Abortion and religion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not religious but I've always been pretty against elective abortion but from a science view. Can Christians help me: what is the biblical support for being against abortions? I've heard that there's nothing really specific in the Bible about abortion. Is that true?

Yes Jesus and Old Testament prophets had nothing to say about abortion. They had plenty to say about helping people in need though.

I don’t see how you can be again abortion from a science perspective. If pregnancies are caused by rape, incest, domestic violence or will likely keep the mother and child in cycles of poverty, what is the science for opposing abortions within first two trimesters?

[Anonymous]

Evangelicals also believe that women are men's property, so it is about control as well.

Again, if people want this for themselves, that is their perrogative, but to impose it on the rest of us is just sick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although not totally clear, the bible strongly supports a conclusion that: (1) a husband who suspects his wife of infidelity can force her to take an abortifacient (the ordeal of bitter waters); and (2) if someone causes your wife to miscarry, it is not akin to murder, but rather something that should be subject to a civil lawsuit where the husband may be compensated for injury to his property.

I am not sure where the strong Christian objection to abortion even comes from.

It came from racism. Evangelicals didn’t like that the public schools were integrated so they started their own religious schools to keep their kids’ schools segregated. It started messing with their tax status, so they needed voters to elect people who’d let them keep the segregated religious schools and their tax exemptions, but it wasn’t an issue that drove people to the polls. They figured out that abortion would, so they changed their stance that it’s a private medical issue to it being an issue of murdering babies, and that’s how it took off. Eventually the school stuff sort of resolved, but the abortion issue stuck around. I believe it was billy graham who previously supported abortion as healthcare but changed his stance when conservatives needed him to, and I know it used to be seen as necessary healthcare in the Southern Baptist Convention’s doctrine. So like most political things conservatives do, it’s rooted in evil.

And the prosperity gospel.

White Evangelical Christians who just after superficial emblems of the American good life while shutting out the needs of the many who are being left behind can delude themselves that they are actually morally virtuous.

The Bible should not be taken literally as there are some imperatives that are outrageous by today’s standards - but overall, it is pretty clear that morality means:

(1) loving God with your whole heart and others like yourself; and

(2) pursuing wide spread social Justice in practical ways with humility.

All the judgment against women who choose to abort due to heart breaking circumstances is theologically unsound.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not religious but I've always been pretty against elective abortion but from a science view. Can Christians help me: what is the biblical support for being against abortions? I've heard that there's nothing really specific in the Bible about abortion. Is that true?

You can be against abortion for whatever reason you want. I respect you don't ever want to get an abortion.

Just don't impose your view on others. Their reproductive life is none of your business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Although not totally clear, the bible strongly supports a conclusion that: (1) a husband who suspects his wife of infidelity can force her to take an abortifacient (the ordeal of bitter waters); and (2) if someone causes your wife to miscarry, it is not akin to murder, but rather something that should be subject to a civil lawsuit where the husband may be compensated for injury to his property.

I am not sure where the strong Christian objection to abortion even comes from.

It came from racism. Evangelicals didn’t like that the public schools were integrated so they started their own religious schools to keep their kids’ schools segregated. It started messing with their tax status, so they needed voters to elect people who’d let them keep the segregated religious schools and their tax exemptions, but it wasn’t an issue that drove people to the polls. They figured out that abortion would, so they changed their stance that it’s a private medical issue to it being an issue of murdering babies, and that’s how it took off. Eventually the school stuff sort of resolved, but the abortion issue stuck around. I believe it was billy graham who previously supported abortion as healthcare but changed his stance when conservatives needed him to, and I know it used to be seen as necessary healthcare in the Southern Baptist Convention’s doctrine. So like most political things conservatives do, it’s rooted in evil.

And the prosperity gospel.

White Evangelical Christians who just after superficial emblems of the American good life while shutting out the needs of the many who are being left behind can delude themselves that they are actually morally virtuous.

The Bible should not be taken literally as there are some imperatives that are outrageous by today’s standards - but overall, it is pretty clear that morality means:

(1) loving God with your whole heart and others like yourself; and

(2) pursuing wide spread social Justice in practical ways with humility.

All the judgment against women who choose to abort due to heart breaking circumstances is theologically unsound.

That’s not how it became a political movement though. That’s how they misinterpret the Bible to justify whatever nonsense they’re selling to the congregation at any given moment. The political movement to deny women access to abortion was rooted in racism. It’s as simple as that.

[Anonymous]

Anyone who is part of a Judeo-Christian religion and who claims religious support for a pro-life position should remember that Jewish law dictates that an unborn child is not a life. Life does not begin until birth. As such, Jewish law requires that, if the life of the mother is in danger, the fetus must be aborted. Jewish law does not condemn abortion in any way, shape, or form.

So, since Judaism is the original Judeo-Christian religion, pro-lifers need to contend with the reality that they have changed the law from what Judaism established. There is a strong argument to be made that abortion bans violate Jews’ religious freedom.

[Anonymous]

Oh and when we’re on the topic of what Jewish law/the Torah says about these sorts of things, let’s establish one more thing: while the Torah describes marital sex as holy, it does not condemn premarital sex. In fact, Judaism does not consider sexual desires to be sinful. It considers them a part of basic carnal needs, just like hunger, thirst, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh and when we’re on the topic of what Jewish law/the Torah says about these sorts of things, let’s establish one more thing: while the Torah describes marital sex as holy, it does not condemn premarital sex. In fact, Judaism does not consider sexual desires to be sinful. It considers them a part of basic carnal needs, just like hunger, thirst, etc.

Premarital sex is sexual immorality, fornication
Adultery is married people sleeping around
Unmarried do not get a free pass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone who is part of a Judeo-Christian religion and who claims religious support for a pro-life position should remember that Jewish law dictates that an unborn child is not a life. Life does not begin until birth. As such, Jewish law requires that, if the life of the mother is in danger, the fetus must be aborted. Jewish law does not condemn abortion in any way, shape, or form.

So, since Judaism is the original Judeo-Christian religion, pro-lifers need to contend with the reality that they have changed the law from what Judaism established. There is a strong argument to be made that abortion bans violate Jews’ religious freedom.

I think Islam says the exact same that Judaism does. Abortion is even required in Islam if a danger to the mothers life is presented, the existing life takes precedence over the unborn.

Christianity makes zero mention in the Bible about abortion. Challenge any pro lifers and they can’t find any explicit abortion bans in the Bible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because Evangelical and Catholic Christians tend to be the most strict when it comes to female reproductive health.

For example, a fetus does not have a soul until 120 days. And while some people consider abortion always a "sin," many Muslims consider abortion pre-120 days considerably more acceptable since it doesn't yet have a soul.

This.

Catholic extremists and Christian extremists tend to have the most restrictive beliefs on abortion. Yes, there are some conservative Muslims who will always consider abortion a sin. But it is pretty universally believed that a soul is not "breathed" into a fetus until 120 days, and the time before that has MUCH more wiggle room regarding termination. Islam also supports abortion at any point, if the pregnancy endangers the mother's health and life.

This SCOTUS decision is outrageous lawfully and ethically, to anyone I know who was raised (or is still practicing) Muslim. I am not practicing, but I was brought up in a faithful family. There were never any strong ideas presented regarding abortion. It was always assumed to be 1000% acceptable for rape, incest, and danger to the mother, and with discretion at other times. Essentially, it was between at woman and God.

Same.

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because Evangelical and Catholic Christians tend to be the most strict when it comes to female reproductive health.

For example, a fetus does not have a soul until 120 days. And while some people consider abortion always a "sin," many Muslims consider abortion pre-120 days considerably more acceptable since it doesn't yet have a soul.

This.

Catholic extremists and Christian extremists tend to have the most restrictive beliefs on abortion. Yes, there are some conservative Muslims who will always consider abortion a sin. But it is pretty universally believed that a soul is not "breathed" into a fetus until 120 days, and the time before that has MUCH more wiggle room regarding termination. Islam also supports abortion at any point, if the pregnancy endangers the mother's health and life.

This SCOTUS decision is outrageous lawfully and ethically, to anyone I know who was raised (or is still practicing) Muslim. I am not practicing, but I was brought up in a faithful family. There were never any strong ideas presented regarding abortion. It was always assumed to be 1000% acceptable for rape, incest, and danger to the mother, and with discretion at other times. Essentially, it was between at woman and God.

But behind closed doors, they get abortions, they use birth control and everything else that they say they don't want anyone else to have. Complete frauds and hypocrites.

I grew up in a Muslim family and abortion was never "hidden' or hush-hush. On the contrary, I know who in my family has had an abortion because we talk about these things openly. There is no "fraud" or "hypocrisy".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because Evangelical and Catholic Christians tend to be the most strict when it comes to female reproductive health.

For example, a fetus does not have a soul until 120 days. And while some people consider abortion always a "sin," many Muslims consider abortion pre-120 days considerably more acceptable since it doesn't yet have a soul.

This.

Catholic extremists and Christian extremists tend to have the most restrictive beliefs on abortion. Yes, there are some conservative Muslims who will always consider abortion a sin. But it is pretty universally believed that a soul is not "breathed" into a fetus until 120 days, and the time before that has MUCH more wiggle room regarding termination. Islam also supports abortion at any point, if the pregnancy endangers the mother's health and life.

This SCOTUS decision is outrageous lawfully and ethically, to anyone I know who was raised (or is still practicing) Muslim. I am not practicing, but I was brought up in a faithful family. There were never any strong ideas presented regarding abortion. It was always assumed to be 1000% acceptable for rape, incest, and danger to the mother, and with discretion at other times. Essentially, it was between at woman and God.

Your post is very troublesome because it uses religion to rationalize a nonreligious matter. Use reason and science and leave out your theology or dogma, please. But your support for women is appreciated.

?? the title of this thread is "abortion and religion".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:christianity is the third biggest threat to this country after climate change and republicans. I find them particularly reprehensible and disgusting.

Is it ok to find Muslims or Jewish folks completely reprehensible and disgusting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and when we’re on the topic of what Jewish law/the Torah says about these sorts of things, let’s establish one more thing: while the Torah describes marital sex as holy, it does not condemn premarital sex. In fact, Judaism does not consider sexual desires to be sinful. It considers them a part of basic carnal needs, just like hunger, thirst, etc.

Premarital sex is sexual immorality, fornication
Adultery is married people sleeping around
Unmarried do not get a free pass

WTF are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh and when we’re on the topic of what Jewish law/the Torah says about these sorts of things, let’s establish one more thing: while the Torah describes marital sex as holy, it does not condemn premarital sex. In fact, Judaism does not consider sexual desires to be sinful. It considers them a part of basic carnal needs, just like hunger, thirst, etc.

Premarital sex is sexual immorality, fornication
Adultery is married people sleeping around
Unmarried do not get a free pass

so sex is just for procreation?