade. The reality is that the teacher in that class, who had been there forever, was awful. She couldn't manage anything..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why is clustering allowed. It’s not good for anyone. It essentially creates a class within a class.

So most of you WANT to cluster with the AAP kids, but you DON'T want clustered with the sped kids. Is that right? Makes sense.

They want to be in the cluster with the AAP kids and not in the cluster with the SPED kids.

They need a combined AAP SPED program.

Absolutely not. This is discriminatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should do real "team taught" classes at the elementary level. Instead you have an overworked Special Ed teacher trying to handle push in/ pull out across various grade levels and different IAs cycling in and out throughout the day.

They should also have team taught Honors and AP classes in MS and HS, but except for one here and there, they do not. It is all about $$$.

If your child wants to be in an AP class and requires and aide, they have to provide it. Sign your kid up and advocate. The school system CAN NOT provide fewer options for your kid because of this. The laws are clear. I see these posts year after year and I just assume you are parents who like to complain and refuse to speak up. File a state complaint.

I may be fighting this fight in a year for my dyslexic child to take advanced math in middle school.

My DC took Algebra Honors in 7th grade and has very severe dyslexia and dysgraphia. They should allow it.