Why don't people want to go to tj just because there are "too many" asians?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just TJ. I found the perspectives in these articles interesting:

https://psmag.com/news/ghosts-of-white-people-past-witnessing-white-flight-from-an-asian-ethnoburb

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1157&context=djclpp

Yep.. I recall a heated thread on the first article a while back which was eventually shut down. I made this point earlier.. If TJ was majority white, no one will be hollering about it and making sour grapes comments along the lines of "cutthroat culture, too difficult, too many asians", etc. They will never complain about "too many whites".

Like I also said, no one will ever shut down this school. They can dream. Only a fool would actually go about doing that and I don't such a Virginia Governor on the radar.

Here's the reality folks. Asians are here to stay. The typical immigrant wave loses their "special characteristic" in about 3 generations and tends to assume similar values and experience outcomes as the mean. We now have a country (India) that is now a key source of immigration which will continue to supply first-gen immigrants (who will produce TJ-aspiring or other magnet school aspiring kids) for decades to come. Most Indians also enter the country with high paying jobs unlike previous waves and don't necessarily "look up" to the whites as role models. Step up your game or step aside and move to the exburbs.

Just because a school is designated as a Governor's School doesn't mean it is the Govenor's school. I'm sorry no one explained that to you before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no one is making a compelling case that FCPS needs to have a TJ in 2020. The main justification seems to be that it used to be dominated by whites so we can't pull the plug on it now if it's dominated by Asians. But that still leaves unresolved whether most TJ students would do just as well at their base schools; whether having TJ degrades all the other high schools; and whether the small # of students who truly need something more than their base schools could offer could get that through dual enrollment at GMU.

We have some fresh thinkers on the new School Board and they should take a hard look at the benefits and costs.

The status quo: TJ is the number one high school in America. The crown jewel of the FCPS system. Now you go ahead and make "a compelling case" that we need to do away with TJ.

That argument assumes that the goal of a school system with 25 high and secondary schools is to have one school that stands out.

If MCPS created a single STEM magnet school that pulled hundreds of kids from Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, Walter Johnson and B-CC, as well as kids from other schools, that school would become the #1 school per US News, likely ahead of TJ. If a bunch of towns in Westchester County like Scarsdale, Chappaqua, Rye and Mamaroneck decided to form a regional magnet, it would become the #1 school.

Basically FCPS outsourced education policy to a Republican Board of Supervisors in the mid-80s, which decided that having a STEM magnet would be good for marketing. Any reputable school system of its size would perform a retrospective review to consider whether the educational and reputational benefits outweigh the costs. And the costs are clear: among other things, turning TJ into a magnet deprived that part of Fairfax County of a neighborhood school; having one magnet school is a brain drain that deprives other schools of some of their best students; and operating a school that is held out as the "crown jewel," yet systematically admits an insignificant number of non-Asian minority students, sends a strong message to black and Hispanic kids that FCPS doesn't see them as deserving access to the same resources as the Asian students and dwindling number of white students at TJ.

Conversely, a School Board consisting of self-interested parties whose own kids have attended TJ or cowards who are afraid to rock the boat would pretend that it has no responsibilities with respect to TJ other than re-up its status as a magnet school every year. That's what we've had recently, and no School Board member who just preserves the status quo should pretend for one minute that anyone thinks he or she really cares about "equity" within Fairfax County.

So what is the point of your argument? You're clearly implying that a magnet school concept is not ok for equality and we shouldn't have them in this country. So pray tell, what is your alternative solution for meeting the needs of the few kids who clearly need more than their neighborhood high school can provide, sometimes much more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no one is making a compelling case that FCPS needs to have a TJ in 2020. The main justification seems to be that it used to be dominated by whites so we can't pull the plug on it now if it's dominated by Asians. But that still leaves unresolved whether most TJ students would do just as well at their base schools; whether having TJ degrades all the other high schools; and whether the small # of students who truly need something more than their base schools could offer could get that through dual enrollment at GMU.

We have some fresh thinkers on the new School Board and they should take a hard look at the benefits and costs.

The status quo: TJ is the number one high school in America. The crown jewel of the FCPS system. Now you go ahead and make "a compelling case" that we need to do away with TJ.

That argument assumes that the goal of a school system with 25 high and secondary schools is to have one school that stands out.

If MCPS created a single STEM magnet school that pulled hundreds of kids from Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, Walter Johnson and B-CC, as well as kids from other schools, that school would become the #1 school per US News, likely ahead of TJ. If a bunch of towns in Westchester County like Scarsdale, Chappaqua, Rye and Mamaroneck decided to form a regional magnet, it would become the #1 school.

Basically FCPS outsourced education policy to a Republican Board of Supervisors in the mid-80s, which decided that having a STEM magnet would be good for marketing. Any reputable school system of its size would perform a retrospective review to consider whether the educational and reputational benefits outweigh the costs. And the costs are clear: among other things, turning TJ into a magnet deprived that part of Fairfax County of a neighborhood school; having one magnet school is a brain drain that deprives other schools of some of their best students; and operating a school that is held out as the "crown jewel," yet systematically admits an insignificant number of non-Asian minority students, sends a strong message to black and Hispanic kids that FCPS doesn't see them as deserving access to the same resources as the Asian students and dwindling number of white students at TJ.

Conversely, a School Board consisting of self-interested parties whose own kids have attended TJ or cowards who are afraid to rock the boat would pretend that it has no responsibilities with respect to TJ other than re-up its status as a magnet school every year. That's what we've had recently, and no School Board member who just preserves the status quo should pretend for one minute that anyone thinks he or she really cares about "equity" within Fairfax County.

So what is the point of your argument? You're clearly implying that a magnet school concept is not ok for equality and we shouldn't have them in this country. So pray tell, what is your alternative solution for meeting the needs of the few kids who clearly need more than their neighborhood high school can provide, sometimes much more?

The purpose of TJ is NOT a continuation of the AAP program. It is not meant to teach bored kids. It is a magnet for those passionate about STEM.

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that hundreds of cities and towns don’t have magnet programs at all. They survive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no one is making a compelling case that FCPS needs to have a TJ in 2020. The main justification seems to be that it used to be dominated by whites so we can't pull the plug on it now if it's dominated by Asians. But that still leaves unresolved whether most TJ students would do just as well at their base schools; whether having TJ degrades all the other high schools; and whether the small # of students who truly need something more than their base schools could offer could get that through dual enrollment at GMU.

We have some fresh thinkers on the new School Board and they should take a hard look at the benefits and costs.

The status quo: TJ is the number one high school in America. The crown jewel of the FCPS system. Now you go ahead and make "a compelling case" that we need to do away with TJ.

That argument assumes that the goal of a school system with 25 high and secondary schools is to have one school that stands out.

If MCPS created a single STEM magnet school that pulled hundreds of kids from Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, Walter Johnson and B-CC, as well as kids from other schools, that school would become the #1 school per US News, likely ahead of TJ. If a bunch of towns in Westchester County like Scarsdale, Chappaqua, Rye and Mamaroneck decided to form a regional magnet, it would become the #1 school.

Basically FCPS outsourced education policy to a Republican Board of Supervisors in the mid-80s, which decided that having a STEM magnet would be good for marketing. Any reputable school system of its size would perform a retrospective review to consider whether the educational and reputational benefits outweigh the costs. And the costs are clear: among other things, turning TJ into a magnet deprived that part of Fairfax County of a neighborhood school; having one magnet school is a brain drain that deprives other schools of some of their best students; and operating a school that is held out as the "crown jewel," yet systematically admits an insignificant number of non-Asian minority students, sends a strong message to black and Hispanic kids that FCPS doesn't see them as deserving access to the same resources as the Asian students and dwindling number of white students at TJ.

Conversely, a School Board consisting of self-interested parties whose own kids have attended TJ or cowards who are afraid to rock the boat would pretend that it has no responsibilities with respect to TJ other than re-up its status as a magnet school every year. That's what we've had recently, and no School Board member who just preserves the status quo should pretend for one minute that anyone thinks he or she really cares about "equity" within Fairfax County.

So what is the point of your argument? You're clearly implying that a magnet school concept is not ok for equality and we shouldn't have them in this country. So pray tell, what is your alternative solution for meeting the needs of the few kids who clearly need more than their neighborhood high school can provide, sometimes much more?

The purpose of TJ is NOT a continuation of the AAP program. It is not meant to teach bored kids. It is a magnet for those passionate about STEM.

Exactly, that's why shutting it down would be very stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no one is making a compelling case that FCPS needs to have a TJ in 2020. The main justification seems to be that it used to be dominated by whites so we can't pull the plug on it now if it's dominated by Asians. But that still leaves unresolved whether most TJ students would do just as well at their base schools; whether having TJ degrades all the other high schools; and whether the small # of students who truly need something more than their base schools could offer could get that through dual enrollment at GMU.

We have some fresh thinkers on the new School Board and they should take a hard look at the benefits and costs.

The status quo: TJ is the number one high school in America. The crown jewel of the FCPS system. Now you go ahead and make "a compelling case" that we need to do away with TJ.

That argument assumes that the goal of a school system with 25 high and secondary schools is to have one school that stands out.

If MCPS created a single STEM magnet school that pulled hundreds of kids from Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, Walter Johnson and B-CC, as well as kids from other schools, that school would become the #1 school per US News, likely ahead of TJ. If a bunch of towns in Westchester County like Scarsdale, Chappaqua, Rye and Mamaroneck decided to form a regional magnet, it would become the #1 school.

Basically FCPS outsourced education policy to a Republican Board of Supervisors in the mid-80s, which decided that having a STEM magnet would be good for marketing. Any reputable school system of its size would perform a retrospective review to consider whether the educational and reputational benefits outweigh the costs. And the costs are clear: among other things, turning TJ into a magnet deprived that part of Fairfax County of a neighborhood school; having one magnet school is a brain drain that deprives other schools of some of their best students; and operating a school that is held out as the "crown jewel," yet systematically admits an insignificant number of non-Asian minority students, sends a strong message to black and Hispanic kids that FCPS doesn't see them as deserving access to the same resources as the Asian students and dwindling number of white students at TJ.

Conversely, a School Board consisting of self-interested parties whose own kids have attended TJ or cowards who are afraid to rock the boat would pretend that it has no responsibilities with respect to TJ other than re-up its status as a magnet school every year. That's what we've had recently, and no School Board member who just preserves the status quo should pretend for one minute that anyone thinks he or she really cares about "equity" within Fairfax County.

So what is the point of your argument? You're clearly implying that a magnet school concept is not ok for equality and we shouldn't have them in this country. So pray tell, what is your alternative solution for meeting the needs of the few kids who clearly need more than their neighborhood high school can provide, sometimes much more?

Glad to see you acknowledge it's only a "few kids" who need something more than their base school can provide and, even in those situations, your assessment of what a base school could provide is based on what those schools - currently denied the resources and attention lavished on TJ - are now providing.

People wrap themselves up in the rhetoric of special education advocates to suggest that TJ kids would suffer in abject misery, with their basic needs unmet, unless they are able to attend a special magnet school. It's beyond absurd.

[Anonymous]

No grads have become household names out of TJ. Not a reliable boost for college admissions. Rampant cheating. Mental health struggles. Just what I’ve heard.

[Anonymous]

Vladimir Tenev

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Keep in mind that hundreds of cities and towns don’t have magnet programs at all. They survive

Africans survive too. Why don’t you move there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No grads have become household names out of TJ. Not a reliable boost for college admissions. Rampant cheating. Mental health struggles. Just what I’ve heard.

Of course it’s just what you’ve heard because it’s false and fabricated by liars like you to put dirt on TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no one is making a compelling case that FCPS needs to have a TJ in 2020. The main justification seems to be that it used to be dominated by whites so we can't pull the plug on it now if it's dominated by Asians. But that still leaves unresolved whether most TJ students would do just as well at their base schools; whether having TJ degrades all the other high schools; and whether the small # of students who truly need something more than their base schools could offer could get that through dual enrollment at GMU.

We have some fresh thinkers on the new School Board and they should take a hard look at the benefits and costs.

The status quo: TJ is the number one high school in America. The crown jewel of the FCPS system. Now you go ahead and make "a compelling case" that we need to do away with TJ.

That argument assumes that the goal of a school system with 25 high and secondary schools is to have one school that stands out.

If MCPS created a single STEM magnet school that pulled hundreds of kids from Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, Walter Johnson and B-CC, as well as kids from other schools, that school would become the #1 school per US News, likely ahead of TJ. If a bunch of towns in Westchester County like Scarsdale, Chappaqua, Rye and Mamaroneck decided to form a regional magnet, it would become the #1 school.

Basically FCPS outsourced education policy to a Republican Board of Supervisors in the mid-80s, which decided that having a STEM magnet would be good for marketing. Any reputable school system of its size would perform a retrospective review to consider whether the educational and reputational benefits outweigh the costs. And the costs are clear: among other things, turning TJ into a magnet deprived that part of Fairfax County of a neighborhood school; having one magnet school is a brain drain that deprives other schools of some of their best students; and operating a school that is held out as the "crown jewel," yet systematically admits an insignificant number of non-Asian minority students, sends a strong message to black and Hispanic kids that FCPS doesn't see them as deserving access to the same resources as the Asian students and dwindling number of white students at TJ.

Conversely, a School Board consisting of self-interested parties whose own kids have attended TJ or cowards who are afraid to rock the boat would pretend that it has no responsibilities with respect to TJ other than re-up its status as a magnet school every year. That's what we've had recently, and no School Board member who just preserves the status quo should pretend for one minute that anyone thinks he or she really cares about "equity" within Fairfax County.

So what is the point of your argument? You're clearly implying that a magnet school concept is not ok for equality and we shouldn't have them in this country. So pray tell, what is your alternative solution for meeting the needs of the few kids who clearly need more than their neighborhood high school can provide, sometimes much more?

Glad to see you acknowledge it's only a "few kids" who need something more than their base school can provide and, even in those situations, your assessment of what a base school could provide is based on what those schools - currently denied the resources and attention lavished on TJ - are now providing.

People wrap themselves up in the rhetoric of special education advocates to suggest that TJ kids would suffer in abject misery, with their basic needs unmet, unless they are able to attend a special magnet school. It's beyond absurd.

I'll tell you what's absurd, the sheer mediocrity of the area high schools, with their shallow content that pass off as "AP", and their ridiculous amount of incentives and lavish amount of money spent on sports and sport programs... that's special interests right there, when sports are more important than learning. Sure, while there is some cheating at TJ, while there are bad apples who don't belong there, yet on the whole it is a culture of excellence and you cannot even begin to compare it to the other schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The real game changers were brought up in different culture. People like Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Sergey Brin were not valedictorians with perfect SAR scores.

For the gazillionth, Bill gates got 1550+ on the sat and Steve Jobs got a pretty high score too. Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg (who also got excellent scores) came from pretty affluent families.

Why is it that when a white person is smart and exceptional, it is innate and respected; whereas, when an Asian person is smart and exceptional, the assumption is they're prepped and unimaginative robots? Some people are such prejudiced racists. Sometimes I wish we could all just be with our own kind so that we won't have to deal with the pain of this kind of thinking.

Because many affluent whites believe they should have more privilege due to their status without putting in work and effort. Apparently, living with 1-2 generations of affluence made them forget that their grandparents had to work hard to become successful. And so they think that since they're in the UMC or higher, they should mostly just get a free pass on life.

Jobs, Brin and Gates are no different from the TJ kids. Jobs was building lasers in High Schools when no one had even heard of them. Sergei Brin was a "normal" immigrant kid, no different from anyone at TJ. UMDCP (Math & CS!) and on to Stanford. He would have likely gone to TJ if they lived in VA. Bill Gates had rich parents who started a computer club at his school and bought the computer for that school. He was also a National Merit Scholar (so were Jeff Bezos and Steve Ballmer). What's so different about them compared to the kids going to TJ? Are you trying to compare them to TJ alum from around the same time? In that case, you are comparing them to a mostly White cohort. Wait another 20 years to compare them to an Asian cohort.

Where everyone drops the ball (in every country) is how they address opportunity for the under-represented. Statistically speaking intelligence is the same across all human groups (to the poster who normally shows to claim that European Jews have a higher IQ.. STOP). In a randomly selected group of 1000 whites, hispanics, blacks, asians and Indians the IQ distribution (I know the IQ test is not perfect so don't show up to point that out) would be about the same. The top 20 kids from any of these groups would do equally well at a school like TJ. What is missing is the encouragement/desire - parent and the child, exposure to the opportunities that make STEM interesting to the kid, and the culture that celebrates a STEM interest and not talks down on that as "Nerdy". Also important is the time commitment to support a kid at TJ, the long drives for sports and EC, extra hours spent on study, etc. All of this takes time and costs money. Why not fight for tax $$ to address that?

Fix all that first and EVERYONE will be well represented at TJ.

For the other Asians who are getting "offended" by the asian-bashing here. Don't GAF. Just do your thing. If your kid makes it to TJ, great! If not, focus on maximizing GPA and the "right" ECs at the base HS to get in the appropriate college for your kid. Let's laugh all the way to the bank while other idiots post about closing down TJ.. You will see the same "sour grapes" posts 20 years from now

I haven’t read The Bell Curve but I hear the IQ distribution is far from even as per the authors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no one is making a compelling case that FCPS needs to have a TJ in 2020. The main justification seems to be that it used to be dominated by whites so we can't pull the plug on it now if it's dominated by Asians. But that still leaves unresolved whether most TJ students would do just as well at their base schools; whether having TJ degrades all the other high schools; and whether the small # of students who truly need something more than their base schools could offer could get that through dual enrollment at GMU.

We have some fresh thinkers on the new School Board and they should take a hard look at the benefits and costs.

The status quo: TJ is the number one high school in America. The crown jewel of the FCPS system. Now you go ahead and make "a compelling case" that we need to do away with TJ.

That argument assumes that the goal of a school system with 25 high and secondary schools is to have one school that stands out.

If MCPS created a single STEM magnet school that pulled hundreds of kids from Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, Walter Johnson and B-CC, as well as kids from other schools, that school would become the #1 school per US News, likely ahead of TJ. If a bunch of towns in Westchester County like Scarsdale, Chappaqua, Rye and Mamaroneck decided to form a regional magnet, it would become the #1 school.

Basically FCPS outsourced education policy to a Republican Board of Supervisors in the mid-80s, which decided that having a STEM magnet would be good for marketing. Any reputable school system of its size would perform a retrospective review to consider whether the educational and reputational benefits outweigh the costs. And the costs are clear: among other things, turning TJ into a magnet deprived that part of Fairfax County of a neighborhood school; having one magnet school is a brain drain that deprives other schools of some of their best students; and operating a school that is held out as the "crown jewel," yet systematically admits an insignificant number of non-Asian minority students, sends a strong message to black and Hispanic kids that FCPS doesn't see them as deserving access to the same resources as the Asian students and dwindling number of white students at TJ.

Conversely, a School Board consisting of self-interested parties whose own kids have attended TJ or cowards who are afraid to rock the boat would pretend that it has no responsibilities with respect to TJ other than re-up its status as a magnet school every year. That's what we've had recently, and no School Board member who just preserves the status quo should pretend for one minute that anyone thinks he or she really cares about "equity" within Fairfax County.

So what is the point of your argument? You're clearly implying that a magnet school concept is not ok for equality and we shouldn't have them in this country. So pray tell, what is your alternative solution for meeting the needs of the few kids who clearly need more than their neighborhood high school can provide, sometimes much more?

Glad to see you acknowledge it's only a "few kids" who need something more than their base school can provide and, even in those situations, your assessment of what a base school could provide is based on what those schools - currently denied the resources and attention lavished on TJ - are now providing.

People wrap themselves up in the rhetoric of special education advocates to suggest that TJ kids would suffer in abject misery, with their basic needs unmet, unless they are able to attend a special magnet school. It's beyond absurd.

I'll tell you what's absurd, the sheer mediocrity of the area high schools, with their shallow content that pass off as "AP", and their ridiculous amount of incentives and lavish amount of money spent on sports and sport programs... that's special interests right there, when sports are more important than learning. Sure, while there is some cheating at TJ, while there are bad apples who don't belong there, yet on the whole it is a culture of excellence and you cannot even begin to compare it to the other schools.

The assertion that TJ is “excellent” while every other high school (educating well over 96% of county students) is “mediocre” is precisely why TJ needs to be shut down. Why on earth should FCPS operate a school that largely serves a bunch of arrogant, condescending jerks?

[Anonymous]

There isn’t a more racist group of parents and students than at TJ. Poke them in the slightest and it all surfaces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But no one is making a compelling case that FCPS needs to have a TJ in 2020. The main justification seems to be that it used to be dominated by whites so we can't pull the plug on it now if it's dominated by Asians. But that still leaves unresolved whether most TJ students would do just as well at their base schools; whether having TJ degrades all the other high schools; and whether the small # of students who truly need something more than their base schools could offer could get that through dual enrollment at GMU.

We have some fresh thinkers on the new School Board and they should take a hard look at the benefits and costs.

The status quo: TJ is the number one high school in America. The crown jewel of the FCPS system. Now you go ahead and make "a compelling case" that we need to do away with TJ.

That argument assumes that the goal of a school system with 25 high and secondary schools is to have one school that stands out.

If MCPS created a single STEM magnet school that pulled hundreds of kids from Whitman, Churchill, Wootton, Walter Johnson and B-CC, as well as kids from other schools, that school would become the #1 school per US News, likely ahead of TJ. If a bunch of towns in Westchester County like Scarsdale, Chappaqua, Rye and Mamaroneck decided to form a regional magnet, it would become the #1 school.

Basically FCPS outsourced education policy to a Republican Board of Supervisors in the mid-80s, which decided that having a STEM magnet would be good for marketing. Any reputable school system of its size would perform a retrospective review to consider whether the educational and reputational benefits outweigh the costs. And the costs are clear: among other things, turning TJ into a magnet deprived that part of Fairfax County of a neighborhood school; having one magnet school is a brain drain that deprives other schools of some of their best students; and operating a school that is held out as the "crown jewel," yet systematically admits an insignificant number of non-Asian minority students, sends a strong message to black and Hispanic kids that FCPS doesn't see them as deserving access to the same resources as the Asian students and dwindling number of white students at TJ.

Conversely, a School Board consisting of self-interested parties whose own kids have attended TJ or cowards who are afraid to rock the boat would pretend that it has no responsibilities with respect to TJ other than re-up its status as a magnet school every year. That's what we've had recently, and no School Board member who just preserves the status quo should pretend for one minute that anyone thinks he or she really cares about "equity" within Fairfax County.

Some fair comments here, all well and good, but where's your "compelling case" for doing away with it?