Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the respiratory distress, many 'normal' babies have respiratory distress. Per the NRP (neonatal resusication something) guidelines, a baby just has to be observed for x amount of time (can't come up with it off the top of my head) if certain conditions exist (i.e. HR <100, Color is blue, etc). Once that time has passed, the infant doesn't require close observation.

I don't know whether she followed the guidelines or not, but neither does the poster who thinks she's a doctor.

P.S. I havenn't practiced L and D for a while, so that's why I don't remember NRP step by step. But ya'll can google it.

Excuse me, but your post is scaring me. A baby with a heart rate less than 100 is BRADYCARDIC, and probably HYPOXIC as well.
Depending on the situation, the baby would need progressive interventions: stimulation, and oxygen for starters.
If the baby is depressed due to a traumatic delivery, he may well "pink-up" after stimulation, and oxygen.
But if you knew anything about newborns, you would know they can decompensate in the blink of an eye. Hypoxia at birth places them at risk for persistent pulmonary hypertension, a deadly condition where blood is shunted away from the lungs.
Best not to comment if you don't know what you are talking about.

Sigh, of course they would need those interventions. My point if hey pinked up after the intervntions were implemented, they need close observation versus a trip to the NICU. Or do you wnt me to write down each step of NRP word for word?


Pulmonary HTN? Honestly, you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about.l A google search on WebMD versus real life experience doesn't compare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for the respiratory distress, many 'normal' babies have respiratory distress. Per the NRP (neonatal resusication something) guidelines, a baby just has to be observed for x amount of time (can't come up with it off the top of my head) if certain conditions exist (i.e. HR <100, Color is blue, etc). Once that time has passed, the infant doesn't require close observation.

I don't know whether she followed the guidelines or not, but neither does the poster who thinks she's a doctor.

P.S. I havenn't practiced L and D for a while, so that's why I don't remember NRP step by step. But ya'll can google it.

Excuse me, but your post is scaring me. A baby with a heart rate less than 100 is BRADYCARDIC, and probably HYPOXIC as well.
Depending on the situation, the baby would need progressive interventions: stimulation, and oxygen for starters.
If the baby is depressed due to a traumatic delivery, he may well "pink-up" after stimulation, and oxygen.
But if you knew anything about newborns, you would know they can decompensate in the blink of an eye. Hypoxia at birth places them at risk for persistent pulmonary hypertension, a deadly condition where blood is shunted away from the lungs.
Best not to comment if you don't know what you are talking about.

Sigh, of course they would need those interventions. My point if hey pinked up after the intervntions were implemented, they need close observation versus a trip to the NICU. Or do you wnt me to write down each step of NRP word for word?


Pulmonary HTN? Honestly, you're the one who doesn't know what they're talking about.l A google search on WebMD versus real life experience doesn't compare.

You are scaring me again! Sorry to burst your little bubble, but my information is based on real life experience in a Level 3 NICU--where is your experience from?

[Anonymous]

Cease and desist order for Karen Carr from MD Board of Physicians:

http://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/carr05.251.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cease and desist order for Karen Carr from MD Board of Physicians:

http://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/carr05.251.pdf

So sad that Twin 2 died.

[Anonymous]

Cease and desist order for Karen Carr from MD Board of Physicians:

http://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/carr05.251.pdf

While I am not a Carr fan in anyway, I don't understand the legalities of this. The MB Board of Physicians does not license anyone other than MDs and CNMs. Carr has never claimed to be in either category. How does their cease and desist order have any relevance?

How is it within the scope of the MD Board of Physicians to claim that anything having to do with pre-natal or post partum care is now practicing medicine? I can see the act of prescribing medications or performing and invasive surgical procedure as being within the bounds of practicing medicine but the rest is pretty broad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Cease and desist order for Karen Carr from MD Board of Physicians:

http://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/carr05.251.pdf

While I am not a Carr fan in anyway, I don't understand the legalities of this. The MB Board of Physicians does not license anyone other than MDs and CNMs. Carr has never claimed to be in either category. How does their cease and desist order have any relevance?

How is it within the scope of the MD Board of Physicians to claim that anything having to do with pre-natal or post partum care is now practicing medicine? I can see the act of prescribing medications or performing and invasive surgical procedure as being within the bounds of practicing medicine but the rest is pretty broad.

Read the order. State law is what defines "the practice of medicine." I guess that's why it's a cease and desist order rather than a revocation action against a licensed practitioner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cease and desist order for Karen Carr from MD Board of Physicians:

http://www.mbp.state.md.us/BPQAPP/orders/carr05.251.pdf

So sad that Twin 2 died.

I am so mad that she fed a baby who demonstrated respiratory distress with a medicine dropper. The baby probably already had meconium aspiration pneumonia. Her actions would have been considered malpractice if she were a licensed professional. I wonder if the parents understood what was going on. I hope she is forced to close her practice.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if she will request a hearing. She has 30 days to do so.

[Anonymous]

So putting together the information from the Maryland and DC cease and desist orders, she had 2 deaths and 1 serious morbidity in September, October, and November of 2010, and she delivered 8-10 babies per month.

[Anonymous]

I am really shocked at how the parents of the twins must have been under the sway of Karen Carr.

Your child needed 20 minutes of chest compressions after birth to start breathing, is described as being "pale" and "limp like a dishrag" and making "grunting noises" and you still don't tell the midwife to F off and run like mad to the closest NICU?

Why on earth did Karen Carr not get that child at least checked out? Its just gross, gross negligence.

To me, the only thing that explains that is either incredibly poor judgment or falling subject to the cult of personality of a particular individual (though I guess the second is part and parcel of the first).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So putting together the information from the Maryland and DC cease and desist orders, she had 2 deaths and 1 serious morbidity in September, October, and November of 2010, and she delivered 8-10 babies per month.

and it doesn't strike you as significant how close together these fatalities were? Coincidence or was she greedy and didn't care about the outcome? Maybe because things had gone well before she felt invincible. Sadly, newborns are not. Her sending the EMTs away was a gross mistake that should cost her. Any baby regardless of where it is born should be evaluated further if it needed to be rescucitated at birth!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am really shocked at how the parents of the twins must have been under the sway of Karen Carr.

Your child needed 20 minutes of chest compressions after birth to start breathing, is described as being "pale" and "limp like a dishrag" and making "grunting noises" and you still don't tell the midwife to F off and run like mad to the closest NICU?

Why on earth did Karen Carr not get that child at least checked out? Its just gross, gross negligence.

To me, the only thing that explains that is either incredibly poor judgment or falling subject to the cult of personality of a particular individual (though I guess the second is part and parcel of the first).

Yes, there is no way for us to know how Ms. Carr presented herself to the parents. Perhaps she said something like "I've taken care of _ # of babies with similar symptoms and they all did fine. I know what I'm doing. " or words to that effect.

[Anonymous]

"Targeting" is some BS. Pretending that this is a "right to choose" issue is even stupider.

The reason Carr was charged was because she agreed to deliver a high risk breech birth to a 43 year old woman. She left the child stuck in the birth canal for 20 minutes and failed to call 911 for 13 minutes after she was unable to revive him, thus not seeking help in time. These are the facts as the news media explains them.

You can choose whoever you want to be present but if you want to pay someone for a medical service, they need to be licensed to perform that service in the jurisdiction that they're working in, same with many other fields.

[Anonymous]

I think you all should leave the medical facts up to the coroner, because the news is probably getting it wrong. There is more than one person at fault here, sending
the ambulance away was negligent, however it was also the EMT's responsibility to make sure that baby was OK and to transport if necesesary. I am not sure why the debate between homebirths and hospital births is so viotile.. I gave birth in a hospital but did not have a "hospital birth". I labored in a shower with no IV and periodic fetal monitoring, no meds or epidural or interventions and spent most of my time walking around, only hopping in bed to actually give birth. It is possible but women have to speak up and say keep that IV out of me and get me out of this bed! My doctors were very open to this. I was grateful to be in the hospital when my son went into distress and was diagnosed with 4 heart defects. Respiratory distress and other signs are often not recognized both in a hospital or out of one (10% of babies with CHD go undiagnosed by providers)..if you think she is the only provider making mistakes that is niave, babies get killed in hospitals by medical errors, wrong doses, or neglect of symptoms...it's not a who's right and a who's wrong..it's how do you provide better communication and minimize errors..I guess it's OK to kill a baby as long as you have a liscense to do so..it seems some in this forum is of the opinion that if she had a license none of this would have happened?

[Anonymous]

What I am having a hard time understanding is why was she turned in. What kind of women seeks out a midwife to perform a high risk delivery, after being turned away many times, and then doesn't have the decency to conceal her identity when things go wrong. She knew the risk from the beginning. I understand that she is greiving but you also had to know that she was operating under the radar.

So now other women that want a real non-intrusive old school midwife have even fewer options and have to either decide to go unassisted or pick some medwife that is bond more by her standard of care than the situation in front of her.