The Other VA publics: CNU, GM, JMU, Radford, ODU, UMW, VCU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Big companies still go to all of these schools

After your first job no one cares where you went to school anyway

I went to JMU 10 years ago and I had a lot of fun

Now I make over 6 figures and I would have done just as well as any of the other colleges on this list

Again, we know that. There's nothing wrong with JMU. I'm just saying that if you're from NOVA and truly are a borderline UVA admit, as was my daughter, it can be a let down to have to go there. Her high school probably sent two or three dozen kids there, including some good friends, none of whom performed as well as she did academically.

2017-2018 Freshman Enrollment from Fairfax County

GMU - 1,031
VT - 959
UVA - 680
JMU - 600

More likely to run into kids from your same high school at UVA than JMU.

I'm not the poster who said JMU is high school 2.0. The point is that our daughter was a better student than the two or three dozen of her classmates who went to JMU, and she wanted something better for her efforts.

I'm the poster who said people might go OOS to avoid high school 2.0. I didn't mean literally that you'll see the same folks as those in your high school all the time, but rather the population will reflect a lot students with similar backgrounds as you knew in high school. I actually think this is MORE true at UVA, GMU and W&M which are more NOVA-heavy than JMU.

Blah blah blah. Here are the actual numbers:

UVA: out of state 33 percent
JMU: out of state 27 percent

UVA from Fairfax/Loudoun/Arlington: 26 percent
JMU: 23 percent

So, both more out of state at UVA and more from NOVA. A wash out. And those OOS students at UVA are wicked smart -- a lot smarter than what you'll find at JMU.

I think I'm not being clear. My argument was that for some students going to an in-state school feels like high school 2.0--compared to venturing out to the midwest, south, or west coast--or even just another eastern state. In my initial post, I suggested that a student who didn't get into UVA or W&M might go out of state over JMU, not because a school is so much better but because one factor they consider is that an out-of-state school feels more different than high school. When people asked what I meant by that, thinking I was saying something specific about JMU being particularly "high school 2.0" -- I was clarifying that it was more about any in-state public being more similar to one's high school than an OOS school. In VA for many public schools, about a 1/4 or more of students come from NOVA and that can give it a certain familiar feel. (For instance, I've heard this about W&M--a feeling that it's NOVA heavy). I'm not saying anything about how smart anyone is or how amazing a school is. My kid will opt to go to UVA or W&M if he gets in (his stats of 4.3/1400 put him in the running for both--but not sure thing). But if he doesn't get in, he wants to go out of state (there are places where he's likely to get merit aid) just for the experience of being in another state over going to JMU or VTech. We're able to provide 30k/yr wherever he goes so he has to figure out how to make the financial part work.

Thanks for clarifying. Now I understand, and I totally agree. In fact, that was my daughter's thinking in a nutshell.

And the reason you’re so invested in touting your daughter’s/UVa’s superiority on a thread specifically about the other Virginia state schools is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what percentage of in-state (or more specifically, FCPS) students accepted by UVa choose not to go? And, does anyone know the main reason(s)? Cost?

Anecdotally, I know of a handful of families who preferred their daughters live at home and attend GMU even after getting into UVA/W&M. I am not sure that cost of room and board played a role on top of tradition/cultural expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread really feels like it's deteriorated to "mine is bigger than yours" quality.

That's not the intent. The intent is honesty on an anonymous board. No kid with UVA caliber stats wants to go to JMU. Or VCU. Or GMU. You get the picture. They just plain don't. You need a very strong record for UVA, and the kids who work hard enough (or are blessed enough intellectually) to accumulate that record are simply aiming higher than the other schools. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the other schools; it's just reality.

But actually, I said earlier that my daughter prefers JMU and is not interested in UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread really feels like it's deteriorated to "mine is bigger than yours" quality.

That's not the intent. The intent is honesty on an anonymous board. No kid with UVA caliber stats wants to go to JMU. Or VCU. Or GMU. You get the picture. They just plain don't. You need a very strong record for UVA, and the kids who work hard enough (or are blessed enough intellectually) to accumulate that record are simply aiming higher than the other schools. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the other schools; it's just reality.

But actually, I said earlier that my daughter prefers JMU and is not interested in UVA.

Respectfully, come back here and say that after she's applied to and gotten into both. One year, during a trip to OBX, we proposed making a quick stop at William & Mary just to check out the campus. One of ours kids (not the UVA one) was a entering senior year at the time, but refused to make the stop, saying there was no reason to because there was no interest. But we knew better -- the real issue was fear of liking the school and not getting in. College admissions are tough for kids. I'm sure you know your daughter very well and that she's a great kid, but it takes a truly extraordinary kid around here not to get all worked up, anxious -- and, at times, defeatist -- about the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread really feels like it's deteriorated to "mine is bigger than yours" quality.

That's not the intent. The intent is honesty on an anonymous board. No kid with UVA caliber stats wants to go to JMU. Or VCU. Or GMU. You get the picture. They just plain don't. You need a very strong record for UVA, and the kids who work hard enough (or are blessed enough intellectually) to accumulate that record are simply aiming higher than the other schools. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the other schools; it's just reality.

But actually, I said earlier that my daughter prefers JMU and is not interested in UVA.

Respectfully, come back here and say that after she's applied to and gotten into both. One year, during a trip to OBX, we proposed making a quick stop at William & Mary just to check out the campus. One of ours kids (not the UVA one) was a entering senior year at the time, but refused to make the stop, saying there was no reason to because there was no interest. But we knew better -- the real issue was fear of liking the school and not getting in. College admissions are tough for kids. I'm sure you know your daughter very well and that she's a great kid, but it takes a truly extraordinary kid around here not to get all worked up, anxious -- and, at times, defeatist -- about the process.

My DD is a senior going through the college process and is none of this. She has already been admitted to her top choice. No stress at all and now she can enjoy her senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread really feels like it's deteriorated to "mine is bigger than yours" quality.

That's not the intent. The intent is honesty on an anonymous board. No kid with UVA caliber stats wants to go to JMU. Or VCU. Or GMU. You get the picture. They just plain don't. You need a very strong record for UVA, and the kids who work hard enough (or are blessed enough intellectually) to accumulate that record are simply aiming higher than the other schools. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the other schools; it's just reality.

But actually, I said earlier that my daughter prefers JMU and is not interested in UVA.

Respectfully, come back here and say that after she's applied to and gotten into both. One year, during a trip to OBX, we proposed making a quick stop at William & Mary just to check out the campus. One of ours kids (not the UVA one) was a entering senior year at the time, but refused to make the stop, saying there was no reason to because there was no interest. But we knew better -- the real issue was fear of liking the school and not getting in. College admissions are tough for kids. I'm sure you know your daughter very well and that she's a great kid, but it takes a truly extraordinary kid around here not to get all worked up, anxious -- and, at times, defeatist -- about the process.

My DD is a senior going through the college process and is none of this. She has already been admitted to her top choice. No stress at all and now she can enjoy her senior year.

Where? As of this date it would have to be rolling admissions only.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Big companies still go to all of these schools

After your first job no one cares where you went to school anyway

I went to JMU 10 years ago and I had a lot of fun

Now I make over 6 figures and I would have done just as well as any of the other colleges on this list

Again, we know that. There's nothing wrong with JMU. I'm just saying that if you're from NOVA and truly are a borderline UVA admit, as was my daughter, it can be a let down to have to go there. Her high school probably sent two or three dozen kids there, including some good friends, none of whom performed as well as she did academically.

2017-2018 Freshman Enrollment from Fairfax County

GMU - 1,031
VT - 959
UVA - 680
JMU - 600

More likely to run into kids from your same high school at UVA than JMU.

I'm not the poster who said JMU is high school 2.0. The point is that our daughter was a better student than the two or three dozen of her classmates who went to JMU, and she wanted something better for her efforts.

I'm the poster who said people might go OOS to avoid high school 2.0. I didn't mean literally that you'll see the same folks as those in your high school all the time, but rather the population will reflect a lot students with similar backgrounds as you knew in high school. I actually think this is MORE true at UVA, GMU and W&M which are more NOVA-heavy than JMU.

Blah blah blah. Here are the actual numbers:

UVA: out of state 33 percent
JMU: out of state 27 percent

UVA from Fairfax/Loudoun/Arlington: 26 percent
JMU: 23 percent

So, both more out of state at UVA and more from NOVA. A wash out. And those OOS students at UVA are wicked smart -- a lot smarter than what you'll find at JMU.

Based on what metric exactly? I guess we will just take your word for it.

This may be a factor for OOS students. Maybe the smarter ones are those paying over $100k less for a degree.
UVA OOS - $65k
JMU OOS - $$39k

Will you accept SCHEV Research? Profile of freshman entering (entering, not accepted, which is an even higher figure): Top 25% median High School GPA of 4.48; median 50% and a 4.33 and Bottom 25% of the class at 4.16. Median ACT score for top 25% at 34; 32 for 50% and 30 for bottom 25%. Meddian SAT for top 25% at 1480, etc. http://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread really feels like it's deteriorated to "mine is bigger than yours" quality.

That's not the intent. The intent is honesty on an anonymous board. No kid with UVA caliber stats wants to go to JMU. Or VCU. Or GMU. You get the picture. They just plain don't. You need a very strong record for UVA, and the kids who work hard enough (or are blessed enough intellectually) to accumulate that record are simply aiming higher than the other schools. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the other schools; it's just reality.

But actually, I said earlier that my daughter prefers JMU and is not interested in UVA.

Respectfully, come back here and say that after she's applied to and gotten into both. One year, during a trip to OBX, we proposed making a quick stop at William & Mary just to check out the campus. One of ours kids (not the UVA one) was a entering senior year at the time, but refused to make the stop, saying there was no reason to because there was no interest. But we knew better -- the real issue was fear of liking the school and not getting in. College admissions are tough for kids. I'm sure you know your daughter very well and that she's a great kid, but it takes a truly extraordinary kid around here not to get all worked up, anxious -- and, at times, defeatist -- about the process.

My DD is a senior going through the college process and is none of this. She has already been admitted to her top choice. No stress at all and now she can enjoy her senior year.

Where? As of this date it would have to be rolling admissions only.

Is there something wrong with schools that offer rolling admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big companies still go to all of these schools

After your first job no one cares where you went to school anyway

I went to JMU 10 years ago and I had a lot of fun

Now I make over 6 figures and I would have done just as well as any of the other colleges on this list

Again, we know that. There's nothing wrong with JMU. I'm just saying that if you're from NOVA and truly are a borderline UVA admit, as was my daughter, it can be a let down to have to go there. Her high school probably sent two or three dozen kids there, including some good friends, none of whom performed as well as she did academically.

2017-2018 Freshman Enrollment from Fairfax County

GMU - 1,031
VT - 959
UVA - 680
JMU - 600

More likely to run into kids from your same high school at UVA than JMU.

I'm not the poster who said JMU is high school 2.0. The point is that our daughter was a better student than the two or three dozen of her classmates who went to JMU, and she wanted something better for her efforts.

I'm the poster who said people might go OOS to avoid high school 2.0. I didn't mean literally that you'll see the same folks as those in your high school all the time, but rather the population will reflect a lot students with similar backgrounds as you knew in high school. I actually think this is MORE true at UVA, GMU and W&M which are more NOVA-heavy than JMU.

Blah blah blah. Here are the actual numbers:

UVA: out of state 33 percent
JMU: out of state 27 percent

UVA from Fairfax/Loudoun/Arlington: 26 percent
JMU: 23 percent

So, both more out of state at UVA and more from NOVA. A wash out. And those OOS students at UVA are wicked smart -- a lot smarter than what you'll find at JMU.

Based on what metric exactly? I guess we will just take your word for it.

This may be a factor for OOS students. Maybe the smarter ones are those paying over $100k less for a degree.
UVA OOS - $65k
JMU OOS - $$39k

Will you accept SCHEV Research? Profile of freshman entering (entering, not accepted, which is an even higher figure): Top 25% median High School GPA of 4.48; median 50% and a 4.33 and Bottom 25% of the class at 4.16. Median ACT score for top 25% at 34; 32 for 50% and 30 for bottom 25%. Meddian SAT for top 25% at 1480, etc. http://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

Sure. You are right. Can we now close this thread?
All hail UVA!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread really feels like it's deteriorated to "mine is bigger than yours" quality.

That's not the intent. The intent is honesty on an anonymous board. No kid with UVA caliber stats wants to go to JMU. Or VCU. Or GMU. You get the picture. They just plain don't. You need a very strong record for UVA, and the kids who work hard enough (or are blessed enough intellectually) to accumulate that record are simply aiming higher than the other schools. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the other schools; it's just reality.

But actually, I said earlier that my daughter prefers JMU and is not interested in UVA.

Respectfully, come back here and say that after she's applied to and gotten into both. One year, during a trip to OBX, we proposed making a quick stop at William & Mary just to check out the campus. One of ours kids (not the UVA one) was a entering senior year at the time, but refused to make the stop, saying there was no reason to because there was no interest. But we knew better -- the real issue was fear of liking the school and not getting in. College admissions are tough for kids. I'm sure you know your daughter very well and that she's a great kid, but it takes a truly extraordinary kid around here not to get all worked up, anxious -- and, at times, defeatist -- about the process.

My DD is a senior going through the college process and is none of this. She has already been admitted to her top choice. No stress at all and now she can enjoy her senior year.

Where? As of this date it would have to be rolling admissions only.

Is there something wrong with schools that offer rolling admissions?

New poster here. Presumably less selective. That’s at least a perception. Not judging! Glad your daughter had an easy time of it. My high-achieving, high-anxiety daughters definitely stress about the process and getting them to even think about it is a challenge.

[Anonymous]

As a told my DD there is a school out there for everyone. The super elite schools can only take so many kids each year.

Some kids (like mine) knew early in high school that she didn't want to get into the rat race. I applaud those kids and parents who have endured it and I wish them all the best when the decisions roll out.

She has had an awesome HS experience without constantly stressing about AP test, SAT scores and class rank.

I have no doubt she will be successful at her less selective school with rolling admissions.

FYI - It is also possible to have received ED results by now from some schools (Wake Forest) so presumption of an acceptance to a school will rolling admissions is misplaced.

[Anonymous]

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Yes, but it's amazing that we have three public schools that cover top-notch flagship, SLAC and tech. And then a whole crop of other schools that are as good as or better than the 1 flagship in another state. I think the one challenging thing is that UVA + W&M in numbers total less than the numbers at another state flagship so it gets very competitive.

We are lucky in VA, but I do think there are better (and still affordable) options for the kids that just miss out on UVA/W&M. I can see why someone would want their kid with maybe a 4.1 and 1460 SAT (who might be rejected from UVA/W&M) to go to an OOS school with a national reputation over JMU or GMU. It wouldn't necessarily have a higher cost than W&M with its $35K price tag.

I'm the poster with the strong student who made clear she'd be very unhappy going below UVA in state. That was exactly her thinking, and fortunately we had the money to pay for her to go anywhere. We weren't willing to pay full freight for a private school (to us, that made no sense for anything lower than top 10-15), so we said we'd pay for a strong OOS flagship. She got into a good one, paid the deposit, and would have been happy to go. But she ended up getting into UVA off the waitlist so it all ended well.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Not everyone has the money to pay OOS, and frankly, it's often even harder to get admitted as an OOS. My kid is a very strong student, they technically have the numbers that would put them in range at UVA or WM, but that's not a guarantee with all of the other high achieving students applying. I really hate the attitude that you and you your daughter are fostering that if a bright student doesn't get the golden ticket or possess $$$ they're doomed.

I'm not suggesting that you're "doomed" if you can't get into William & Mary or UVA in state and have to settle for another in state school. There's nothing wrong with JMU, GMU, etc., it's just that the gap between UVA/W&M and the other VA schools in terms of admission is so great -- JMU truly doesn't mean "Just Missed UVA" -- that there are many, many great schools falling somewhere in between. For example, other than Northwestern a borderline UVA admit from in state is a likely admit to every Big 10 school, most of which are great, fun, and have national reputations. If you can afford them, why not? They're certainly less expensive than private schools.

That is absolutely not certain. Many privates are a heckuva lot cheaper than OOS B10 schools.

After merit aid, maybe, but the best privates typically don't offer merit aid. I'm talking about full price for a top ranked private versus full price for OOS Big Ten. Big Ten is always cheaper.

Ugh. I feel like you are being deliberately obtuse.

First off, getting into a top ranked private is probably as difficult to get into as getting into UVA or harder, so it's not worth including them in this example.
Second, even if we go with your assumption that the OOS Big Ten will always be cheaper than the top private... that OOS Big Ten is STILL more expensive than in state VA.
I have found a few exceptions...
University of Missouri: if you have a certain GPA + SAT/ACT score, they will essentially make up the difference in cost for OOS student and will admit the student.
University of Alabama has similar type of offer.
Unless you are talking about the OOS options that bring the level back down to in-state cost, it is frustrating to hear you keep hammering away at OOS option, like it the obvious choice and anyone should automatically do it if they don't get into UVA.
As multiple people on this thread have explained, many solidly middle class people are not going to qualify for need-based aid, and are also not going to be able to afford OOS options.

Um . . . neither Missouri nor Alabama are in the Big Ten -- or as good as virtually any Big Ten school.

I also never said that OOS Big Ten cost the same as UVA in state. I said they're more expensive than in state UVA but less expensive than private but may still be worth the extra money over the other in state VA options because the Big Ten schools are better (generally) than those options.

Not being obtuse, deliberate or otherwise. I understand that some folks don't have the money to go OOS Big Ten and settle instead for JMU etc. That's fine.

DP. You are truly missing the point if you think students "settle" for JMU, etc. Many kids CHOOSE JMU over other, more widely recognized schools. Why? Because it's a great fit for them. JMU offers something for everyone. It's clear you can't imagine someone choosing JMU (or VT, or GMU, etc.) over your "Big Ten" wish list, but that's just ridiculous. My kids wouldn't want anything to do with a Big Ten school. Your first choice (or rather, your CHILD's first choice - hopefully) isn't at all what my kids' would be. Some people go for the right fit, period.

only 29 percent of applicants who were accepted to JMU enrolled. 71 percent went elsewhere. not a first choice for many.

Source for that? And you do realize that almost every school can be considered a safety school or backup, right? UVA is most definitely a safety school for those who wind up going to the Ivies or well-regarded SLACs. Not to mention, many kids choose their safety school because it's where they feel most at home. And finally, JMU is indeed the first choice for many students.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My DD is a senior applying early action to JMU and CNU. She's undecided/arts/humanities. I'm hopeful she'll be accepted to both (4.2 weighted 1300 SAT), but she may have a tough decision to make. She likes both a lot but for different reasons. I'm reading this thread with interest...

Your daughter should apply to UVA. She'd be in the running.

I feel like it wouldn't be impossible, but it might be tough. Plus, she didn't even want to look at the school. We toured W&M though and she didn't like the vibe or the campus at all. Oh well!

Same with my kids. Similar stats as your DD, but uninterested in either UVA or W&M.

Uninterested, or unwilling to take the risk of applying and being rejected? If the latter, that's too bad. She'd be in the running.

Uninterested.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the most recommended school (based on “If a friend or family member were considering going to university, based on your experience, how likely or unlikely are you to recommend your college or university to them?” Students gave their colleges a score between 0 and 10 with 0 being “not at all likely” and 10 being “extremely likely”) in the U.S. is JMU.

And VA Tech is #3.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/most-recommended-universities-united-states?fbclid=IwAR3suOP9qJvnaHhkgnB5EGSzNoW9PdtGKAc-WHW5C6G_zGGToflHqfkBi58#survey-answer

Covenant College is #5, so...

And Stanford is #2.

Right but Covenant College. Let me illustrate. List of great men: Lincoln, Ghandi, King, Hitler. Being on this list doesn’t say anything about JMU other than the kids like it. Great. Cool. They also love it at Covenant and Stanford and West Texas A&M and Montevallo and Yale. So what point are you trying to make?

Oh, honey. You're just miffed that neither UVA or any of the Big Ten schools are on that list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the most recommended school (based on “If a friend or family member were considering going to university, based on your experience, how likely or unlikely are you to recommend your college or university to them?” Students gave their colleges a score between 0 and 10 with 0 being “not at all likely” and 10 being “extremely likely”) in the U.S. is JMU.

And VA Tech is #3.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/best-universities/most-recommended-universities-united-states?fbclid=IwAR3suOP9qJvnaHhkgnB5EGSzNoW9PdtGKAc-WHW5C6G_zGGToflHqfkBi58#survey-answer

Covenant College is #5, so...

And Stanford is #2.

Right but Covenant College. Let me illustrate. List of great men: Lincoln, Ghandi, King, Hitler. Being on this list doesn’t say anything about JMU other than the kids like it. Great. Cool. They also love it at Covenant and Stanford and West Texas A&M and Montevallo and Yale. So what point are you trying to make?

Not the poster you are addressing, but I think the point she is trying to make is that JMU (as well as Stanford, and Covenant College) have environments that students seem to enjoy. Obviously Covenant College wouldn't appeal to most students, but if someone is looking for a religious college, knowing that most kids who go there liked it, would be valuable information to have.

Good point, though without knowing why they liked it I’m not sure there’s much value. Liked it because of a stimulating academic experience or easy classes and massive keggers?

You are a moron. #2 is Stanford. #7 is Yale. No UVA. So sad!