Be careful: The same people who are weaponizing school opening are also blocking safe opening

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm just a parent, not an expert on teaching or education policy.

However, having seen my kids through public schools, I would say that to the extent training is needed and helpful, teachers should be paid more and receive the training outside of the regular school year to avoid disruptions to student learning.

I question how helpful the PD teachers receive is when they are constantly being pulled from class and away from their students to receive it. It makes no sense.

This is a case where, if teachers had a voice, they could push for paid PD over the summer. They aren't picking these windows - the districts are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pro union and I don’t see it as the unions’ job to advocate for educational quality- their job is to advocate for the teachers’ interests.

It’s like expecting a union of Amazon workers to advocate for the customers- sorry that’s not their interest. It is a worker organization.

If you want higher quality teachers then teaching should be a higher paid and more respected profession like it is in other advanced countries. If it were a more competitive field you would see higher quality candidates.

I will continue to dispute this. Teacher pay in this region aligns with the pay to other government employees with similar education.

And no, teacher's unions do not limit their advocacy to protecting their workers. Their demands extend beyond workplace issues and they purport to speak for students and families. That's where they have overplayed their hands.

Is that true though? Citation?

Regardless, if we want high-quality teachers (and better outcomes for kids) we should increase the pay/respect/prestige.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is political.
Allocation of resources in any municipality is done by political leaders. Priorities are set by those same leaders.

Frankly, the politics of race has played a large role in shuttering schools. Minorities have been hit hard by Covid - and have not demanded schools reopen out of well founded health concerns.

In the name of “equity” politicians have kept schools closed. The DMV has a large minority population and no leader wants to prioritize an issue that is not supported by a large group of people.

Of course it’s political in the DMV.

So making sure that children of color have access to the same things that their white peers do is politics now? I thought that was basic human decency. It isn interesting how comfortable people are with unfairness in the system as long as they are on the winning side of it but when the coin flips, "That's not fair" is the cry.

If you weren't such a union-hating asshole who fear collective action, then all kids could get the same education.

Where have unions gotten smaller class sizes or science-based literacy programs? In my state the (non-collective bargaining) union isn't pushing for these things.

That’s because they aren’t a “union” and don’t have any political power.

They spend an awful lot of time pushing for other things, though. They advocated for keeping school doors closed, for the Biden administration to do a wide variety of politicized things in education, for specific funding items in the state budget. But I don't hear them advocating for things that teachers I actually know say they want.

Who do you mean by "they"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am pro union and I don’t see it as the unions’ job to advocate for educational quality- their job is to advocate for the teachers’ interests.

It’s like expecting a union of Amazon workers to advocate for the customers- sorry that’s not their interest. It is a worker organization.

If you want higher quality teachers then teaching should be a higher paid and more respected profession like it is in other advanced countries. If it were a more competitive field you would see higher quality candidates.

Some of that would come indirectly.

Better pay, benefits, PD, prestige, etc. will result in better teachers and better quality of education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am pro union and I don’t see it as the unions’ job to advocate for educational quality- their job is to advocate for the teachers’ interests.

It’s like expecting a union of Amazon workers to advocate for the customers- sorry that’s not their interest. It is a worker organization.

If you want higher quality teachers then teaching should be a higher paid and more respected profession like it is in other advanced countries. If it were a more competitive field you would see higher quality candidates.

I will continue to dispute this. Teacher pay in this region aligns with the pay to other government employees with similar education.

And no, teacher's unions do not limit their advocacy to protecting their workers. Their demands extend beyond workplace issues and they purport to speak for students and families. That's where they have overplayed their hands.

Is that true though? Citation?

Regardless, if we want high-quality teachers (and better outcomes for kids) we should increase the pay/respect/prestige.

Here is the salary schedule for Montgomery County teachers.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/fy21_mcea_salary_schedules.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm just a parent, not an expert on teaching or education policy.

However, having seen my kids through public schools, I would say that to the extent training is needed and helpful, teachers should be paid more and receive the training outside of the regular school year to avoid disruptions to student learning.

I question how helpful the PD teachers receive is when they are constantly being pulled from class and away from their students to receive it. It makes no sense.

This is a case where, if teachers had a voice, they could push for paid PD over the summer. They aren't picking these windows - the districts are.

I wasn't criticizing teachers; just pointing out that the current system for PD makes no sense and hurts children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am pro union and I don’t see it as the unions’ job to advocate for educational quality- their job is to advocate for the teachers’ interests.

It’s like expecting a union of Amazon workers to advocate for the customers- sorry that’s not their interest. It is a worker organization.

If you want higher quality teachers then teaching should be a higher paid and more respected profession like it is in other advanced countries. If it were a more competitive field you would see higher quality candidates.

So, it sounds like indeed, that unions confer no direct benefit to educational outcomes. So far, the only argument that I have seen is that blue areas have both unions and better educational outcomes. But it's not clear why that would be the causal connection and not other policies related to local politics. Or simple wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is political.
Allocation of resources in any municipality is done by political leaders. Priorities are set by those same leaders.

Frankly, the politics of race has played a large role in shuttering schools. Minorities have been hit hard by Covid - and have not demanded schools reopen out of well founded health concerns.

In the name of “equity” politicians have kept schools closed. The DMV has a large minority population and no leader wants to prioritize an issue that is not supported by a large group of people.

Of course it’s political in the DMV.

So making sure that children of color have access to the same things that their white peers do is politics now? I thought that was basic human decency. It isn interesting how comfortable people are with unfairness in the system as long as they are on the winning side of it but when the coin flips, "That's not fair" is the cry.

If you weren't such a union-hating asshole who fear collective action, then all kids could get the same education.

Where have unions gotten smaller class sizes or science-based literacy programs? In my state the (non-collective bargaining) union isn't pushing for these things.

Since your googler is broken:
https://www.aft.org/periodical/american-educator/winter-2006-2007/nurturing-teacher-knowledge
https://www.aft.org/periodical/american-educator/winter-2006-2007/erd-twenty-five-years-union-sponsored

Also, teacher unions promote professional development. Our district wants to move towards structured literacy but hasn’t offered teachers much yet for PD. If they had a teacher union pushing for PD that would happen more quickly.

Teacher unions also raise the level of discussion of education policy. They give teachers a seat at the table. Right now they have no voice in VA. People don’t respect teachers or the expertise they offer. Certainly not the right mindset if VA wants to improve its schools.

Having more teachers with a seat at the table does nothing for education policy. There are people who study education policy out there. These people should be in charge. Teachers don't know anything outside of their classroom/school.

That’s a ridiculous sentiment. The people who work in education policy are so far removed from students and classrooms. They’ve been allowed to dictate every policy decision that undermines public schools and efforts to educate children. Parents don’t know anything about it-they just know their own children. Fixed it for you.

Oh, I see. You think I am a parent. I am not. I do have knowledge about teachers and education policy, however. You have an incoherent view of education policy. You seem to be blaming everything bad on policy, and can't see any of the good. If you care in the least about equity, you will realize just how much policy has to do with it.

What is incoherent? The pile of evidence that people who work in educational policy have done a terrible job? What good has anyone in educational policy done? Not succeeded in (ever) funding IDEA? Not integrating schools? Forcing schools to administer federally mandated state tests (as the federal government did literally yesterday) during the pandemic? Funneling hundreds of millions of dollars to Pearson and other big testing corporations, instead of toward literally anything that benefits students? Allowing tax dollars to be funneled to charters, starving our public schools? Creating loan forgiveness policies that deny nearly every application? Allowing predatory for profit colleges to take advantage of working class people and immigrants? You’re right. All of these policies have been genius.

See, you are picking and choosing policies that you don't like. Without evidence-based policy, we would not have a lot of the things we currently do. Rural schools. FAPE. Reduced discrimination. Increased integration. 504 and IEPs. Any accountability. Teacher credentialing. All of the stuff that seems equitable to you about schools aside from the classroom-level is done through policy. But because this is the water you swim in, you can't see how this was created through policy at a number of levels.

I mean, I shouldn't really be arguing with anyone who can't imagine what life would be like if each teacher got to choose their students, accountability measures, and inclusivity for themselves.

[Anonymous]

people only talk about teacher pay as though it was low because people have been saying that for decades. it's nowhere near as true as it once was.

it's been established already that teachers make a comparable wage for their education in this area. every comparison i've seen which suggested they were out of alignment were comparing apples to oranges, like the average national salary for teachers to the average DC salary, or the average salary of a local teacher to the local HHI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:people only talk about teacher pay as though it was low because people have been saying that for decades. it's nowhere near as true as it once was.

it's been established already that teachers make a comparable wage for their education in this area. every comparison i've seen which suggested they were out of alignment were comparing apples to oranges, like the average national salary for teachers to the average DC salary, or the average salary of a local teacher to the local HHI.

Welp, it will be politically impossible to give teachers raises now, regardless. I, for one, have become a pro-voucher democrat. It's unjust to tether families who can't afford private to closed schools indefinitely. Great if your kid likes DL, but for mine, it's worse than nothing at all.

[Anonymous]

Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

[Anonymous]

I mean, $56K is not a great salary to live on in DC, but it IS in line with what others with similar education are making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, $56K is not a great salary to live on in DC, but it IS in line with what others with similar education are making.

Actually, it's more, right? That salary is for 10 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, $56K is not a great salary to live on in DC, but it IS in line with what others with similar education are making.

Actually, it's more, right? That salary is for 10 months.

Ah yes, you are correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, $56K is not a great salary to live on in DC, but it IS in line with what others with similar education are making.

Actually, it's more, right? That salary is for 10 months.

Ah yes, you are correct.

So assuming the teacher can make the same rate in the summer, their salary would be more like $67k for a 12-month position.