Subtle signs of class

[Anonymous]

7:06 and not to belabor the point, but it's got to be said. I hope the "DOCTOR Maya Angelou" poster isn't calling her white colleagues Jennifer and Dave and her black colleagues Dr Parker and Dr Smith based on her perception that it's a "custom" (her word) among black people. I certainly won't do that.

[Anonymous]

OP here, surprised this thread is so long. Thank you to the handful of people who actually responded to the questions. We seem to have strayed into money and race discussions.

Since so many people addressed what they view as signs of rich people, and we try again with examples of other class indicators? What signals middle or low class in a home, summing the house/location is otherwise common?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.

Kids have surnames for names.

They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.

Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.

Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.

This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.

My child has multiple English surnames for middle names (they're all family names).

So only white people can be upper class?

It's almost like class is one of multiple ways powerful white people have justified holding on to power historically

It seems like a curiously outdated criteria in an increasingly global society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Small kitchen, lots of guest rooms, old American cars with some dirt on them. Persian rugs obtained by an older relative whist traveling in Iraq or Yemen in the early 1900s. Vacations include things like helicopter trips to hunt moose or elk, or expeditions on camel with Bedouins. Art includes antiquities, framed handwritten poems signed by Maya Angelou, and mounted heads of animals killed while hunting.

This is mighty specific

I can be more general. The rich prefer their houses out of sight, either by an out of the way location or set back behind trees or a high wall of shrubbery. Although a gate or other structural features might be visible, the house will be primarily surrounded by natural features. The house itself will be made of high quality materials (brick, marble, etc) and there is a strong preference for old wood flooring. The house will retain original features, and great care is taken to retain original finishings. The house is built with entertainment in mind, so the larger rooms are for dining and socializing. Since the rich are served, the kitchen is small, spartan, and outdated.

The rich enjoy an occasional elaborate meal, but usually eat sparingly and tend toward healthy comfort food. Lunch may consist of a tomato soup with fresh cream and basil, or a salad. Breakfast is a bowl of oatmeal or eggs. Dinner may be larger but usually classic- a pan seared steak, cooked in butter. Or grilled salmon. Grilled veggies on the side.

Alcohol abounds but is, like food, driven by comfort and familiarity. The table wine tends to be the same at each meal and is a familiar brand of high quality wine (caymus, opus one) or more likely, a boutique wine with qhom the family has developed a client like relationship and from whom the family buys in bulk. No sweet alcohol, no fruity cocktails, and absolutely no wines made from fruits other than grapes.

The rich dress in layers and the layers are colorful. A rich man does not use a white undershirt in his off time, he wears something more striking. He gets extra points with multiple layers. His entire wardrobe is built for xomfort- this is seen mostly in the exceptional quality of the materials, which are natural.

The rich appreciate authenticity in all forms. They want to look a fish in the eye when they eat it, they want their tacos from a truck where all the day laborers eat. They want to learn salsa dancing while in their summer in Colombia and experience the exhilarating humiliation of a Turkish bathhouse. Therefore they do not prefer to interact only with other rich people because that would deprive them of the fullness of the human condition. A Michelin rated restaurant might have more reliable quality, but the rich love neighborhood gems even more.

The rich love hygge. They love fire and candles, water glistening in the moonlight, and music played slightly too softly.

The rich pursue education in order to improve their conversation skills, not to learn a skill. Unless the skill is fun, like being a pilot or an archeologist. Under no circumstances does a rich man adorn his car with a bumper sticker of his alma mater.

I agree with this. Also organic food. Although they never talk about it. There is so much the rich never talk about.

[Anonymous]

You know the song “if loving you is wrong I don’t want to be right?” (Oldie) If volunteering is required I don’t want to have class.

[Anonymous]

The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

[Anonymous]

OP --- Back in the late 1980s John Malloy wrote books for people in the workplace about what colors/clothes/attitudes upper class people had. It was like a bible about how to achieve UMC status by emulating the "haves". It had a lot of spot on advice. I remember one example...low class people don't raise their chins, they wear black raincoats, they have bad teeth and bad grammar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, didn't follow this thread, but classy always means rich? Can a UMC or MC or poor be classy?

“Genteel poverty” is definitely a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Small kitchen, lots of guest rooms, old American cars with some dirt on them. Persian rugs obtained by an older relative whist traveling in Iraq or Yemen in the early 1900s. Vacations include things like helicopter trips to hunt moose or elk, or expeditions on camel with Bedouins. Art includes antiquities, framed handwritten poems signed by Maya Angelou, and mounted heads of animals killed while hunting.

You mean, Doctor Maya Angelou?

-Opfra

The pp provides a subtle class signal. The rich, and even the UMC, are not impressed that she's a doctor. They are impressed that she's Maya Angelou.

It's less about being impressed and more about showing respect. I read it more as a subtle race signal. I grew up around white people who would refer to Martin Luther King Jr., Maya Angelou, etc. Now I work among black people who always refer to Dr. King, Dr. Maya Angelou, etc. You can bet I use the titles people have earned now.

Where I work, a little under half of my colleagues have doctorates. No one refers to anyone as doctor unless they are being introduced as a panelist at a conference or something similar. We had one guy that referred to himself as doctor. His doctorate was from the least prestigious school compared to everyone else, and the fact that he insisted on being called doctor marked him as being "less than" class-wise. So, pp, it's your view fhat calling people doctor is a respect issue, and you make the somewhat absurd claim that not doing so is also racist, but I would argue that no one calls Albert Einstein "Dr Albert Einstein" nor do we refer to Henry Kissinger as "Dr Henry Kissinger". Like them, both MLK and Angelou need no honorific introduction to command respect.

Maya Angelou didn’t even have a real doctorate. Only “honorary” doctorates.

[Anonymous]

The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

This one is interesting. I think it is true too. I personally want my kids to go to college, but would not scoff at the choice if it was a good match for their interests/strengths.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

totally ridiculous, mixes all kinds of stuff. the problem starts Wirh MC - which encompasses with HHI from 60k to a million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

so they can’t afford Montessori but their homes look like pottery barn catalogues.

[Anonymous]

This thread is so ridiculous.

It's just stereotypes about Old Money WASPs which is a culture that has mostly died out and for good reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

Stuff like this is why DCUM people think they are "middle class" with HHIs of 750k +.