The White Lotus season 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if Greg is trying to give Tanya the ultimate Monica Vitti fantasy via Quentin, not as part of a con to get her killed or blackmailed, or purely out if the goodness of his heart, but because he’s trying to be a “good husband” to try and convince her to rip up the prenup so that he can quit his job and feel comfortable in their marriage?

I feel like this would fit with how characters on the show largely act out of self interest, and the main way they hurt others is by being inept or oblivious to how their actions impact others.

If Greg had goodness in his heart, why was he so mean about the macaroons, which he didn't even apologize for once he was proven wrong, her weight and having her assistant there? He seems annoyed with her the entire time, didn't answer her texts and says I will be home soon, love you on the phone. I've been wondering who is that person and where is "home." Maybe Greg had been staying at the palazzo, not the hotel, leading up to Tanya's arrival and is referring to the palazzo as home at this point. If not, it's hard to square why, in a "goodness of his heart" scenario, Greg would have to be out of the picture, and the Italian arm candy guy in the picture, in order for Tanya to have her Italian fantasy. She wanted and included Greg in her Vespa fantasy.

That's what makes this show so good. There are so many little facts and curve balls thrown in that it doesn't allow for anyone to deduce with a feeling of certainty how these situations will play out.

But see, this is exactly why I'm starting to think that Greg might be just a middle of the road bad husband and not part of an international conspiracy to defraud his wife. Because I know lots of people would be mean to their spouse about something trivial, then not apologize when it was revealed they were wrong (because they never apologize), who don't respond to texts or give their spouse information about where they are. And they still have "good in their hearts" sometimes, or can be nice. Most people are neither heroes or villains -- they are flawed and broken. Some try harder than others, some are more successful when they try. I think Greg doesn't try that hard but might be willing put in some extra effort at doing something nice for his wife if he thought it might get her to say "let's get rid of the prenup." Self interest with a sprinkling of "I'm trying to be a good husband."

To me this makes more sense than the idea that Greg organized a plot to have Tanya first seduced by and then entrapped by Quentin and the gays. And I definitely don't think he's trying to get her killed, I think that's way too over the top. First off, if a wealthy American died on vacation and there was the whiff of foul play, that would be huge news and get a ton of attention and a lot of people would assume her significantly less wealthy husband who stands to inherit did it.

Excellent points. I could see this going down and Mike White being like Shame on you audience for thinking that Greg would try to have Tanya killed to take her money (despite the fact that Mike White is setting us up to assume exactly that).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just want to add: I love how Isabella is a foil for several of the plot lines. She represents traditional femininity. She doesn’t balk at the creepy overtures of Bert, Isabella or even Rocco. She seems okay and accepting of all of it, and everyone loves her. She’s the one character everyone loves and has no issues with. She’s different from Daphne because there is no ulterior motive vibe about her.

Maybe the ulterior motive for Isabella isn't as much as Daphine, but...she's nice to Valentina because V is Isabella's boss (and isabella wants Rocco back at the front desk). Rocco, she clearly.likes and they're engaged.

She might be more contrasting with Valentina's personality, which is abrasive in general, but especially with men, and manipulative. (I like Valentina, but she's a flawed person.)

Yes, manipulation of the very sweet feminine variety. Notice how she uses Valentina's own argument to try to get Rocco reinstated. She tells Valentina that Salvatore is talking too much and makes her feel uncomfortable.. the very pretext Valentina used to get rid of her rival Rocco.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who are the bodies?? There’s supposed to be at least three: the one in the sea, plus “a few” more.

Seems like Greg is a sure bet. If season 1 holds, then the less privileged will bite it. That would be some combination of the two girls, Jack and maybe Portia. Albie’s Stanford idealism also will be a casualty.

Ooh right, I forgot there were "bodies!" Okay def Greg, Portia, maybe Jack. But how do the other couples fit in with the Tanya plot??

I think the Di Grassi and the fourple are intertwined with Lucia and Mia, and that the Tanya-Greg-Portia thing stands on its own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who are the bodies?? There’s supposed to be at least three: the one in the sea, plus “a few” more.

Seems like Greg is a sure bet. If season 1 holds, then the less privileged will bite it. That would be some combination of the two girls, Jack and maybe Portia. Albie’s Stanford idealism also will be a casualty.

Ooh right, I forgot there were "bodies!" Okay def Greg, Portia, maybe Jack. But how do the other couples fit in with the Tanya plot??

I think the Di Grassi and the fourple are intertwined with Lucia and Mia, and that the Tanya-Greg-Portia thing stands on its own.

To add to the above, maybe still some overlap with Albie-Portia. But this is a LOT to resolve in one episode!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just want to add: I love how Isabella is a foil for several of the plot lines. She represents traditional femininity. She doesn’t balk at the creepy overtures of Bert, Isabella or even Rocco. She seems okay and accepting of all of it, and everyone loves her. She’s the one character everyone loves and has no issues with. She’s different from Daphne because there is no ulterior motive vibe about her.

Maybe the ulterior motive for Isabella isn't as much as Daphine, but...she's nice to Valentina because V is Isabella's boss (and isabella wants Rocco back at the front desk). Rocco, she clearly.likes and they're engaged.

She might be more contrasting with Valentina's personality, which is abrasive in general, but especially with men, and manipulative. (I like Valentina, but she's a flawed person.)

Agree Isabella isn't as guileless as PP describes. For instance, I don't think Salvatore is actually hitting on her and making her uncomfortable. I think she just finds him annoying and wants to go back to working with her boyfriend, so she tells Valentina that Salvatore is being inappropriate because she knows that's the easiest way to get him reassigned. We never see Salvatore being inappropriate, just loud and kind of obnoxious.

I think Isabella is not much different from anyone on the show -- she's self-interested and uses the tools at her disposal (in her case, a sweet personality and natural prettiness) to get what she wants. I don't say that as a criticism. She's similar to Mia, who is also very appealing and likable in this way. And interestingly, both Isabella and Mia manipulate/use Valentina's attraction to them to get what they want (Mia a job playing piano, Isabella to work with Rocco again) to varying degrees of success. I like this because it keeps the show from being some trite commentary on men versus women and how men are one way and woman are another. Instead the focus is on attraction and who has the power. Mia and Isabella both intuit that they have some power over Valentina due to her attraction to them, even though Valentina is formally in a more powerful position. This mirrors how Daphne works to get what she wants from Cameron, or how Lucia works to get what she wants out of Albie and Dom. Even how Quentin and Jack work to get what they want out of Tanya and Portia. There are many ways that people can use people's vulnerabilities against them and it doesn't always break down easily along lines like gender or class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if Greg is trying to give Tanya the ultimate Monica Vitti fantasy via Quentin, not as part of a con to get her killed or blackmailed, or purely out if the goodness of his heart, but because he’s trying to be a “good husband” to try and convince her to rip up the prenup so that he can quit his job and feel comfortable in their marriage?

I feel like this would fit with how characters on the show largely act out of self interest, and the main way they hurt others is by being inept or oblivious to how their actions impact others.

If Greg had goodness in his heart, why was he so mean about the macaroons, which he didn't even apologize for once he was proven wrong, her weight and having her assistant there? He seems annoyed with her the entire time, didn't answer her texts and says I will be home soon, love you on the phone. I've been wondering who is that person and where is "home." Maybe Greg had been staying at the palazzo, not the hotel, leading up to Tanya's arrival and is referring to the palazzo as home at this point. If not, it's hard to square why, in a "goodness of his heart" scenario, Greg would have to be out of the picture, and the Italian arm candy guy in the picture, in order for Tanya to have her Italian fantasy. She wanted and included Greg in her Vespa fantasy.

That's what makes this show so good. There are so many little facts and curve balls thrown in that it doesn't allow for anyone to deduce with a feeling of certainty how these situations will play out.

But see, this is exactly why I'm starting to think that Greg might be just a middle of the road bad husband and not part of an international conspiracy to defraud his wife. Because I know lots of people would be mean to their spouse about something trivial, then not apologize when it was revealed they were wrong (because they never apologize), who don't respond to texts or give their spouse information about where they are. And they still have "good in their hearts" sometimes, or can be nice. Most people are neither heroes or villains -- they are flawed and broken. Some try harder than others, some are more successful when they try. I think Greg doesn't try that hard but might be willing put in some extra effort at doing something nice for his wife if he thought it might get her to say "let's get rid of the prenup." Self interest with a sprinkling of "I'm trying to be a good husband."

To me this makes more sense than the idea that Greg organized a plot to have Tanya first seduced by and then entrapped by Quentin and the gays. And I definitely don't think he's trying to get her killed, I think that's way too over the top. First off, if a wealthy American died on vacation and there was the whiff of foul play, that would be huge news and get a ton of attention and a lot of people would assume her significantly less wealthy husband who stands to inherit did it.

Excellent points. I could see this going down and Mike White being like Shame on you audience for thinking that Greg would try to have Tanya killed to take her money (despite the fact that Mike White is setting us up to assume exactly that).

Okay, but how would it just be coincidence that Greg is a long time friend of Quentin?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if Greg is trying to give Tanya the ultimate Monica Vitti fantasy via Quentin, not as part of a con to get her killed or blackmailed, or purely out if the goodness of his heart, but because he’s trying to be a “good husband” to try and convince her to rip up the prenup so that he can quit his job and feel comfortable in their marriage?

I feel like this would fit with how characters on the show largely act out of self interest, and the main way they hurt others is by being inept or oblivious to how their actions impact others.

If Greg had goodness in his heart, why was he so mean about the macaroons, which he didn't even apologize for once he was proven wrong, her weight and having her assistant there? He seems annoyed with her the entire time, didn't answer her texts and says I will be home soon, love you on the phone. I've been wondering who is that person and where is "home." Maybe Greg had been staying at the palazzo, not the hotel, leading up to Tanya's arrival and is referring to the palazzo as home at this point. If not, it's hard to square why, in a "goodness of his heart" scenario, Greg would have to be out of the picture, and the Italian arm candy guy in the picture, in order for Tanya to have her Italian fantasy. She wanted and included Greg in her Vespa fantasy.

That's what makes this show so good. There are so many little facts and curve balls thrown in that it doesn't allow for anyone to deduce with a feeling of certainty how these situations will play out.

But see, this is exactly why I'm starting to think that Greg might be just a middle of the road bad husband and not part of an international conspiracy to defraud his wife. Because I know lots of people would be mean to their spouse about something trivial, then not apologize when it was revealed they were wrong (because they never apologize), who don't respond to texts or give their spouse information about where they are. And they still have "good in their hearts" sometimes, or can be nice. Most people are neither heroes or villains -- they are flawed and broken. Some try harder than others, some are more successful when they try. I think Greg doesn't try that hard but might be willing put in some extra effort at doing something nice for his wife if he thought it might get her to say "let's get rid of the prenup." Self interest with a sprinkling of "I'm trying to be a good husband."

To me this makes more sense than the idea that Greg organized a plot to have Tanya first seduced by and then entrapped by Quentin and the gays. And I definitely don't think he's trying to get her killed, I think that's way too over the top. First off, if a wealthy American died on vacation and there was the whiff of foul play, that would be huge news and get a ton of attention and a lot of people would assume her significantly less wealthy husband who stands to inherit did it.

Excellent points. I could see this going down and Mike White being like Shame on you audience for thinking that Greg would try to have Tanya killed to take her money (despite the fact that Mike White is setting us up to assume exactly that).

Okay, but how would it just be coincidence that Greg is a long time friend of Quentin?

It's obviously not a coincidence. It can't be, especially because Quentin even tells Tanya the story about his unrequited cowboy love. It seems obvious that Quentin targeted Tanya from the jump, even just in his behavior at the hotel -- paying so much attention to her in the dining room and bar, flagging her down in the lobby to compliment her clothes, etc. Quentin zeroed in on Tanya quickly and given his background with Greg, that can't be a coincidence.

But people are taking that and combining it with the fact that we know people died, and assuming Quentin is trying to kill or blackmail Tanya. But what if Greg set Tanya up with Quentin not to harm her but because he was just like "well my wife seems pretty unhappy with me and I'm bad at this whole Italian Dream thing she wants, maybe my friend Quentin and his buddies, who are great with older wealthy women with low self-esteem, can cheer her up and give her a sort of magical Italian vacation in my absence." And then maybe some quid pro quo maybe mixed in with it, like "show her a good time and then ask if she'll help you with the money for your villa -- she's kind of dumb and will be grateful so she'll probably give it to you."

I just don't see the whole thing with Greg-Quentin as a straightforward nefarious set up to kill or blackmail Tanya because I don't think it's in keeping with how the show thinks about characters. Again, there aren't true villains. And people generally think of themselves in a positive way -- everyone is always lying to themselves that they are being kind or generous or thoughtful, even when they are being selfish or manipulative. I would be surprised if that changes for Greg and Quentin. They must have a way of justifying this behavior to themselves.

[Anonymous]

NYTimes has an article with the costumer for the show:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/10/style/white-lotus-costumes-portia.html?unlocked_article_code=_dFeHglENRuJwGQ6B_7zgy7645-S6P3UorPeEQX6HXx8K41o5MvpAAP8a7yxmzULY5IexiO8Qdy6RZtLW--SJsGMxOpxFKfYYl_nuPrmxYwUZI4lJ4q0eJVyfOl67-jnm94_QjS1Cowt8UyBT_TdubrF_QGxNvUzLPAjS9luPc45ExcefD0Dy0H4xnkyn5Zv_8TJs-asnHU9CFJ4gkn99h6hjQZ1Uj-2lMGSj-Y4P8vMXSg1jm2aAdoMVvpBuR96UgSLxguRZcv78K3h6RNZgAKegICYF7XLm-7UnJOxLYsvUnhTIVVnzcEA3cNkzA0WwuAoX0DK0JS_DVAf_6VSUY-e2g&smid=share-url

[Anonymous]

Greg is in cahoots with Quentin to do away with Tanya. They have a pre-nup so Greg can't get her money if they divorce, but if she dies, maybe falling off a boat or a cliff, he gets her estate and shares some of it with Quentin, for doing away with Tanya. Daphne and Cameron go out their merry business, never noticing the damage they do. Ethan and Albie switch agree to switch identities permanently, each preferring the other's role in life. Harper knows, but doesn't care. Dom is suspicious and knows something is off, but can't put his finger on it. Valentina watches it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Ethan is actually gay and has feelings for Cameron, but he loves Harper although he’s not physically attracted to her.

I agree and said as much 30 or so pages back.

I just started watching the series and reading this thread. In the early episodes I felt that Ethan was irritated about Cameron’s flirting because he was jealous. He was uncomfortable with Cameron’s partying with hookers because he’s actually attracted to him. I think it will be revealed that Ethan and Cameron once had a fling back when they were college buddies. There was a “being inside you”
comment that Cam jokingly made to Ethan but maybe it wasn’t a joke.

Ethan tried to date girls but Cam stole all of them. Cam calls Ethan the original incel. I think Ethan had a lot of rage around women and sex. He probably married Harper because it put little pressure on him to be affectionate, since she’s so stiff. He literally runs away to avoid intimacy. I think it comes crashing to a head when he’s confronted with these issues directly.

I think Ethan had a lot of unresolved rage at Cam because Cam is a psychopath who wants whatever isn't his. Imagine being friends with that. Imagine having that as your roomate. Cam scams people financially too. We all need a reminder that Cam isn't just a sex addict, he's a con man who is comfortable taking other's money.

[Anonymous]

Wasn’t Greg caught on the cell phone saying “I love you” and “She doesn’t suspect a thing”? I thought Tonya heard him say that when she saw him on the balcony talking? Suggest his trip “back home” was all a ruse.

Why would Cam hookup with Harper (a woman he finds sort of ugly) if his entire long-con motive for the trip was to latch onto Ethan’s $ via investment? He’s going to torpedo the friendship and a once in a lifetime sum of money for a one-off hookup with his buddy’s mediocre looking wife? I don’t see it. Cam even tells Ethan it’s wiser to screw prostitutes because non-prostitute flings are nothing but drama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Ethan is actually gay and has feelings for Cameron, but he loves Harper although he’s not physically attracted to her.

I agree and said as much 30 or so pages back.

I just started watching the series and reading this thread. In the early episodes I felt that Ethan was irritated about Cameron’s flirting because he was jealous. He was uncomfortable with Cameron’s partying with hookers because he’s actually attracted to him. I think it will be revealed that Ethan and Cameron once had a fling back when they were college buddies. There was a “being inside you”
comment that Cam jokingly made to Ethan but maybe it wasn’t a joke.

Ethan tried to date girls but Cam stole all of them. Cam calls Ethan the original incel. I think Ethan had a lot of rage around women and sex. He probably married Harper because it put little pressure on him to be affectionate, since she’s so stiff. He literally runs away to avoid intimacy. I think it comes crashing to a head when he’s confronted with these issues directly.

I think Ethan had a lot of unresolved rage at Cam because Cam is a psychopath who wants whatever isn't his. Imagine being friends with that. Imagine having that as your roomate. Cam scams people financially too. We all need a reminder that Cam isn't just a sex addict, he's a con man who is comfortable taking other's money.

Yeah, I don’t even buy these two couples being friends. Cam basically immediately says he’s a criminal con man who wanted to risk prison to insider trade and wants to manage Ethan’s hundreds of millions (?). Plus all the cheating. In real life Ethan and Harper would have stopped hanging with them and done their own thing the rest of the vacation. They’re filthy rich, they could switch hotels or fly to France or Greece. Whatever. They wouldn’t be lost puppies handcuffed to these two sleazebags.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wasn’t Greg caught on the cell phone saying “I love you” and “She doesn’t suspect a thing”? I thought Tonya heard him say that when she saw him on the balcony talking? Suggest his trip “back home” was all a ruse.

Why would Cam hookup with Harper (a woman he finds sort of ugly) if his entire long-con motive for the trip was to latch onto Ethan’s $ via investment? He’s going to torpedo the friendship and a once in a lifetime sum of money for a one-off hookup with his buddy’s mediocre looking wife? I don’t see it. Cam even tells Ethan it’s wiser to screw prostitutes because non-prostitute flings are nothing but drama.

Cameron would do it to one up Ethan/prove he could, because he would probably sleep with anyone willing, and bc he’s desperate and generally out of control. Who says he finds Harper unattractive? For a guy like Cameron, any objectively attractive and intelligent women not being attracted to him would just make him want her more. Especially with whatever self worth issues he already has.

What’s more questionable is why Harper would flirt with or hook up with Cameron. I doubt she did- seems likely ethan is just imagining it and it’s enraging him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just want to add: I love how Isabella is a foil for several of the plot lines. She represents traditional femininity. She doesn’t balk at the creepy overtures of Bert, Isabella or even Rocco. She seems okay and accepting of all of it, and everyone loves her. She’s the one character everyone loves and has no issues with. She’s different from Daphne because there is no ulterior motive vibe about her.

This is so on point - kind of makes me sad.

She balked at baldy Bert.
She also complimented the manager on managing the leering men well. Which kicked off another issue…her female boss trying to date her.

I don’t feel sad, Isabella’s doing healthy and well— hope that continues

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wasn’t Greg caught on the cell phone saying “I love you” and “She doesn’t suspect a thing”? I thought Tonya heard him say that when she saw him on the balcony talking? Suggest his trip “back home” was all a ruse.

Why would Cam hookup with Harper (a woman he finds sort of ugly) if his entire long-con motive for the trip was to latch onto Ethan’s $ via investment? He’s going to torpedo the friendship and a once in a lifetime sum of money for a one-off hookup with his buddy’s mediocre looking wife? I don’t see it. Cam even tells Ethan it’s wiser to screw prostitutes because non-prostitute flings are nothing but drama.

Cameron would do it to one up Ethan/prove he could, because he would probably sleep with anyone willing, and bc he’s desperate and generally out of control. Who says he finds Harper unattractive? For a guy like Cameron, any objectively attractive and intelligent women not being attracted to him would just make him want her more. Especially with whatever self worth issues he already has.

What’s more questionable is why Harper would flirt with or hook up with Cameron. I doubt she did- seems likely ethan is just imagining it and it’s enraging him.

He basically immediately tells his wife I bet he regrets being married to her. That was obviously a dig at both her personality and average appearance.