Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

Dr. Grande explores narcissism and analyzes current events from that perspective:

Dr. Grande's analysis of Stockton Rush (Richard Stockton Rush III) the CEO of OceanGate. He was the descendent of two individuals who signed the Declaration of Independence.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

The only person whose arm was possibly twisted was the 19yo.

His arm wasn’t twisted, he chose to ride the amusement ride because Daddy wanted company.

How do you know his at wasn't twisted or that he wanted to go? Lots of kids and teens do things in an attempt to please their parents and vice versa

He made the decision to go, if he really really didn’t want to go he should have put up a fight, kicking and screaming. He willingly signed the waiver and went, he probably had reservations and fear, but he is as accountable as any other passenger. He wasn’t a child. No one wants to take any personal responsibility at all. They knew the risks. It’s sad, but crap happens. Trying to justify this by suing and having 6 generations set for life is repulsive.

It’s like you’re completely unaware that dysfunctional relationships between fathers and sons exist. You have no idea if he was a controlling, abusive, or dominating father or a loving, accepting, and gentle one. For all you know, he could have teased him and called him names when he expressed fear. He could have threatened to stop supporting him.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Didn’t they operate where the Titanuc is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think of James Cameron speaking about this? Is he an exert because he filmed the movie Titanic?

James Cameron has been active in the deep sea exploration community since well before he filmed Titanic - he made the movie to finance his submersible exploration obsession. He’s been down to Titanic 33 times, and down to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, the deepest place in the world’s oceans. He has designed and built submersibles so he has extensive expertise regarding the engineering and physics involved and has put his own life on the line in pursuit of this passion.

So, yes.

Agree. He's not just a random celebrity opining on this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The more I hear about this submersible the more it seems very clear to me that Stockton Rush was either a conman or a madman, and he very obviously misled his passengers as to the safety of the design and fabrication of the Titan - liability waiver be damned. He told one potential passenger who ultimately decided not to go that it was ‘as safe as crossing the street.’

The irony of this event is nearly as crushing as the psi endured by that submersible, and it pains to see how little man progresses.

1000% agree.

I'm going with madman. A conman wouldn't risk himself if he truly understood the thing to be a deathtrap. That's the craziest part to me. He knew it wasn't safe and got in the thing himself.

I definitely think we are dealing with a grandiose narcissist- possible psychopathic tendencies, so madman would check out. Even with the waivers, I do believe he misled his “customers” and gave them a false sense of security. The thing is, we have all been accustomed to signing waivers for everything these days- they are required for many kids birthday parties involving potential injury. But Rush knew he had been questioned by experts about the safety of this submersible and he quickly shut it down. He told his customers this thing was safe and cavalierly compared this excursion to not getting out of bed or not crossing the street when they were completely different things. Yes, everything in life has a degree of risk and we all take those risks, but this was a death trap that was misrepresented as some state of the art technology. I do think if any of these customers had the information that we all do now thanks to the investigation of the media, some may have made different choices. I blame the 19 year old’s father and Rush for his death. It’s disgusting they did this to this poor kid.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I just saw a CNN headline that said the Navy had indications it imploded on Sunday. Seems like they perished just shy of 2 hours into the journey.

Yeah they knew… the rescue seemed to be smoke and mirrors. Practice I guess.

But I do wonder if they could confirm without sending people in.

They confirmed by sending a robot. They recovered debris that matched the submersible. It took several days to get a device there that could reach such depths.

I'm talking about the navy who knew about the implosion Sunday.

They acted like they were rescuing until the O2 ran out. Then they found debris from the Titan and it was obvious what occurred.

Acting like rescuing is exactly the same as acting like looking for debris, except for not officially stating that they can't prove the passengers are dead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dr. Grande explores narcissism and analyzes current events from that perspective:

Dr. Grande's analysis of Stockton Rush (Richard Stockton Rush III) the CEO of OceanGate. He was the descendent of two individuals who signed the Declaration of Independence.

This sort of YouTube pseudoscience nonsense is not accepted by the psychiatry/psychology professional community.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldwater_rule

[Anonymous]

Hot take: boat/diving people consistently underestimate the risks.

[Anonymous]

I just heard a reporter say that the crew is “likely dead”.

[Anonymous]

Pardon me if this has already been answered, but didn’t this vessel survive previous dives to the Titanic? How many trips had it been on? I’m surprised an accident had not happened sooner. What made this trip different where the materials were insufficient to handle the pressure that it was able to handle on previous dives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pardon me if this has already been answered, but didn’t this vessel survive previous dives to the Titanic? How many trips had it been on? I’m surprised an accident had not happened sooner. What made this trip different where the materials were insufficient to handle the pressure that it was able to handle on previous dives?

This was its third trip. Any number of things could have gone wrong, and it had experienced problems on previous trips. With every dive, the protective materials get weaker from the pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Finally this story got the attention + coverage it deserved.

As well as the empathy.
Just because those lost at sea were billionaires, that didn’t mean the value (no pun) of their lives were any less.
These people were still human beings as all of us are.

They were parents, sons, spouses, etc.
They were someone’s good friend.

And they should never have been faulted for being adventurous & curious.
We do not place blame on astronauts who risk their lives by venturing into outer space…..
Look at how the Challenger’s last crew is remembered as being noble and brave.

Exploring the perimeters of our world takes courage - an excess amount of it.
Kudos to those w/the bravery to do so because their bravery allows the rest of us to learn more about the world we all are a part of.
And the images we are given from their adventures are truly breathtaking as well as priceless.

R.I.P. to all the five, very brave souls that were lost in this tragedy.
And may their legacy be remembered fondly. 🕊️

But the customers (with the exception of the French expert, if he paid) were not doing it to advance science.

They wanted the experience. Why are you lumping rich thrill seeking men in with astronauts (who carry out a mission as part of their public servant job)??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think of James Cameron speaking about this? Is he an exert because he filmed the movie Titanic?

James Cameron has been active in the deep sea exploration community since well before he filmed Titanic - he made the movie to finance his submersible exploration obsession. He’s been down to Titanic 33 times, and down to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, the deepest place in the world’s oceans. He has designed and built submersibles so he has extensive expertise regarding the engineering and physics involved and has put his own life on the line in pursuit of this passion.

So, yes.

Agree. He's not just a random celebrity opining on this.

+1. Np, and I like and respect that he stayed quiet until what really happened was exposed. He knew it imploded when it was first reported but did not insert himself. He adds a lot of knowledge to the subject, and honestly, who better to speak on it than him.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I did not read all 126 pages.

Do they know what day the implosion occurred? Do they think the people suffered?

So sad.

I heard an expert on TV say that they would have died instantaneously so wouldn’t have felt a thing. She also said that there wouldn’t be anything left of their bodies to recover.

How sad.
At the press conference held yesterday - I heard someone mention “recovery of the bodies” & wondered since the victims were killed in an implosion…..if there was any tangible body in tact to recover.

Because as was the case in the Challenger accident - there were no in tact bodies to recover afterward tragically.

I assume that is the case now.

Let's not rewrite history to fit our modern sensibilities.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-03-10-mn-2856-story.html

Your attempt to be edgy has made your comment incomprehensible.

Here's what the LA Times article says:

> NASA officials would not say if the entire crew [...] was still inside the split-level cabin nor would they comment on the condition of the module.

> “We really don’t want to say anything else in deference to the families,” NASA spokeswoman [...] said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you think of James Cameron speaking about this? Is he an exert because he filmed the movie Titanic?

Cameron one of the most experienced submarine builders and pilots in the world, with dozens of deep sea dives. The Titanic movie was a fundraiser for his submarining operation.