PSAT results came out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What was up with Maryland's and DC's selectivity score of 224 for class of 2022? Neither have ever been that high.
Due to pandemic conditions in fall of 2020, most state scores stayed the same or went down.
My theory is that savvy and competitive students and parents in this area took advantage of the relaxed alternate score process and summitted high SAT scores from any time in junior year.
I don't think the 224 cut-off will be repeated this year.
Thoughts?

This is common knowledge (although both states are close to the highest cutoff each year anyway). But I view it through a less cynical lens. Most MD students didn't have the opportunity to take the PSAT since schools were closed almost all year, so their use of alternate entry wasn't to game the system but it was the only way to enter.

I am the op of this comment. I said nothing about gaming the system. I think more parents in the area were aware of the alternate route and thus their children were able to take full advantage of the opportunity. Thus skewing the scores in MD and DC. Not a cynical take at all.

DP here.

There was no skewing the scores at all because alternate route scores do not determine the cutoffs. The cutoffs are always determined using PSAT scores. So at best you are misinformed. In fact, MD cutoff for NMSF actually rose and is the highest in the country and thus became harder to get into.

https://www.compassprep.com/psat-national-merit-faq/

This is how it works - PSAT first takes the top 50K students globally to make them "Commended Scholars". This is the base. Then the have fixed quotas for each state depending on its size and they take fixed numbers of top scorers from that state (all of them higher or at the commended scholar scores) and that is how the cut off for each state is determined for NMSF. Total number of NMSF is around 16K.

The alternate route students are not even considered when setting up state cutoffs. NMSC only looks at the PSAT scores to determine the cutoffs.

If there was a global conspiracy and only less high achieving students took the PSAT and all brilliant students held back, then the cutoff would be very low. Then all the brilliant students could come via the alternate route and also get in. But why would a brilliant student want to hold back and let less brilliant student also get this honor? So as you see, there was no skewing of the PSAT scores.

On the other hand, contrary to the cynical person who had some cockamamie theory - PSAT cutoffs in MD only rose higher. Which means that more and more, highest achieving students are trying to differentiate themselves in a climate where standardized tests are going away. PSAT cut offs rose in MD, and all the alternate route students (obviously those who could score well on SAT and were willing to report their SAT scores to college) were successfully able to meet those high criteria.

I can bet if in future NMSF MD cutoff becomes 38, 38, 38...there will be enough kids who will meet this threshold too.

As for who benefited by the alternate route this year? Probably, it was the bright B+ student in MD who took the PSAT and got a spot because majority of top scorers only used the alternate route (which does not have a quota).

My kid's magnet school had 30+ students who actually remembered to register for the alternate route. Out of 250+ graduating seniors, around 80 scored 1570 and above. And many who scored 35 in ACT. These kids simply did not enter the NMSF but would have qualified hands down. So more kids missed the opportunity to enter into NMSF from our school. Also, these 30+ students did not take a spot from the MD quota, so the number of MD NMSF increased.

There are more super high performers than seats for MD NMSF.

You are misinformed. It was absolutley skewed:

"Did Alternate Entry break the NMSQT?
The junior year PSAT has also served as the National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test for more than 60 years. However, there has long been an exception for extenuating circumstances such as illness. For students who were sick on the day of the exam, NMSC allowed the substitution — pending an application by the school counselor and approval by NMSC — of an SAT score. Alternate Entry was uncommon and something of a rounding error. In fact, NMSC didn’t even need to use the entrants’ scores when calculating Semifinalist cutoffs. What if an entire country is ill, however? The pandemic forced NMSC to rewrite the rules for Alternate Entry. In California, for example, PSAT volume dropped by almost 90% because of COVID-19 restrictions. What would National Merit have meant if all of those students had been disqualified? In reaction, NMSC allowed students to self-apply and — so long as they met the application deadline and didn’t have a PSAT on file — be automatically approved. This change avoided disqualifying students who missed the PSAT, but now NMSC lacked PSAT scores from the majority of potential qualifiers in some states. The NMSQT was broken — at least for a bit — and SAT scores had to be incorporated into the calculation of cutoffs.

In most cases, the resulting cutoffs were at least within the historical norms. But then there was Maryland. All of the top NMSF-producing districts in the state had to cancel the PSAT/NMSQT. Most of the state’s Semifinalists qualified via the SAT, and this moved the cutoff to the highest ever recorded by any state. The students who were able to take the PSAT (about one-third of the usual volume) were at a disadvantage. The Alternate Entry system wasn’t designed for such a radical set of circumstances.[b]

The hope for the class of 2023 is that most states got back to something approaching normal this year. The 1.5 million test takers figure points to recovery. There could still be pockets, however, where Alternate Entry plays the role of spoiler. NMSC has been tight-lipped about how it will handle Alternate Entry applications and SAT scores in this years’ calculations. For now, we remain optimistic that the NMSQT was bowed but not permanently broken."

https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/

Next time do some research before you spot off your ignorant opinions

This, exactly. The number of MD kids taking the PSAT last year was not statistically valid to use on its own. They had to incoporate SAT scores from alternate entry and clearly it was an understandably skewed result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently College Board had glitch that made many kids birthdates a day earlier. If you click on can’t see my scores and try the Matching process to unlock them, you see your kids birthdate. No option to fix it online though.

Update - this may be what happens to block scores from being released when there is an investigation. College Board says our entire school is on hold pending an investigation. Hours of my life wasted trying to fix this.

Can you say what school? Because my MCPS junior can't get his and neither can a few of his friends.

WJ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The word “Aptitude” was dropped from the SAT name in 1993 to reflect that it is not an aptitude test.

Uff...so true.

"...What Does “SAT” Stand For?
Today, “SAT” has no meaning as an acronym. The SAT acronym originally stood for “Scholastic Aptitude Test” but as the test evolved the acronym’s meaning was dropped.

In 1997, the main test became known as the “SAT I: Reasoning Test” while the individual subject exams, known as “Achievement Tests”, became the “SAT II: Subject Tests.” The numbers were later eliminated, and the tests became known as the “SAT Reasoning Test” and “SAT Subject Tests”. The name simplified even further to just “SAT” when it was redesigned as an achievement test in 2016, though students will often still encounter all the different name variations...."

I guess people can pick whatever suits them . It can be a test of Aptitude, Reasoning or Achievement. I think "Reasoning" is a bit funny, because you cannot reason out the Algebra that you have not learned.

I feel the "aptitude" label was just fine the way it was. There are different types of aptitude, and there certainly is scholastic aptitude, of which basic language and math skills are fundamental regardless of which area of study a student intends to focus on. A person may not excel at scholastic aptitude but may have other aptitude types that make them successful in life. What colleges/universities are concerned with is the scholastic aptitude of the applicants. Some are also concerned with athletic aptitude, as another example. Refusing to call the "SAT" "scholastic aptitude test" is like refusing to call a tape measure a tape measure because it can't be used to measure temperature.

Then you don’t understand the true meanings of aptitude and achievement
Aptitude particularly has a very specific definition in testing and Ed psych.

I understand the plain English meaning of aptitude and achievement. What definition are you referring to? Care to share a link?

NP here. Do you truly not know the difference? Because even based on the "plain English meaning" the first poster is correct.
For our purposes-
innate cognitive abilities vs. information or skills a student has already learned.
Simple enough for you?
Pre 2016 the SAT billed itself as an aptitude test, since then as an achievement test. Very different measures although aptitude plays a signficant role in a student's achievement. It is unavoidable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an 11th grader and 9th grader.

My 11th grader had never taken the psat due to covid (and it wasn't offered at his pubic HS in grade 9). Other than announcing the test date, the school didn't send home any prep materials or suggest prepping at all, he didn't give it any thought. So he took it "cold."

My 9th grader took it this year at her private school. On a day before the test, the English teachers spent a little time going over the format of the test and some general test tips.

I have to speculate that my 9th grader will do better on the psat in grade 11, when it counts for National Merit, than the 11th grader just did (and I would think that many 11th graders were in the same boat of never having been exposed to the test before, which probably means raw scores on the whole were lower in grade 11 this year). And I am comparing a high performing public HS with a private, there would obviously be lots of other disparities between other high schools.

There's already evidence that scores were lower for 11th graders nationwide than in the past.

On the other hand, it seems to me that more and more kids are starting to take the SAT for the first time in Aug or Oct of their junior year, after prepping over the summer. So there's a decent number of kids who probably took their first PSAT after having already taken the SAT once, if not twice.

Not surprising but where did you read this evidence?

https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/

Toward the middle of the page it explains: "Only 3% of students scored at or above 1400 this year. That’s the lowest value we’ve seen — tied with an October 2019 PSAT that had an unusually difficult scale. Three things could produce that low of a figure: (1) the October 2021 exam also had a challenging scale or (2) student learning has been impaired during the pandemic and test performance reflects it or (3) a disproportionate number of high scorers were unable (or chose not) to test." He goes on to explain that the likely explanations are 1 or 2 since far more schools offered PSAT this year as compared to last year.

Interesting. My kid scored 1430 which per College Board was 99th percentile (in reading and math). Not sure how that correlates to 3% of students scoring above 1400.

I think that 99% is based on more than just 11th graders who took it this year. If you click on ? next to 99%, the College Board website says: "User group percentiles are based on all PSAT/NMSQT and PSAT 10 tests administered in the past three school years."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently College Board had glitch that made many kids birthdates a day earlier. If you click on can’t see my scores and try the Matching process to unlock them, you see your kids birthdate. No option to fix it online though.

Update - this may be what happens to block scores from being released when there is an investigation. College Board says our entire school is on hold pending an investigation. Hours of my life wasted trying to fix this.

Can you say what school? Because my MCPS junior can't get his and neither can a few of his friends.

WJ

We are RM. Also can't get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently College Board had glitch that made many kids birthdates a day earlier. If you click on can’t see my scores and try the Matching process to unlock them, you see your kids birthdate. No option to fix it online though.

Update - this may be what happens to block scores from being released when there is an investigation. College Board says our entire school is on hold pending an investigation. Hours of my life wasted trying to fix this.

Can you say what school? Because my MCPS junior can't get his and neither can a few of his friends.

WJ

We are RM. Also can't get in.

Interesting! Any other schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently College Board had glitch that made many kids birthdates a day earlier. If you click on can’t see my scores and try the Matching process to unlock them, you see your kids birthdate. No option to fix it online though.

Update - this may be what happens to block scores from being released when there is an investigation. College Board says our entire school is on hold pending an investigation. Hours of my life wasted trying to fix this.

Can you say what school? Because my MCPS junior can't get his and neither can a few of his friends.

WJ

We are RM. Also can't get in.

Interesting! Any other schools?

Blair, and we could get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently College Board had glitch that made many kids birthdates a day earlier. If you click on can’t see my scores and try the Matching process to unlock them, you see your kids birthdate. No option to fix it online though.

Update - this may be what happens to block scores from being released when there is an investigation. College Board says our entire school is on hold pending an investigation. Hours of my life wasted trying to fix this.

Can you say what school? Because my MCPS junior can't get his and neither can a few of his friends.

WJ

We are RM. Also can't get in.

Interesting! Any other schools?

Blair, and we could get in.

Is that a hacker joke?

[Anonymous]

I shared earlier that the College Board told me that my son didn't fill out his email address and that's why he couldn't get his scores, but my son just told me that he definitely filled all of that out. I think it was total BS and there's something else going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I shared earlier that the College Board told me that my son didn't fill out his email address and that's why he couldn't get his scores, but my son just told me that he definitely filled all of that out. I think it was total BS and there's something else going on. [/qu



One room of kids at my kids school (including my kid) cannot get their scores. All of their birthdates are one digit off. Rumor is that this is what College Board does when they are investigating cheating? School is still trying to figure out how to get the scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently College Board had glitch that made many kids birthdates a day earlier. If you click on can’t see my scores and try the Matching process to unlock them, you see your kids birthdate. No option to fix it online though.

Update - this may be what happens to block scores from being released when there is an investigation. College Board says our entire school is on hold pending an investigation. Hours of my life wasted trying to fix this.

Can you say what school? Because my MCPS junior can't get his and neither can a few of his friends.

WJ

We are RM. Also can't get in.

Interesting! Any other schools?

Blair, and we could get in.

Is that a hacker joke?

That's funny - but no. Definitely could get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feeling glum about sophomore DD scores-1160. GPA 3.89 UW at competitive private. I’d much rather the high GPA but still can’t help being disappointed. Just not a good test taker.

No. That’s the 89th percentile. Its top score is 1520, not 1600. The child is not a bad test taker.

My child was in the same percentile for a 10th grader: 1170, 89th percentile. I don't think that is a good score. It's not horrible, but it certainly doesn't mean the kid is a good test taker.

You heard it on DCUM first. 89th percentile is not horrible but not “good.”

This is why all our children have anxiety disorders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think one can really generalize about PSAT and ultimate SAT scores after prep. My DC got 1240 PSAT and a 1470 superscore after Junior year, which surprised his college counselor who assured me he could only improve SAT by 100 points or so over the PSAT.

Well, if you do not prep and get 1200 in PSAT in 10th grade, then without prepping, you will get 1300 in SAT in 11th grade. Your counselor is somewhat correct in this. Without any prep, PSAT predicts your SAT scores. And you get 100 points of improvement each year.

Yes, you can generalize. And yes, your kid probably studied for SAT and probably did not study for PSAT. A low score in PSAT can scare the sh1t off these kids and then they start working. Fear is a good motivator.

Argh, this is wrong!

The PSAT is scored out of 1520. So a 1200 on the PSAT in 10th grade is the equivalent of a 1350-1400 on the SAT, even without “improvement.” The denominators are different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feeling glum about sophomore DD scores-1160. GPA 3.89 UW at competitive private. I’d much rather the high GPA but still can’t help being disappointed. Just not a good test taker.

No. That’s the 89th percentile. Its top score is 1520, not 1600. The child is not a bad test taker.

My child was in the same percentile for a 10th grader: 1170, 89th percentile. I don't think that is a good score. It's not horrible, but it certainly doesn't mean the kid is a good test taker.

You heard it on DCUM first. 89th percentile is not horrible but not “good.”

This is why all our children have anxiety disorders.

Do you think an 1170 on the Psat indicates the kid is a good test taker? What would you think if someone posted that her kid got an 1170 and is clearly a good test taker?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently College Board had glitch that made many kids birthdates a day earlier. If you click on can’t see my scores and try the Matching process to unlock them, you see your kids birthdate. No option to fix it online though.

Update - this may be what happens to block scores from being released when there is an investigation. College Board says our entire school is on hold pending an investigation. Hours of my life wasted trying to fix this.

Can you say what school? Because my MCPS junior can't get his and neither can a few of his friends.

WJ

We are RM. Also can't get in.

Interesting! Any other schools?

Blair, and we could get in.

Must not be all students from the school. My RM kid saw the scores the other day.