Clustering of special Ed kids in gen Ed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At our ES, one SN child was asking that my son be in his class. A compliment I know, but that meant my son was with her son and the other SN students year after year. It wasn't random. The SN's parents were allowed "a say". I was not and didn't know this was happening until years later.


Parents like you are horrible for sns parents to deal with. Assuming that the class with a sns kid is somehow undesirable is vile.

I'm in favor of inclusion but should it affect my son's placement EVERY year? The other Mother determines his placement every year? Without me knowing about it

Exactly. I have a type-A rule follower and he was routinely sat next to the most disruptive kids to be a “peer model” until I asked for it to stop. Non-identified kids have needs too

I have one of these kids too and I only heard a slight grumble once early on about Larlo being difficult to work with. I quickly put a stop to that saying that it's part of school and learning for DC to work with all kinds of kids including those who don't do as well in cooperation or who may struggle with certain tasks. Sometimes kids with some types of SN think more creatively or out of the box than others and if have a partner who can pull those ideas out of that child you may one day have a cure for cancer or AIDS or global warming.

I would never ask a teacher to "stop" this grouping because it's just part of normal school and teacher's job trying to create groups that will be productive.

As a teacher, I would say you are paying a huge disservice to the kid who is supposed to serve as a peer model. I try different kinds of groupings, myself, but I like to put the motivated ones who challenge each other, together. I also place all the ones who don’t do any work together.

Glad to hear I’m not the only one who does that. 😊

Oh, gosh. That is a terrible approach. You've pretty much given up and guaranteed failure for those kids.

How? I’m differentiating for each table group versus differentiating 3 ways at the same table group (then doing it 5 more times). It’s more efficient. Plus when I mix the skills at the table, the low kids just copy of the high learners.

Exactly. The students who are dead weight aren’t learning how to swim in the advanced groups. They need to learn how to swim or drown on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A significant number of these posts are extremely ableist. I would encourage the posters to reevaluate wrongly held prejudices.

Ableist is a meaningless word that is just used to attack other people.

I think this ableist language is actually at the detriment to special needs individuals. My DH has bad ADHD. He would never force his coworkers to put up with it or for it to be a problem for him. He makes lists, checks them twice, has timers, reminder apps, etc. He's really successful. In fact, it helps DH a lot at work. He has incredible focus on individual tasks (he's an engineer) that is characteristic of ADHD.

Ableist means not making fun of someone or discriminating against someone. It doesn't mean that we should require kids to sit there while classmates tantrum on the floor, throw chairs and scream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At our ES, one SN child was asking that my son be in his class. A compliment I know, but that meant my son was with her son and the other SN students year after year. It wasn't random. The SN's parents were allowed "a say". I was not and didn't know this was happening until years later.


Parents like you are horrible for sns parents to deal with. Assuming that the class with a sns kid is somehow undesirable is vile.

I'm in favor of inclusion but should it affect my son's placement EVERY year? The other Mother determines his placement every year? Without me knowing about it

Exactly. I have a type-A rule follower and he was routinely sat next to the most disruptive kids to be a “peer model” until I asked for it to stop. Non-identified kids have needs too

I have one of these kids too and I only heard a slight grumble once early on about Larlo being difficult to work with. I quickly put a stop to that saying that it's part of school and learning for DC to work with all kinds of kids including those who don't do as well in cooperation or who may struggle with certain tasks. Sometimes kids with some types of SN think more creatively or out of the box than others and if have a partner who can pull those ideas out of that child you may one day have a cure for cancer or AIDS or global warming.

I would never ask a teacher to "stop" this grouping because it's just part of normal school and teacher's job trying to create groups that will be productive.

As a teacher, I would say you are paying a huge disservice to the kid who is supposed to serve as a peer model. I try different kinds of groupings, myself, but I like to put the motivated ones who challenge each other, together. I also place all the ones who don’t do any work together.

Glad to hear I’m not the only one who does that. 😊

Oh, gosh. That is a terrible approach. You've pretty much given up and guaranteed failure for those kids.

How? I’m differentiating for each table group versus differentiating 3 ways at the same table group (then doing it 5 more times). It’s more efficient. Plus when I mix the skills at the table, the low kids just copy of the high learners.

Exactly. The students who are dead weight aren’t learning how to swim in the advanced groups. They need to learn how to swim or drown on their own.

Obviously, I don’t mean literally “drown,” but when has anyone learned anything without going through a series of failures?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

At our ES, one SN child was asking that my son be in his class. A compliment I know, but that meant my son was with her son and the other SN students year after year. It wasn't random. The SN's parents were allowed "a say". I was not and didn't know this was happening until years later.


Parents like you are horrible for sns parents to deal with. Assuming that the class with a sns kid is somehow undesirable is vile.

I'm in favor of inclusion but should it affect my son's placement EVERY year? The other Mother determines his placement every year? Without me knowing about it

Sns mom here. How did it hurt your kid to be in the same class. You are assuming that class is somehow "less"? You are clearly assuming that child is less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do it our school as well. Admission says it is “easier” for special Ed to teachers to plug in

This, we had to fight to get our kid out.

Happened to us too. It was not until our otherwise happy and easy going DS started to refuse to go to school. Then we started to learn about horrific discipline issues and teacher’s inability to control the classroom or provide sufficient attention to kids with no problems. It took us several months to pull him out. No problems in the new classroom. Principals, how do you decide which kids who have no problems are ok to just throw in the mix? I would have never agreed to have our DS placed in this classroom. This is unfair set-up all around.

+1

Yup> The kids with fewer/no problems are babysitting the ones with problems in FCPS - it's FCPS's dirty little (BIG) secret.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A significant number of these posts are extremely ableist. I would encourage the posters to reevaluate wrongly held prejudices.

Ableist is a meaningless word that is just used to attack other people.

I think this ableist language is actually at the detriment to special needs individuals. My DH has bad ADHD. He would never force his coworkers to put up with it or for it to be a problem for him. He makes lists, checks them twice, has timers, reminder apps, etc. He's really successful. In fact, it helps DH a lot at work. He has incredible focus on individual tasks (he's an engineer) that is characteristic of ADHD.

Ableist means not making fun of someone or discriminating against someone. It doesn't mean that we should require kids to sit there while classmates tantrum on the floor, throw chairs and scream.

I’m not at all about wokeism, but the dominant message of this thread is that “those kids” are “dead weight” who are stealing resources from your “good kids.” It’s absolutely prejudiced and has nothing to do with your fully functioning adult husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter had a horrible third grade experience because there were a few kids who were very badly behaved with special needs. The teacher was experienced but she could not handle it and she would yell at all the kids or just disappear into the copy room. She quit the next year. It was very unfair that my well-behaved and academic daughter was sacrificed as were the many other kids in the class who behaved and didn’t have issues. The school clearly put all the easy kids with the challenging kids in that class.

Your daughter is not that “academic” if she can’t handle a few special needs kids in her classroom. Fact.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

I think the point PP is trying to make is this is your daughter's issue and that she can't be that academic if she's bothered by something that's really normal and that is part of real life.

Sorry, no. These kinds of ongoing disruptive behaviors keeping other students from being able to access their own education are not "normal" and "part of real life," no matter how many words you use to try to normalize them. No.

+1

x1000000

When my kid can't proceed bc they are stuck explaining to the untreated kids who can't listen to directions the first (or second, or third, or fourth) time - in AP? GMAB!

My kid isn't there to hold your kids hand the ENTIRE SCHOOL YEAR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They do it our school as well. Admission says it is “easier” for special Ed to teachers to plug in

This, we had to fight to get our kid out.

Happened to us too. It was not until our otherwise happy and easy going DS started to refuse to go to school. Then we started to learn about horrific discipline issues and teacher’s inability to control the classroom or provide sufficient attention to kids with no problems. It took us several months to pull him out. No problems in the new classroom. Principals, how do you decide which kids who have no problems are ok to just throw in the mix? I would have never agreed to have our DS placed in this classroom. This is unfair set-up all around.

+1

Yup> The kids with fewer/no problems are babysitting the ones with problems in FCPS - it's FCPS's dirty little (BIG) secret.

This is happening all over the country, it is not specific to FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At our ES, one SN child was asking that my son be in his class. A compliment I know, but that meant my son was with her son and the other SN students year after year. It wasn't random. The SN's parents were allowed "a say". I was not and didn't know this was happening until years later.


Parents like you are horrible for sns parents to deal with. Assuming that the class with a sns kid is somehow undesirable is vile.

I'm in favor of inclusion but should it affect my son's placement EVERY year? The other Mother determines his placement every year? Without me knowing about it

Exactly. I have a type-A rule follower and he was routinely sat next to the most disruptive kids to be a “peer model” until I asked for it to stop. Non-identified kids have needs too

I have one of these kids too and I only heard a slight grumble once early on about Larlo being difficult to work with. I quickly put a stop to that saying that it's part of school and learning for DC to work with all kinds of kids including those who don't do as well in cooperation or who may struggle with certain tasks. Sometimes kids with some types of SN think more creatively or out of the box than others and if have a partner who can pull those ideas out of that child you may one day have a cure for cancer or AIDS or global warming.

I would never ask a teacher to "stop" this grouping because it's just part of normal school and teacher's job trying to create groups that will be productive.

As a teacher, I would say you are paying a huge disservice to the kid who is supposed to serve as a peer model. I try different kinds of groupings, myself, but I like to put the motivated ones who challenge each other, together. I also place all the ones who don’t do any work together.

Glad to hear I’m not the only one who does that. 😊

Oh, gosh. That is a terrible approach. You've pretty much given up and guaranteed failure for those kids.

How? I’m differentiating for each table group versus differentiating 3 ways at the same table group (then doing it 5 more times). It’s more efficient. Plus when I mix the skills at the table, the low kids just copy of the high learners.

Exactly. The students who are dead weight aren’t learning how to swim in the advanced groups. They need to learn how to swim or drown on their own.

Obviously, I don’t mean literally “drown,” but when has anyone learned anything without going through a series of failures?

It’s not really a true failure, if the student never even tried. Literally sitting there like a stump on a log.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A significant number of these posts are extremely ableist. I would encourage the posters to reevaluate wrongly held prejudices.

Ableist is a meaningless word that is just used to attack other people.

I think this ableist language is actually at the detriment to special needs individuals. My DH has bad ADHD. He would never force his coworkers to put up with it or for it to be a problem for him. He makes lists, checks them twice, has timers, reminder apps, etc. He's really successful. In fact, it helps DH a lot at work. He has incredible focus on individual tasks (he's an engineer) that is characteristic of ADHD.

Ableist means not making fun of someone or discriminating against someone. It doesn't mean that we should require kids to sit there while classmates tantrum on the floor, throw chairs and scream.

I’m not at all about wokeism, but the dominant message of this thread is that “those kids” are “dead weight” who are stealing resources from your “good kids.” It’s absolutely prejudiced and has nothing to do with your fully functioning adult husband.

+100%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A significant number of these posts are extremely ableist. I would encourage the posters to reevaluate wrongly held prejudices.

Ableist is a meaningless word that is just used to attack other people.

I think this ableist language is actually at the detriment to special needs individuals. My DH has bad ADHD. He would never force his coworkers to put up with it or for it to be a problem for him. He makes lists, checks them twice, has timers, reminder apps, etc. He's really successful. In fact, it helps DH a lot at work. He has incredible focus on individual tasks (he's an engineer) that is characteristic of ADHD.

Ableist means not making fun of someone or discriminating against someone. It doesn't mean that we should require kids to sit there while classmates tantrum on the floor, throw chairs and scream.

I’m not at all about wokeism, but the dominant message of this thread is that “those kids” are “dead weight” who are stealing resources from your “good kids.” It’s absolutely prejudiced and has nothing to do with your fully functioning adult husband.

When one set of kids has federal protections that result in the county spending $600 million on SPED vs $2 billion on regular education, then it's not a stretch to say that gen ed students are losing out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should do real "team taught" classes at the elementary level. Instead you have an overworked Special Ed teacher trying to handle push in/ pull out across various grade levels and different IAs cycling in and out throughout the day.

They should also have team taught Honors and AP classes in MS and HS, but except for one here and there, they do not. It is all about $$$.

If your child wants to be in an AP class and requires and aide, they have to provide it. Sign your kid up and advocate. The school system CAN NOT provide fewer options for your kid because of this. The laws are clear. I see these posts year after year and I just assume you are parents who like to complain and refuse to speak up. File a state complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be sped schools, the way they have AAP centers.

So kids in SPED classes can be ignored? Because SPED only classes tended to turn into warehouses for kids for many different reasons. And kids who are capable and can excel are left behind because they don't receive the resources and help that they need. The comments in this thread point to why that happens.

There are lots of SPED kids who do well in school with some help and are very successful in college. There are lots of SPED kids who do well in school and choose a Vo Tech field. There is a small percentage of SPED kids who are disruptive.

And some of those super disruptive kids in your kids Gen Ed classroom might very well not be SPED kids but kids who are acting out for a variety of reasons.

But we do need more specialized programs for the kids who are struggling in the classroom and who are acting out. And we do need a way to speed up moving kids to those environments so that they can get the help that they need. They are expensive and harder to find Teachers for.

Expelling disruptive students and sending them to alternative schools would solve so many of these problems. There is no reason to sacrifice a year of school for a whole classroom because Larla is a chair thrower or Larlo likes to scream at classmates

Oh, it's that ignorant jerk who discriminates against special ed students and refers to them as chair throwers.

A lot of you nt parents seem to always assume that any class with any number of special ed students is less than any other class. That is the root of a lot of these complaints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There should be sped schools, the way they have AAP centers.

You realize their a federal law against that, right?

Is there federal funding to pay for all the additional expenses associated with special education? Is there federal support for creating special education teacher programs and pipelines to make sure we have enough teachers to fill these jobs? It’s crazy to me how all of this rests on local school districts (including the large number of lawsuits by special ed parents that systems have to defend).

Of course not, but complaining on DCUM does nothing to resolve those problems. Laws to support SPED students WILL NOT change, so we have to work with them.

Wrong. There is federal funding for special ed but it isn't the amount that was promised when IDEA was implemented.

Way to try to drum up more discrimination against special ed students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids with IEPs with near perfect behavior and some of the kindest kids you will ever meet. They have dyslexia. They were grouped together this year in a class with other kids with dyslexia/reading difficulties amongst stronger academic kids. I’m friends with their teacher and she said she had the best class with zero behavioral problems. Not all kids with IEPs have behavioral problems.

I have begun to resent some of the parents of the kids with dyslexia. They came in and took over our sns parent group and made it clear they were against inclusion and regularly made insulting comments insinuating their kids were less disabled. They have been some of the most entitled parents I've had to deal with since beginning this journey.

I'm sorry that your SNS group was taken over. I am a parent of a kid with dyslexia and also a parent of a kid with ASD/ADHD. The kids with dyslexia are different from the kids with other special needs, in part because they often also have anxiety, which makes them somewhat less tolerant of ASD/ADHD behaviors than the "average" child might be. All parents should be advocating for their children, but unfortunately, to some extent it is currently a zero sum game in terms of resources and every benefit for one group comes at the expense of another group. Hopefully the move to Science of Reading and return to teaching phonics will reduce the number of kids that need special education services for reading disabilities (and will also hopefully reduce the anxiety in these kids).