Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not read all 126 pages.

Do they know what day the implosion occurred? Do they think the people suffered?

So sad.

I heard an expert on TV say that they would have died instantaneously so wouldn’t have felt a thing. She also said that there wouldn’t be anything left of their bodies to recover.

How sad.
At the press conference held yesterday - I heard someone mention “recovery of the bodies” & wondered since the victims were killed in an implosion…..if there was any tangible body in tact to recover.

Because as was the case in the Challenger accident - there were no in tact bodies to recover afterward tragically.

I assume that is the case now.

Let's not rewrite history to fit our modern sensibilities.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-03-10-mn-2856-story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The more I hear about this submersible the more it seems very clear to me that Stockton Rush was either a conman or a madman, and he very obviously misled his passengers as to the safety of the design and fabrication of the Titan - liability waiver be damned. He told one potential passenger who ultimately decided not to go that it was ‘as safe as crossing the street.’

The irony of this event is nearly as crushing as the psi endured by that submersible, and it pains to see how little man progresses.

1000% agree.

[Anonymous]

$250K could have been donated to a house in a very nice neighborhood in the Midwest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much of this is outside the scope of what the average person can understand. Most DCUMers wore masks on the street for 2 years during COVID…this board trends risk-averse, not even comfort with normal risk.

I happen to be on the more-than-not risk-taker side (I regularly dive with 14 ft sharks without a cage, for example) but I know some extreme risk takers and they just don’t have a sense of fear like normal people do.

IMO, they knew what could go wrong and went anyway. This is on them.

In good news, it was quick death. Talking to an old Navy diver friend of mine…back in the day when they were doing this stuff with diving bells, when a failure happens, it happens under so much pressure that the remains were sucked into the lines. Nothi left but gluey pulp. I find that a comfort. Hats off to the explorers…someone has to do it. I am not that person, but I admire the grit.

All except the 19 year old.

[Anonymous]

US Coast Guard 4 days ago: we are conducting a search and rescue mission to save lives

US Navy 4 days ago: Sure, sure you are….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not read all 126 pages.

Do they know what day the implosion occurred? Do they think the people suffered?

So sad.

I doubt they did. It's possible they heard some creaking sounds as the vessel gave up.

They didn’t “know” in the sense that once the implosion happened it happened so fast your brain literally couldn’t process it. But they did know they were descending too quickly and risking implosion or that they had an incursion of water in the hulk risking implosion because they were releasing ballast before they had reached the bottom and begun ascent. So they had warnings that they were in danger which is why they attempted to release ballast and either slow descent or begin assent before actually reaching Titanic. At a minimum, Rush and Nageolet knew they were in a dangerous situation in the minutes leading up to the implosion.

Where did you hear they descended too quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Finally this story got the attention + coverage it deserved.

As well as the empathy.
Just because those lost at sea were billionaires, that didn’t mean the value (no pun) of their lives were any less.
These people were still human beings as all of us are.

They were parents, sons, spouses, etc.
They were someone’s good friend.

And they should never have been faulted for being adventurous & curious.
We do not place blame on astronauts who risk their lives by venturing into outer space…..
Look at how the Challenger’s last crew is remembered as being noble and brave.

Exploring the perimeters of our world takes courage - an excess amount of it.
Kudos to those w/the bravery to do so because their bravery allows the rest of us to learn more about the world we all are a part of.
And the images we are given from their adventures are truly breathtaking as well as priceless.

R.I.P. to all the five, very brave souls that were lost in this tragedy.
And may their legacy be remembered fondly. 🕊️

What?!? These were not explorers. They were thrill seekers. Trained astronauts don’t pay $250,000 to dive to some wreckage in a ramshackle submersible. C’mon - you cannot compare the two. They’re not even remotely the same.

Apologies if that was sarcasm and I misunderstood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The more I hear about this submersible the more it seems very clear to me that Stockton Rush was either a conman or a madman, and he very obviously misled his passengers as to the safety of the design and fabrication of the Titan - liability waiver be damned. He told one potential passenger who ultimately decided not to go that it was ‘as safe as crossing the street.’

The irony of this event is nearly as crushing as the psi endured by that submersible, and it pains to see how little man progresses.

1000% agree.

I'm going with madman. A conman wouldn't risk himself if he truly understood the thing to be a deathtrap. That's the craziest part to me. He knew it wasn't safe and got in the thing himself.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

The only person whose arm was possibly twisted was the 19yo.

His arm wasn’t twisted, he chose to ride the amusement ride because Daddy wanted company.

How do you know his at wasn't twisted or that he wanted to go? Lots of kids and teens do things in an attempt to please their parents and vice versa

He made the decision to go, if he really really didn’t want to go he should have put up a fight, kicking and screaming. He willingly signed the waiver and went, he probably had reservations and fear, but he is as accountable as any other passenger. He wasn’t a child. No one wants to take any personal responsibility at all. They knew the risks. It’s sad, but crap happens. Trying to justify this by suing and having 6 generations set for life is repulsive.

It’s like you’re completely unaware that dysfunctional relationships between fathers and sons exist. You have no idea if he was a controlling, abusive, or dominating father or a loving, accepting, and gentle one. For all you know, he could have teased him and called him names when he expressed fear. He could have threatened to stop supporting him.

[Anonymous]

What do you think of James Cameron speaking about this? Is he an exert because he filmed the movie Titanic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much of this is outside the scope of what the average person can understand. Most DCUMers wore masks on the street for 2 years during COVID…this board trends risk-averse, not even comfort with normal risk.

I happen to be on the more-than-not risk-taker side (I regularly dive with 14 ft sharks without a cage, for example) but I know some extreme risk takers and they just don’t have a sense of fear like normal people do.

IMO, they knew what could go wrong and went anyway. This is on them.

In good news, it was quick death. Talking to an old Navy diver friend of mine…back in the day when they were doing this stuff with diving bells, when a failure happens, it happens under so much pressure that the remains were sucked into the lines. Nothi left but gluey pulp. I find that a comfort. Hats off to the explorers…someone has to do it. I am not that person, but I admire the grit.

This response is like a breath of fresh air to this thread.

Humans have risked their lives for exploration and adventure as long as we've been human. They aren't saints or villains. Just humans pushing boundaries.

It's ironic due to the tragedy that is the Titanic itself, but humans also love a good story.

I agree with both of you - except this wasn't them taking the risk to dive with sharks (which I've done, too). It was basically having a yahoo commit consumer fraud by sending them to their deaths in a rickety contraption with known safety issues. They could have done deep sea exploration - and it would have come with risks. These were unnecessary risks. They weren't on the vanguard of testing a brand new form of transportation - an ultra lightweight plane that the engineers believe work, and now you've got to try it. This was a death trap. That's not great exploration - that's consumer fraud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Finally this story got the attention + coverage it deserved.

As well as the empathy.
Just because those lost at sea were billionaires, that didn’t mean the value (no pun) of their lives were any less.
These people were still human beings as all of us are.

They were parents, sons, spouses, etc.
They were someone’s good friend.

And they should never have been faulted for being adventurous & curious.
We do not place blame on astronauts who risk their lives by venturing into outer space…..
Look at how the Challenger’s last crew is remembered as being noble and brave.

Exploring the perimeters of our world takes courage - an excess amount of it.
Kudos to those w/the bravery to do so because their bravery allows the rest of us to learn more about the world we all are a part of.
And the images we are given from their adventures are truly breathtaking as well as priceless.

R.I.P. to all the five, very brave souls that were lost in this tragedy.
And may their legacy be remembered fondly. 🕊️

But this wasn't "exploring the perimeters of our world" - people have been to the Titanic before. James Cameron has been there something like three dozen times. Not a lot of people have gotten to go this deep, but they weren't about to make findings that no one else has seen, and to heck with safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

DP. I would think that there’d be jurisdiction somewhere based on where the advertisements could reach, where the contract was signed, etc. I wonder if there are going to be fraudulent misrepresentations coming out. Sounds like maybe there was some exaggerating in those online videos re: the involvement of Boeing, NASA, etc.

I’m also curious what all is in the waiver although that isn’t going to be ironclad.

I have no idea, but I read that Oceangate was saavy in that they purposely operated from this free space if you will, to avoid jurisdiction.

Every one on that sub was super wealthy with the possible exception of the 77 year old French pilot. I don’t know what his background and wealth level is.

Which doesn’t mean they don’t deserve or couldn’t get the money, but it might make the families less inclined to deal with suing.

Hmm you’d be surprised. That hasn’t been my experience in litigation. Often the wealthier a party is the more inclined it is to sue bc it can have Cravath or some top UK or Canada firm run a litigation on its behalf for years and just pay the monthly firm bill. Families like these thing in generations - sure for the Dawoods, 3-4 generations of their family are set (I have no idea) but if they feel Oceangate/Oceangate’s eventual bankruptcy estate should pay up - eventually 6-8 generations of their fam could be set.

Hmmm, it would never even cross my mind to sue for this. Hmmm…such a disgusting litigious society we must endure.

On the contrary--the litigation may be the only thing that causes some future idiot to think twice about doing this.

How so? If someone willingly signs a waiver and is aware that death is a real possibility, how would litigation stop them? Why would an idiot even care?

The only person whose arm was possibly twisted was the 19yo.

His arm wasn’t twisted, he chose to ride the amusement ride because Daddy wanted company.

How do you know his at wasn't twisted or that he wanted to go? Lots of kids and teens do things in an attempt to please their parents and vice versa

He made the decision to go, if he really really didn’t want to go he should have put up a fight, kicking and screaming. He willingly signed the waiver and went, he probably had reservations and fear, but he is as accountable as any other passenger. He wasn’t a child. No one wants to take any personal responsibility at all. They knew the risks. It’s sad, but crap happens. Trying to justify this by suing and having 6 generations set for life is repulsive.

It’s like you’re completely unaware that dysfunctional relationships between fathers and sons exist. You have no idea if he was a controlling, abusive, or dominating father or a loving, accepting, and gentle one. For all you know, he could have teased him and called him names when he expressed fear. He could have threatened to stop supporting him.

Succession, but with actual stakes.

We don't know. Someone on the radio this morning was saying that both father and son were kind, loving people. Sometimes parents push kids past their comfort zones, and it doesn't usually end like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you think of James Cameron speaking about this? Is he an exert because he filmed the movie Titanic?

James Cameron has been active in the deep sea exploration community since well before he filmed Titanic - he made the movie to finance his submersible exploration obsession. He’s been down to Titanic 33 times, and down to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, the deepest place in the world’s oceans. He has designed and built submersibles so he has extensive expertise regarding the engineering and physics involved and has put his own life on the line in pursuit of this passion.

So, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t stop thinking about this but what does implosion mean? I’m trying to visualize this and the pressure? What does it do to the sub and human body? Is it like a plane explosion mid air?

It is the opposite of explosion. In an explosion, an source on the inside of a structure (usually an ignition) drives everything catastrophically out. In an implosion, a pressure source on the outside of a structure (here, water pressure) drives everything catastrophically in.

The end result of both, to the human body, is pulverization.

This is why having a vessel that could withstand water pressure of this intensity was such a high priority, and why having failed to assure that was such a glaring mistake. Almost suicidally in error.

Homicidally in error.

If the CEO had lived I would definitely have expected charges in this vein, and it would not shock me if there is civil litigation against other Oceangate execs along those lines.

What jurisdiction can they be made in? any lawyers here know?

No jurisdiction

That particular area of the Atlantic belongs to no one, and because the submersible was transported via another boat and launched from that location, it doesn’t technically belong to any jurisdiction.

But the implosions was not the violation. The civil infraction took place with the manufacture , marketing and ticjet sakes, no?

Thise happened elsewhere.