Be careful: The same people who are weaponizing school opening are also blocking safe opening

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

^^no matter what data you give to these people, they will always claim that something ELSE is the problem. Like I could go out of my way to point out that teachers also get increases every year, and that they can also train for higher positions, but it wouldn't matter. Next she'd say that the problem is at the high end. Or in general prestige or comparing master's degrees or something. There's no point in arguing with someone who produces no actual non-anecdotal data and who rejects all of your data because they don't like the conclusion.

Lol. I’m actually a parent, anti-unions in general, have been appalled at teachers this whole time. The problem is low teacher pay around here. It doesn’t attract good, smart people to the field. Look at how they type. There’s some teacher on the VA schools board who can’t understand apostrophe usage. They’re a bunch of career changers and people getting their MRS degrees. You can’t attract better people to field without better pay. Yes I get that the contracts are for 10 months but at some point, the pay is the pay, and any summer job they’d get would likely be in the $10-$15/hr range so doesn’t make up for the 2 months in the summer.

Better pay and then align benefits to be more like the private sector. People need money now to pay those student loans, not the promise of a pension in the future ... maybe. We treat teaching as a “calling,” some noble thing like being a nun or something, that we then justify paying teachers less. It needs to be professionalized just like any other occupation.

The pay IS aligned with the private sector. Read the above cited stats. Teachers make comparable or more than others with similar backgrounds. And that's not even including what they could make in the summer. I would also imagine that teachers receive better benefits, on average, and get more holidays, etc. I agree that there are shit aspects of teaching, but there are also nice aspects. It seems at least in unionized areas it is very difficult to get fired for doing a crappy job, so that's a plus (on par with government employees).

I also agree that there are some real duds in the teaching profession, but there are duds in any job. Are they on average duds? Are the majority duds? I don't think so.

I'm also sort of at a crossroads as to whether teaching is some put-upon profession or whether it is an average-to-slightly-better-than-average job. I used to really agree that teachers got the shit-end of the stick, but looking at data and thinking about it, it's really not that bad.

Do you hope and dream that your kids will become a teacher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

What top college grads are looking for a government position or teacher position?

Until top students consider it a respected, well-paid profession, we are stuck with only a handful of passionate top students. The rest are the dregs.

Who on here actually dreams that their kid becomes a teacher?

I was a prior poster, and I said STATE government. Federal employees are paid better than state government employees.

I must have missed the post. I was referring back to this comment: "Teacher pay in this region aligns with the pay to other government employees with similar education."

Anyway, that's even worse. What top college grads are looking for a STATE government position? Zero.

Seriously. How much do you want teachers to be paid? More than all of the top State officials?

Do you want your kids spending all day with "state government workers"? Do you want your kids to become "state government workers"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

What top college grads are looking for a government position or teacher position?

Until top students consider it a respected, well-paid profession, we are stuck with only a handful of passionate top students. The rest are the dregs.

Who on here actually dreams that their kid becomes a teacher?

I was a prior poster, and I said STATE government. Federal employees are paid better than state government employees.

I must have missed the post. I was referring back to this comment: "Teacher pay in this region aligns with the pay to other government employees with similar education."

Anyway, that's even worse. What top college grads are looking for a STATE government position? Zero.

Seriously. How much do you want teachers to be paid? More than all of the top State officials?

Do you want your kids spending all day with "state government workers"? Do you want your kids to become "state government workers"?

Yes. As with any employment arrangement, there are pros and cons. You have no idea how many superstars work in state government. They just aren't highly paid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

^^no matter what data you give to these people, they will always claim that something ELSE is the problem. Like I could go out of my way to point out that teachers also get increases every year, and that they can also train for higher positions, but it wouldn't matter. Next she'd say that the problem is at the high end. Or in general prestige or comparing master's degrees or something. There's no point in arguing with someone who produces no actual non-anecdotal data and who rejects all of your data because they don't like the conclusion.

Lol. I’m actually a parent, anti-unions in general, have been appalled at teachers this whole time. The problem is low teacher pay around here. It doesn’t attract good, smart people to the field. Look at how they type. There’s some teacher on the VA schools board who can’t understand apostrophe usage. They’re a bunch of career changers and people getting their MRS degrees. You can’t attract better people to field without better pay. Yes I get that the contracts are for 10 months but at some point, the pay is the pay, and any summer job they’d get would likely be in the $10-$15/hr range so doesn’t make up for the 2 months in the summer.

Better pay and then align benefits to be more like the private sector. People need money now to pay those student loans, not the promise of a pension in the future ... maybe. We treat teaching as a “calling,” some noble thing like being a nun or something, that we then justify paying teachers less. It needs to be professionalized just like any other occupation.

How do you propose to pay private wages for a public job? Also, how much do you think teachers should be making? $150,000 for 10 months? 200,000?

Teachers in many European countries are fairly compensated. We could do it here in the US too. I don’t know specifics but good grief. Who can live as a single adult in the DC area making, like, $60k? Which is what teachers make after 8ish years. It’s just a really, really unappealing amount of money in a more expensive area. The 8 year fed, nurse, computer programmer .... all doing much better with similar levels of education.

+1

If the teacher pay scale was more in line with nursing (or teachers in European countries) I think it'd draw in more top students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

What top college grads are looking for a government position or teacher position?

Until top students consider it a respected, well-paid profession, we are stuck with only a handful of passionate top students. The rest are the dregs.

Who on here actually dreams that their kid becomes a teacher?

I was a prior poster, and I said STATE government. Federal employees are paid better than state government employees.

I must have missed the post. I was referring back to this comment: "Teacher pay in this region aligns with the pay to other government employees with similar education."

Anyway, that's even worse. What top college grads are looking for a STATE government position? Zero.

Seriously. How much do you want teachers to be paid? More than all of the top State officials?

Do you want your kids spending all day with "state government workers"? Do you want your kids to become "state government workers"?

Yes. As with any employment arrangement, there are pros and cons. You have no idea how many superstars work in state government. They just aren't highly paid.

You want your kids to work for the state government?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is political.
Allocation of resources in any municipality is done by political leaders. Priorities are set by those same leaders.

Frankly, the politics of race has played a large role in shuttering schools. Minorities have been hit hard by Covid - and have not demanded schools reopen out of well founded health concerns.

In the name of “equity” politicians have kept schools closed. The DMV has a large minority population and no leader wants to prioritize an issue that is not supported by a large group of people.

Of course it’s political in the DMV.

So making sure that children of color have access to the same things that their white peers do is politics now? I thought that was basic human decency. It isn interesting how comfortable people are with unfairness in the system as long as they are on the winning side of it but when the coin flips, "That's not fair" is the cry.

If you weren't such a union-hating asshole who fear collective action, then all kids could get the same education.

Where have unions gotten smaller class sizes or science-based literacy programs? In my state the (non-collective bargaining) union isn't pushing for these things.

Since your googler is broken:
https://www.aft.org/periodical/american-educator/winter-2006-2007/nurturing-teacher-knowledge
https://www.aft.org/periodical/american-educator/winter-2006-2007/erd-twenty-five-years-union-sponsored

Also, teacher unions promote professional development. Our district wants to move towards structured literacy but hasn’t offered teachers much yet for PD. If they had a teacher union pushing for PD that would happen more quickly.

Teacher unions also raise the level of discussion of education policy. They give teachers a seat at the table. Right now they have no voice in VA. People don’t respect teachers or the expertise they offer. Certainly not the right mindset if VA wants to improve its schools.

Having more teachers with a seat at the table does nothing for education policy. There are people who study education policy out there. These people should be in charge. Teachers don't know anything outside of their classroom/school.

That’s a ridiculous sentiment. The people who work in education policy are so far removed from students and classrooms. They’ve been allowed to dictate every policy decision that undermines public schools and efforts to educate children. Parents don’t know anything about it-they just know their own children. Fixed it for you.

Oh, I see. You think I am a parent. I am not. I do have knowledge about teachers and education policy, however. You have an incoherent view of education policy. You seem to be blaming everything bad on policy, and can't see any of the good. If you care in the least about equity, you will realize just how much policy has to do with it.

What is incoherent? The pile of evidence that people who work in educational policy have done a terrible job? What good has anyone in educational policy done? Not succeeded in (ever) funding IDEA? Not integrating schools? Forcing schools to administer federally mandated state tests (as the federal government did literally yesterday) during the pandemic? Funneling hundreds of millions of dollars to Pearson and other big testing corporations, instead of toward literally anything that benefits students? Allowing tax dollars to be funneled to charters, starving our public schools? Creating loan forgiveness policies that deny nearly every application? Allowing predatory for profit colleges to take advantage of working class people and immigrants? You’re right. All of these policies have been genius.

See, you are picking and choosing policies that you don't like. Without evidence-based policy, we would not have a lot of the things we currently do. Rural schools. FAPE. Reduced discrimination. Increased integration. 504 and IEPs. Any accountability. Teacher credentialing. All of the stuff that seems equitable to you about schools aside from the classroom-level is done through policy. But because this is the water you swim in, you can't see how this was created through policy at a number of levels.

I mean, I shouldn't really be arguing with anyone who can't imagine what life would be like if each teacher got to choose their students, accountability measures, and inclusivity for themselves.

Many of the policies I listed are extremely recent, and absolutely terrible for students and teachers alike. It is a mistake to assume that “experts” outside the field are better equipped to make these decisions than the people implementing them on the ground. People love to gripe about how our school system needs to be overhauled, and I think many teachers agree. I don’t know why anyone thinks the best way to do this is to hire more overpriced, out of touch consultants, rather than to include career educators in these decisions and policies. I don’t see a single point of evidence that these “policy experts” have any sort of insight or expertise in the field that makes them better equipped than the teachers and administrators who actually run our schools. You don’t have to argue with me at all. The horrible educational policies that have destroyed our country’s education system speak for themselves. Many of the things you’re listing are ideas and not policies (reduced discrimination, “any accountability”).

Once again, if you’re calling them highly paid consultants brought in, then you have no idea who a policy expert actually is or at what levels policy is set. You’re taking out of your ass based on what you think is true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

^^no matter what data you give to these people, they will always claim that something ELSE is the problem. Like I could go out of my way to point out that teachers also get increases every year, and that they can also train for higher positions, but it wouldn't matter. Next she'd say that the problem is at the high end. Or in general prestige or comparing master's degrees or something. There's no point in arguing with someone who produces no actual non-anecdotal data and who rejects all of your data because they don't like the conclusion.

Lol. I’m actually a parent, anti-unions in general, have been appalled at teachers this whole time. The problem is low teacher pay around here. It doesn’t attract good, smart people to the field. Look at how they type. There’s some teacher on the VA schools board who can’t understand apostrophe usage. They’re a bunch of career changers and people getting their MRS degrees. You can’t attract better people to field without better pay. Yes I get that the contracts are for 10 months but at some point, the pay is the pay, and any summer job they’d get would likely be in the $10-$15/hr range so doesn’t make up for the 2 months in the summer.

Better pay and then align benefits to be more like the private sector. People need money now to pay those student loans, not the promise of a pension in the future ... maybe. We treat teaching as a “calling,” some noble thing like being a nun or something, that we then justify paying teachers less. It needs to be professionalized just like any other occupation.

How do you propose to pay private wages for a public job? Also, how much do you think teachers should be making? $150,000 for 10 months? 200,000?

Teachers in many European countries are fairly compensated. We could do it here in the US too. I don’t know specifics but good grief. Who can live as a single adult in the DC area making, like, $60k? Which is what teachers make after 8ish years. It’s just a really, really unappealing amount of money in a more expensive area. The 8 year fed, nurse, computer programmer .... all doing much better with similar levels of education.

+1

If the teacher pay scale was more in line with nursing (or teachers in European countries) I think it'd draw in more top students.

Why is that so horrible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

What top college grads are looking for a government position or teacher position?

Until top students consider it a respected, well-paid profession, we are stuck with only a handful of passionate top students. The rest are the dregs.

Who on here actually dreams that their kid becomes a teacher?

I was a prior poster, and I said STATE government. Federal employees are paid better than state government employees.

I must have missed the post. I was referring back to this comment: "Teacher pay in this region aligns with the pay to other government employees with similar education."

Anyway, that's even worse. What top college grads are looking for a STATE government position? Zero.

Seriously. How much do you want teachers to be paid? More than all of the top State officials?

Do you want your kids spending all day with "state government workers"? Do you want your kids to become "state government workers"?

Yes. As with any employment arrangement, there are pros and cons. You have no idea how many superstars work in state government. They just aren't highly paid.

You want your kids to work for the state government?

DP. There are amazing people who work for state governments ... I had a HS friend whose dad's job was to measure snowpacks in the Sierras and assess seasonal weather/water trends. he basically skied and show-shoed all winter for his job. so yeah pretty cool!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is political.
Allocation of resources in any municipality is done by political leaders. Priorities are set by those same leaders.

Frankly, the politics of race has played a large role in shuttering schools. Minorities have been hit hard by Covid - and have not demanded schools reopen out of well founded health concerns.

In the name of “equity” politicians have kept schools closed. The DMV has a large minority population and no leader wants to prioritize an issue that is not supported by a large group of people.

Of course it’s political in the DMV.

So making sure that children of color have access to the same things that their white peers do is politics now? I thought that was basic human decency. It isn interesting how comfortable people are with unfairness in the system as long as they are on the winning side of it but when the coin flips, "That's not fair" is the cry.

If you weren't such a union-hating asshole who fear collective action, then all kids could get the same education.

Where have unions gotten smaller class sizes or science-based literacy programs? In my state the (non-collective bargaining) union isn't pushing for these things.

Since your googler is broken:
https://www.aft.org/periodical/american-educator/winter-2006-2007/nurturing-teacher-knowledge
https://www.aft.org/periodical/american-educator/winter-2006-2007/erd-twenty-five-years-union-sponsored

Also, teacher unions promote professional development. Our district wants to move towards structured literacy but hasn’t offered teachers much yet for PD. If they had a teacher union pushing for PD that would happen more quickly.

Teacher unions also raise the level of discussion of education policy. They give teachers a seat at the table. Right now they have no voice in VA. People don’t respect teachers or the expertise they offer. Certainly not the right mindset if VA wants to improve its schools.

Having more teachers with a seat at the table does nothing for education policy. There are people who study education policy out there. These people should be in charge. Teachers don't know anything outside of their classroom/school.

That’s a ridiculous sentiment. The people who work in education policy are so far removed from students and classrooms. They’ve been allowed to dictate every policy decision that undermines public schools and efforts to educate children. Parents don’t know anything about it-they just know their own children. Fixed it for you.

Oh, I see. You think I am a parent. I am not. I do have knowledge about teachers and education policy, however. You have an incoherent view of education policy. You seem to be blaming everything bad on policy, and can't see any of the good. If you care in the least about equity, you will realize just how much policy has to do with it.

What is incoherent? The pile of evidence that people who work in educational policy have done a terrible job? What good has anyone in educational policy done? Not succeeded in (ever) funding IDEA? Not integrating schools? Forcing schools to administer federally mandated state tests (as the federal government did literally yesterday) during the pandemic? Funneling hundreds of millions of dollars to Pearson and other big testing corporations, instead of toward literally anything that benefits students? Allowing tax dollars to be funneled to charters, starving our public schools? Creating loan forgiveness policies that deny nearly every application? Allowing predatory for profit colleges to take advantage of working class people and immigrants? You’re right. All of these policies have been genius.

See, you are picking and choosing policies that you don't like. Without evidence-based policy, we would not have a lot of the things we currently do. Rural schools. FAPE. Reduced discrimination. Increased integration. 504 and IEPs. Any accountability. Teacher credentialing. All of the stuff that seems equitable to you about schools aside from the classroom-level is done through policy. But because this is the water you swim in, you can't see how this was created through policy at a number of levels.

I mean, I shouldn't really be arguing with anyone who can't imagine what life would be like if each teacher got to choose their students, accountability measures, and inclusivity for themselves.

Many of the policies I listed are extremely recent, and absolutely terrible for students and teachers alike. It is a mistake to assume that “experts” outside the field are better equipped to make these decisions than the people implementing them on the ground. People love to gripe about how our school system needs to be overhauled, and I think many teachers agree. I don’t know why anyone thinks the best way to do this is to hire more overpriced, out of touch consultants, rather than to include career educators in these decisions and policies. I don’t see a single point of evidence that these “policy experts” have any sort of insight or expertise in the field that makes them better equipped than the teachers and administrators who actually run our schools. You don’t have to argue with me at all. The horrible educational policies that have destroyed our country’s education system speak for themselves. Many of the things you’re listing are ideas and not policies (reduced discrimination, “any accountability”).

the funny part is you just listing policies you paid attention to because you didn't like them and then assuming this is all policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

What top college grads are looking for a government position or teacher position?

Until top students consider it a respected, well-paid profession, we are stuck with only a handful of passionate top students. The rest are the dregs.

Who on here actually dreams that their kid becomes a teacher?

I was a prior poster, and I said STATE government. Federal employees are paid better than state government employees.

I must have missed the post. I was referring back to this comment: "Teacher pay in this region aligns with the pay to other government employees with similar education."

Anyway, that's even worse. What top college grads are looking for a STATE government position? Zero.

Seriously. How much do you want teachers to be paid? More than all of the top State officials?

Do you want your kids spending all day with "state government workers"? Do you want your kids to become "state government workers"?

Can anyone tell me what this argument is about and why we are supposed to hate state government workers? Is this a new libertarian talking point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is political.
Allocation of resources in any municipality is done by political leaders. Priorities are set by those same leaders.

Frankly, the politics of race has played a large role in shuttering schools. Minorities have been hit hard by Covid - and have not demanded schools reopen out of well founded health concerns.

In the name of “equity” politicians have kept schools closed. The DMV has a large minority population and no leader wants to prioritize an issue that is not supported by a large group of people.

Of course it’s political in the DMV.

So making sure that children of color have access to the same things that their white peers do is politics now? I thought that was basic human decency. It isn interesting how comfortable people are with unfairness in the system as long as they are on the winning side of it but when the coin flips, "That's not fair" is the cry.

If you weren't such a union-hating asshole who fear collective action, then all kids could get the same education.

Where have unions gotten smaller class sizes or science-based literacy programs? In my state the (non-collective bargaining) union isn't pushing for these things.

Since your googler is broken:
https://www.aft.org/periodical/american-educator/winter-2006-2007/nurturing-teacher-knowledge
https://www.aft.org/periodical/american-educator/winter-2006-2007/erd-twenty-five-years-union-sponsored

Also, teacher unions promote professional development. Our district wants to move towards structured literacy but hasn’t offered teachers much yet for PD. If they had a teacher union pushing for PD that would happen more quickly.

Teacher unions also raise the level of discussion of education policy. They give teachers a seat at the table. Right now they have no voice in VA. People don’t respect teachers or the expertise they offer. Certainly not the right mindset if VA wants to improve its schools.

Having more teachers with a seat at the table does nothing for education policy. There are people who study education policy out there. These people should be in charge. Teachers don't know anything outside of their classroom/school.

That’s a ridiculous sentiment. The people who work in education policy are so far removed from students and classrooms. They’ve been allowed to dictate every policy decision that undermines public schools and efforts to educate children. Parents don’t know anything about it-they just know their own children. Fixed it for you.

Oh, I see. You think I am a parent. I am not. I do have knowledge about teachers and education policy, however. You have an incoherent view of education policy. You seem to be blaming everything bad on policy, and can't see any of the good. If you care in the least about equity, you will realize just how much policy has to do with it.

What is incoherent? The pile of evidence that people who work in educational policy have done a terrible job? What good has anyone in educational policy done? Not succeeded in (ever) funding IDEA? Not integrating schools? Forcing schools to administer federally mandated state tests (as the federal government did literally yesterday) during the pandemic? Funneling hundreds of millions of dollars to Pearson and other big testing corporations, instead of toward literally anything that benefits students? Allowing tax dollars to be funneled to charters, starving our public schools? Creating loan forgiveness policies that deny nearly every application? Allowing predatory for profit colleges to take advantage of working class people and immigrants? You’re right. All of these policies have been genius.

See, you are picking and choosing policies that you don't like. Without evidence-based policy, we would not have a lot of the things we currently do. Rural schools. FAPE. Reduced discrimination. Increased integration. 504 and IEPs. Any accountability. Teacher credentialing. All of the stuff that seems equitable to you about schools aside from the classroom-level is done through policy. But because this is the water you swim in, you can't see how this was created through policy at a number of levels.

I mean, I shouldn't really be arguing with anyone who can't imagine what life would be like if each teacher got to choose their students, accountability measures, and inclusivity for themselves.

Many of the policies I listed are extremely recent, and absolutely terrible for students and teachers alike. It is a mistake to assume that “experts” outside the field are better equipped to make these decisions than the people implementing them on the ground. People love to gripe about how our school system needs to be overhauled, and I think many teachers agree. I don’t know why anyone thinks the best way to do this is to hire more overpriced, out of touch consultants, rather than to include career educators in these decisions and policies. I don’t see a single point of evidence that these “policy experts” have any sort of insight or expertise in the field that makes them better equipped than the teachers and administrators who actually run our schools. You don’t have to argue with me at all. The horrible educational policies that have destroyed our country’s education system speak for themselves. Many of the things you’re listing are ideas and not policies (reduced discrimination, “any accountability”).

the funny part is you just listing policies you paid attention to because you didn't like them and then assuming this is all policies.

Here's the part I want to hear about: when exactly was the time "before policies destroyed our country's education system"? What exactly is it you want to go back to?

[Anonymous]

what a weird question to hammer on.

I'm from a family with many teachers, and have many teacher friends. So no, I wouldn't mind if my kid was a teacher. I'd expect them to understand the financial consequences of doing so, but that's true for any profession. I like teachers, generally, and often think they do good work. But I also grew up with a strong sense of "service to community". So my family members are fulfilled by their professions, often. I don't really hear them bitching a lot about parents. Mostly they get frustrated when kids don't have food at home, or when kids don't have coats. Things like that. Anyway, they like their jobs, even if perhaps they could have made more money in a different profession.

Also: the teachers I know are a wide range of private, public, charter, elementary, high school, college, etc. Universally, they are either already teaching in person or want to teach in person.

Also also: the ones with unions aren't universally supportive of their union leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Can anyone tell me what this argument is about and why we are supposed to hate state government workers? Is this a new libertarian talking point?

I know, right? It's a new one to me, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

What top college grads are looking for a government position or teacher position?

Until top students consider it a respected, well-paid profession, we are stuck with only a handful of passionate top students. The rest are the dregs.

Who on here actually dreams that their kid becomes a teacher?

I was a prior poster, and I said STATE government. Federal employees are paid better than state government employees.

I must have missed the post. I was referring back to this comment: "Teacher pay in this region aligns with the pay to other government employees with similar education."

Anyway, that's even worse. What top college grads are looking for a STATE government position? Zero.

Seriously. How much do you want teachers to be paid? More than all of the top State officials?

Do you want your kids spending all day with "state government workers"? Do you want your kids to become "state government workers"?

Yes. As with any employment arrangement, there are pros and cons. You have no idea how many superstars work in state government. They just aren't highly paid.

You want your kids to work for the state government?

DP. There are amazing people who work for state governments ... I had a HS friend whose dad's job was to measure snowpacks in the Sierras and assess seasonal weather/water trends. he basically skied and show-shoed all winter for his job. so yeah pretty cool!

Forestry careers are super cool regardless of employer.

I’m sure there are other cool jobs and lots of bright people, but generally top students are not gunning for state gov’t jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just googling around:

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (everyone): $53,175 (https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Entry-Level-Bachelors-Degree-Salary-in-Washington,DC)

Average entry-level pay in DC with a BA (teacher): $56,313 (https://dcps.dc.gov/node/1057802)

The entry level pay isn’t the problem, it’s the pay in the middle of the scale. How much is that teacher making after 5 or 10 years? Because a fed will get grade increases every year until they Max out their job series grade, then they can either go supervisor or try to move into another position with a higher ceiling. The job series for my husband’s former position tops out at a 13 but most go into supervisor 14/15 jobs after that. The usual job series is 7-9-11-12 and a good employee will hit 9 and 11 after 1 year each. So at the beginning of their 3rd year as a fed they’d be making 72k.

What top college grads are looking for a government position or teacher position?

Until top students consider it a respected, well-paid profession, we are stuck with only a handful of passionate top students. The rest are the dregs.

Who on here actually dreams that their kid becomes a teacher?

I was a prior poster, and I said STATE government. Federal employees are paid better than state government employees.

I must have missed the post. I was referring back to this comment: "Teacher pay in this region aligns with the pay to other government employees with similar education."

Anyway, that's even worse. What top college grads are looking for a STATE government position? Zero.

Seriously. How much do you want teachers to be paid? More than all of the top State officials?

Do you want your kids spending all day with "state government workers"? Do you want your kids to become "state government workers"?

Yes. As with any employment arrangement, there are pros and cons. You have no idea how many superstars work in state government. They just aren't highly paid.

You want your kids to work for the state government?

DP. There are amazing people who work for state governments ... I had a HS friend whose dad's job was to measure snowpacks in the Sierras and assess seasonal weather/water trends. he basically skied and show-shoed all winter for his job. so yeah pretty cool!

Forestry careers are super cool regardless of employer.

I’m sure there are other cool jobs and lots of bright people, but generally top students are not gunning for state gov’t jobs.

guys why tf are we talking about whether top students will go into forestry? do you remember the title of this thread? how have we gotten so far?

this is the worst game of telephone