School Boundaries and "One Fairfax"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They should be focusing on preservation of the crown jewel schools not decimation. Keep Langley great, fix over crowding in McLean, expand and renovate McLean. Those in the poor schools don't have issues being in trailers and old run down facilities, they are lucky to learn English, get free food and day-care.

Please stop trolling.

Even if we were all callous enough not to care about recent immigrants, illegal or not, all of those schools also have American children in them.

I think 1st PP was being facetious and pretending that those were her views. No one is that callous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a few years when Langley will be overenrolled because they moved McLean kids to Langley, and Herndon will be underenrolled due the renovations they are planning. This is all silly to argue about now.

Insider here. Not true, though they probably should move McLean and Marshall feeders to Langley. Herndon will look a lot like Justice. When you look at elementary projections, the schools even with an addition will likely be a few hundred over capacity (and we are talking about 2,600 kids here at capacity).

I am giving up on this thread. People want to complain and dicker about Langley but the problem is much bigger. It's not as bad as Arlington (though I work with people who worked there and had horror stories), but if that is what people want, there isn't much for someone like me who works in a cubicle analyzing population data and putting them into spreadsheets is going to do to convince you all that you're short sighted, you're wrong and you are probably hurting your own children because these huge schools, while they provide some benefits) are problematic on many levels.

Continue fighting about nonsense...

NP here.

I actually love spreadsheets. I love data. I would love to see numbers.

Personally, I think that a lot of parents think that they are making their kids education great in their homogenous schools. But study after study shows diversity increases brain activity and creativity.

So show the numbers. Or point us to the data. It’s better than all of the other hot air here.

Most of those types of studies look at ethnic and racial diversity- not economic diversity. None of the schools in FCPS are homogenous based on those parameters and only two lack economic diversity (TJ and Langley). All are diverse in many ways.

[Anonymous]

This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

That’s the not the only issue. Other issues include (1) the fact that building a new high school will consume a very large percentage of the capital expenditures for facilities while the school is being built, which delays the renovation of other schools; and (2) there has long been some hope that a new school won’t really be needed if they build additions at South Lakes, Herndon, Oakton and, soon, Madison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

That’s the not the only issue. Other issues include (1) the fact that building a new high school will consume a very large percentage of the capital expenditures for facilities while the school is being built, which delays the renovation of other schools; and (2) there has long been some hope that a new school won’t really be needed if they build additions at South Lakes, Herndon, Oakton and, soon, Madison.

But why should you hope for that? The population in that part of the county is growing. There is space to build, continuing to expand schools in closer in parts of the county isn't the solution to growth in the western part of the county. Traffic isn't going to get better in this area, 30-40 minute bus rides, which are inconvenient now, given a few years will become 1 to 1.5 hour bus rides. It isn't realistic. The population in the closer in neighborhoods will continue to expand as well, with infill, but not at the rate that it will in western parts of the county. To argue that expanding Oakton and Madison is going to fix anything long term, is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

Ah, so, racism and classism. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

You do know where the largest amounts of kids that selected from TJ come from, don't you? A place that you think is not "peaches and cream."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

That’s the not the only issue. Other issues include (1) the fact that building a new high school will consume a very large percentage of the capital expenditures for facilities while the school is being built, which delays the renovation of other schools; and (2) there has long been some hope that a new school won’t really be needed if they build additions at South Lakes, Herndon, Oakton and, soon, Madison.

But why should you hope for that? The population in that part of the county is growing. There is space to build, continuing to expand schools in closer in parts of the county isn't the solution to growth in the western part of the county. Traffic isn't going to get better in this area, 30-40 minute bus rides, which are inconvenient now, given a few years will become 1 to 1.5 hour bus rides. It isn't realistic. The population in the closer in neighborhoods will continue to expand as well, with infill, but not at the rate that it will in western parts of the county. To argue that expanding Oakton and Madison is going to fix anything long term, is ridiculous.

I didn’t mean to suggest I’m responsible for those decisions. Only sharing my perception of the thought process. There may be space to build, but FCPS apparently hasn’t acquired the land, the cost will be significant, and it will delay the renovation of other schools. And the elementary school enrollments are actually expected to decline over the next five years, which leads to the hope that, if FCPS can just get over the hump (the expected increase in the high school enrollment over the next five years), they won’t need to build another high school.

But, of course, they keep referring to a “future western HS” in each CIP that comes out and, at some point, they will have to fish or cut bait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

You do know where the largest amounts of kids that selected from TJ come from, don't you? A place that you think is not "peaches and cream."

DP here. The McLean HS pyramid sends more kids to TJ than any other pyramid in FCPS.

The PP is right that drawing the boundaries for a new western high school and the related changes to other school boundaries will be controversial. It will probably reduce the ESOL/FARMS rates at Herndon, but some Oakton families might be angry if they were reassigned to a new school that is closer but has a higher FARMS rate. And the Great Falls families will object if they get moved to Herndon. Fun times ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

You do know where the largest amounts of kids that selected from TJ come from, don't you? A place that you think is not "peaches and cream."

DP here. The McLean HS pyramid sends more kids to TJ than any other pyramid in FCPS.

The PP is right that drawing the boundaries for a new western high school and the related changes to other school boundaries will be controversial. It will probably reduce the ESOL/FARMS rates at Herndon, but some Oakton families might be angry if they were reassigned to a new school that is closer but has a higher FARMS rate. And the Great Falls families will object if they get moved to Herndon. Fun times ahead.

Do you mean Carson? Because Carson feeds a lot of different high schools, including South Lakes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

You do know where the largest amounts of kids that selected from TJ come from, don't you? A place that you think is not "peaches and cream."

DP here. The McLean HS pyramid sends more kids to TJ than any other pyramid in FCPS.

The PP is right that drawing the boundaries for a new western high school and the related changes to other school boundaries will be controversial. It will probably reduce the ESOL/FARMS rates at Herndon, but some Oakton families might be angry if they were reassigned to a new school that is closer but has a higher FARMS rate. And the Great Falls families will object if they get moved to Herndon. Fun times ahead.

Do you mean Carson? Because Carson feeds a lot of different high schools, including South Lakes.

It’s true that Carson MS sends more kids to TJ than other middle schools but that's because there are fewer AAP centers in that part of the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

You do know where the largest amounts of kids that selected from TJ come from, don't you? A place that you think is not "peaches and cream."

DP here. The McLean HS pyramid sends more kids to TJ than any other pyramid in FCPS.

The PP is right that drawing the boundaries for a new western high school and the related changes to other school boundaries will be controversial. It will probably reduce the ESOL/FARMS rates at Herndon, but some Oakton families might be angry if they were reassigned to a new school that is closer but has a higher FARMS rate. And the Great Falls families will object if they get moved to Herndon. Fun times ahead.

Do you mean Carson? Because Carson feeds a lot of different high schools, including South Lakes.

It’s true that Carson MS sends more kids to TJ than other middle schools but that's because there are fewer AAP centers in that part of the county.

Rocky Run does okay, too. So, I would say the Chantilly pyramid does pretty well, too. Many of the Carson kids who go to TJ are from the Chantilly pyramid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be incredibly naive because I am new to learning about these issues (live in DC and thinking about where to move in the next few years) - it sounds like building the new high school would go a long way in alleviating some issues. So why isn't that a priority?

Because if they build that new school, then a lot of boundaries will get shifted west, no one wants to be shifted west. The schools in the western part of the county reflect the population in that part of the county. Hint... it isn't peaches and cream.

You do know where the largest amounts of kids that selected from TJ come from, don't you? A place that you think is not "peaches and cream."

DP here. The McLean HS pyramid sends more kids to TJ than any other pyramid in FCPS.

The PP is right that drawing the boundaries for a new western high school and the related changes to other school boundaries will be controversial. It will probably reduce the ESOL/FARMS rates at Herndon, but some Oakton families might be angry if they were reassigned to a new school that is closer but has a higher FARMS rate. And the Great Falls families will object if they get moved to Herndon. Fun times ahead.

Do you mean Carson? Because Carson feeds a lot of different high schools, including South Lakes.

It’s true that Carson MS sends more kids to TJ than other middle schools but that's because there are fewer AAP centers in that part of the county.

Rocky Run does okay, too. So, I would say the Chantilly pyramid does pretty well, too. Many of the Carson kids who go to TJ are from the Chantilly pyramid.

In order of the base pyramids sending students to TJ, the top six last year were McLean, Chantilly, Oakton, Langley, Westfield and Woodson. So clearly there are a lot of kids coming out of the AAP programs in western Fairfax, as well as from the greater Great Falls/McLean area and the middle of the county.

The areas that feed into Herndon HS send about 1/6th the number of kids to TJ as a McLean, Chantilly or Oakton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boundary changes are hard because people have made long term financial decisions (like purchasing a home) based on school boundaries. It's not so simple to just change these. I'm in a neighborhood that I'm pretty sure would stay as it's currently structured, simply because of proximity to the schools we're assigned to, but I really feel for people who might face changes. There are very few situations where you'd be getting a better deal with boundary changes. You're talking about moving people who have chosen to pay more for a house to be in a better school zone to a worse school zone and changing their housing value drastically. Not a good solution.

I think they should work harder to improve the schools as they exist. We are at an elementary school that is only 46% white and 40% FARMs with a high ESL rate. My kids are white upper middle class and we love this school. The principal and teachers are excellent. There are challenges, of course, but the wider community supports the school as well (churches help with food over weekends and summer, coat drives, etc.). There are ways to meet a school's needs where it is instead of trying to change the student population. I also think there's an element of racism in the thought that adding "white rich kids" will improve a school.

Or course it does. People base their views of school on test scores ("good" schools) and test scores are directly correlated with socioeconomic status. The teachers at "top" schools aka schools with very low FARMS rates are no better than teachers at a high FARMS school. They just have a student population that comes in more ready to learn and with every possible advantage given to them. If you moved all the student from a "good" school to a "bad" school while keeping the staff the same the "bad" school would change overnight and suddenly have top test scores.