Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this day and age using a midwife why?

Oh o guess the dumb Bible thumping crowd not liking science

Being a parent means doing the best even in childbirth that means a hospital

There's variety in midwifery care. Both of my DDs were delivered by CNMs (Certified Nurse Midwives) in a hospital. I had to be induced, and I received epidurals both times. Prenatal and postnatal care was attentive, excellent, and evidence-based.

Delivery by CNMs in a hospital setting is best of both worlds, in my experience.

People need to understand that there is a tremendous difference between a CNM (tons of training) and a CPM (basically an apprenticeship). Karen Carr is a CPM.
Never ever hire a CPM.

+1 from the PP who linked to the (most recent) Post article, and who saw CNMs for all three pregnancies/L&D.

Also: I am livid with Maryland for deciding to "license" CPMs. I remember voting against this proposal when it was on the ballot and unfortunately, it passed. That Karen Carr can continue to legally practice in this state is unconscionable.

[Anonymous]

Unbelievable that this woman is still allowed ti practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable that this woman is still allowed ti practice.

Unbelievable that any pregnant woman would want her within a 100 feet radius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unbelievable that this woman is still allowed ti practice.

Unbelievable that any pregnant woman would want her within a 100 feet radius.

One of the points of the article is that the couple they profiled couldn't find any information about her record.

[Anonymous]

Let me ask you this. If this was you, and you were the midwife. Would you continue to practice as you were, after babies had died on your watch? Really ask yourself this question. if you had been charged with manslaughter? negligence? Watched the pain dawn on the parent's faces as the realization began to dawn in your mind that perhaps--just perhaps there was something you might have done or not done that contributed to that death and suffering?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP. When I saw the story on the WaPo website (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2023/home-birth-midwife-karen-carr/) right now, I remembered this thread and wondered if the midwife in today's story was the same as the one I'd read about on DCUM so many years ago, when I was pregnant with my midwife-delievered VBAC baby. I'm shocked that yet another baby has died, but in a way I'm relieved to know that there's only one notoriously dangerous midwife in our area. Maybe now something will be done.

My heart goes out to this family.

If you think that there is only one dangerous midwife in our area, you are sorely mistaken. There are CNMs in this area who are just as narcissistic and egomaniacal as Karen Carr. If you want to search you can find some cases in the DC Superior Court records - and those are just the instances of poor outcomes where the women filed suit, not the ones where women had bad outcomes and advocated against the negligence or mistreatment they experienced in other ways.

I’m not anti midwife. There are also some who are truly fantastic. But I could list off, by name, several CNMs in the DMV that I had care from personally who suffer from the same hubris as Carr did.

There was a great comment on the article by a retired OB or L and D nurse that said something to the effect of, there are women in this profession who really enjoy having power over other women, and it is so true. It’s not true of every provider, but it’s definitely true of some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me ask you this. If this was you, and you were the midwife. Would you continue to practice as you were, after babies had died on your watch? Really ask yourself this question. if you had been charged with manslaughter? negligence? Watched the pain dawn on the parent's faces as the realization began to dawn in your mind that perhaps--just perhaps there was something you might have done or not done that contributed to that death and suffering?

But this is the thing. They are so wrapped up in their own ego, that they don’t actually think it’s their own fault. They believe in the power of birth so much that they refuse to acknowledge the danger inherent in it. If a woman has a bad outcome, they blame her. That is what they talk about when they say women need to take responsibility for their choices, which is a phrase they trot out anytime something bad happens. What is crazy too, is that they only acknowledge the danger and risk on the back end, but never to a prospective patient - then it’s all about empowerment, trusting your body, Mother Nature, your body being built to do this etc. They talk about shared decision making, but what they mean by that is if something bad happens they will say it’s the mom’s fault, it had nothing to do with them, they counseled mom otherwise but she was hell bent on a home delivery, and sometimes you just have a bad outcome, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me ask you this. If this was you, and you were the midwife. Would you continue to practice as you were, after babies had died on your watch? Really ask yourself this question. if you had been charged with manslaughter? negligence? Watched the pain dawn on the parent's faces as the realization began to dawn in your mind that perhaps--just perhaps there was something you might have done or not done that contributed to that death and suffering?

I think the woman is mentally ill.

[Anonymous]

The most horrifying part was what happened to the Amish twin baby. What kind of parent would refuse help for a defenseless newborn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The most horrifying part was what happened to the Amish twin baby. What kind of parent would refuse help for a defenseless newborn?

Agreed, the parents should be put in jail.

[Anonymous]

This article is horrifying but 50% of the blame also rests on the parents who choose home birth. That poor guy in the article who just went along with his wife choosing to deliver her *breach son* at home! She is mentally ill too. This woman wouldn’t have a job if more women actually looked at the risks. And no “a doctor misdiagnosed my thyroid issue 8 years ago so I don’t trust the medical establishment” is not even 1/8 of a reason for home birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me ask you this. If this was you, and you were the midwife. Would you continue to practice as you were, after babies had died on your watch? Really ask yourself this question. if you had been charged with manslaughter? negligence? Watched the pain dawn on the parent's faces as the realization began to dawn in your mind that perhaps--just perhaps there was something you might have done or not done that contributed to that death and suffering?

At the time of the Timmerman ordeal, there was an article that touched on this, and part of her defense of her actions was essentially that sometimes babies die. As another PP said, she really doesn't believe it's her fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:!!!! This is awful. Would love more details.

Why is it awful if it is illegal?

Because women have a right to choose whatever care provider they want. They have a right to choose anyone or a right to choose no one. Should they choose someone to tend to their homebirth they should not have to worry that the provider will hesitate to transfer if necessary due to being afraid of prosecution.

blah blah blah Would you put your kid in an unlicensed pre-school? The lady knew she was not following the law. A women’s “right” does not supersede the law. I would love to be on that jury.

Millions of people do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In this day and age using a midwife why?

Oh o guess the dumb Bible thumping crowd not liking science

Being a parent means doing the best even in childbirth that means a hospital

My atheist lesbian neighbors used midwives for both births. Mom 1 is SAH, but Mom 2 is a scientist for the federal government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let me ask you this. If this was you, and you were the midwife. Would you continue to practice as you were, after babies had died on your watch? Really ask yourself this question. if you had been charged with manslaughter? negligence? Watched the pain dawn on the parent's faces as the realization began to dawn in your mind that perhaps--just perhaps there was something you might have done or not done that contributed to that death and suffering?

And she has done this not once, but THREE times. She’s not a high risk OB with patients who know they’re probably going to lose their baby, she’s allegedly delivering healthy term infants.

I opened that article and thought, “THE Karen Carr who killed a baby by consenting to do a primipara home birth on a breech?! She’s still “practicing”?” Yup. I was planning to have a home birth baby back in 2010, but he was breech. My homebirth midwife was thankfully scared enough to transfer my care to an OB, but she didn’t say *why* she wanted to transfer me (Karen Carr’s sick outcome). Based on info about my specific situation, thank god she did transfer me because my baby would likely also have died (it was dicey even in the NICU) and me and my uterus might not have made it either.

(For those first time expectant mothers who are scared out of their minds about hospitals and losing control or medical rape or whatever is your specific fear: I had a c-section at VHC and I hated it (fear of needles and blood and surgery) but my kid survived. I VBAC’d twice at GW and I have three healthy, living children. Fear of the enormity of birth and all the terrible stories you’ve heard, maybe not feeling fully bonded to your baby and everything seeming kind of filmy and only maybe is NORMAL. Find a good therapist and have your baby in the hospital. Keep yourself healthy and feel your feelings. You can do this.)