Be careful biking with your family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a pedestrian or cyclist MAKE EYE CONTACT before crossing.

This is what they teach you on bike school. Yes, the driver who kills you in a crosswalk would be liable. But so what? Posters here who’d rather be right and dead. ....

Nobody has said that on this thread. In fact, nobody in my entire experience of discussions of transportation safety has ever said this. "The driver broke the law" is not a preference for being right and dead; it's a factual statement that the driver broke the law.

On the other side says: So what? Your small child is dead and here’s what you could have done in this scenario to prevent the accident.
A very hollow victory to strive to have the last word be “the driver broke the law.”

The last word for the driver would be "You killed a child." Would you be ok with that, if it were you? To go through the rest of your life knowing that you killed a child as a result of your own carelessness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does that crossing having any kind of signage?

I'm not familiar with the road, but we have a similar crossing in my town that has STOP signs for the bike trail people. Then, because so many didn't stop, they installed signs leading up to the stop signs that flash and say "Stop Ahead!" annnnnd because so many people STILL didn't get how to properly cross the road, signs underneath the STOP signs were installed that state: Bicycles & Pedestrians crossing must wait until all traffic comes to a complete stop to proceed.

So, technically, if these humans were crossing in my town, they would have been at fault because they only waited for 3/4 lanes to stop completely.

So the drivers have no stop signs or traffic signs, but the pedestrians/bikers have a stop sign? Have you ever waited at the crossing as a pedestrian or biker? I'm wondering how long it takes to cross? It sounds like it would be better for the town to just close off the exit from the trail. It's horrible to follow a trail and then get stuck in some unsafe spot where traffic never yields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The $1 million or $10 million from the driver’s umbrella policy or lawsuit in a wrongful death would be cold comfort. As a parent, you need to be smarter.

As a driver, you need to be smarter. It would be cold comfort to you that your driver's insurance paid out to the dead child's family, wouldn't it?

Don’t be ridiculous. A lot of things could be improved from that video. But between a driver and a parent, who do you rely on to be smarter when it comes to the safety of your child? If you say driver, you need to be smarter. Else, you could have an insurance payment and a funeral.

My personal opinion is that the people who have the potential to kill other people while traveling have the greatest responsibility to be careful.

The most careful behavior in the world can't prevent a careless driver from killing you. That's why we need to focus on the careless drivers.

Don’t be obtuse. Dismounting the bikes and waiting a completely clear road in time to cross or for the cars to all come to a stop would have prevented this near miss. Yeah, it’s a pain, takes longer, people get impatient. It’s what’s required here.

It also is a pain and takes longer to make sure a crosswalk is clear before you cross it. Drivers are impatient, I know. But they are required to stop and this driver did not.

And yes, every day, people run across crosswalks faster than this kid was going on her bike.

Stop driving if you cannot see that the crosswalk is clear. It is simple. Perhaps it is hard for some people but then they should not be driving.

YOU ARE IN A CAR AND THE KID IS LOW TO THE GROUND. WHAT A FREAKING IDIOT.

You can avoid this problem by obeying the law and stopping when you see a car stopped at a crosswalk. If you can't obey the law, then you shouldn't be driving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does that crossing having any kind of signage?

I'm not familiar with the road, but we have a similar crossing in my town that has STOP signs for the bike trail people. Then, because so many didn't stop, they installed signs leading up to the stop signs that flash and say "Stop Ahead!" annnnnd because so many people STILL didn't get how to properly cross the road, signs underneath the STOP signs were installed that state: Bicycles & Pedestrians crossing must wait until all traffic comes to a complete stop to proceed.

So, technically, if these humans were crossing in my town, they would have been at fault because they only waited for 3/4 lanes to stop completely.

So the drivers have no stop signs or traffic signs, but the pedestrians/bikers have a stop sign? Have you ever waited at the crossing as a pedestrian or biker? I'm wondering how long it takes to cross? It sounds like it would be better for the town to just close off the exit from the trail. It's horrible to follow a trail and then get stuck in some unsafe spot where traffic never yields.

The only signs for cars is that a crosswalk is ahead. There's nothing to tell drivers to stop. I don't see it being closed as it's part of the W&OD. The big difference I see here is that in my town, the speed limit is only 35 through there and in that video it looks like the car was doing maybe 45-50? Not sure.

I've used the crossing a handful of times and it does usually take 5-10 mins. to cross. Usually what happens is one side stops to allow you to cross, but the other 2 lanes keep moving so then the first two stopped lanes get grumpy that they've waited "so long" and move along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a pedestrian or cyclist MAKE EYE CONTACT before crossing.

This is what they teach you on bike school. Yes, the driver who kills you in a crosswalk would be liable. But so what? Posters here who’d rather be right and dead. ....

Nobody has said that on this thread. In fact, nobody in my entire experience of discussions of transportation safety has ever said this. "The driver broke the law" is not a preference for being right and dead; it's a factual statement that the driver broke the law.

On the other side says: So what? Your small child is dead and here’s what you could have done in this scenario to prevent the accident.
A very hollow victory to strive to have the last word be “the driver broke the law.”

The last word for the driver would be "You killed a child." Would you be ok with that, if it were you? To go through the rest of your life knowing that you killed a child as a result of your own carelessness?

You’re ridiculous. But ok, I feel confident parents would feel worse and have a harder time in life that the driver. But you’ll probably just disagree to disagree. In this clip, the driver was absolutely wrong. And the parents could have prevented the near miss in this case.

[Anonymous]

From the comments here, it seems that many drivers should not have licenses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a pedestrian or cyclist MAKE EYE CONTACT before crossing.

This is what they teach you on bike school. Yes, the driver who kills you in a crosswalk would be liable. But so what? Posters here who’d rather be right and dead. ....

Nobody has said that on this thread. In fact, nobody in my entire experience of discussions of transportation safety has ever said this. "The driver broke the law" is not a preference for being right and dead; it's a factual statement that the driver broke the law.

On the other side says: So what? Your small child is dead and here’s what you could have done in this scenario to prevent the accident.
A very hollow victory to strive to have the last word be “the driver broke the law.”

The last word for the driver would be "You killed a child." Would you be ok with that, if it were you? To go through the rest of your life knowing that you killed a child as a result of your own carelessness?

A driver may be traumatized for life; but the trauma to the parent who could have prevented it by keeping the kid from crossing alone would obviously be much worse. Does that really have to be stated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a pedestrian or cyclist MAKE EYE CONTACT before crossing.

This is what they teach you on bike school. Yes, the driver who kills you in a crosswalk would be liable. But so what? Posters here who’d rather be right and dead. ....

Nobody has said that on this thread. In fact, nobody in my entire experience of discussions of transportation safety has ever said this. "The driver broke the law" is not a preference for being right and dead; it's a factual statement that the driver broke the law.

On the other side says: So what? Your small child is dead and here’s what you could have done in this scenario to prevent the accident.
A very hollow victory to strive to have the last word be “the driver broke the law.”

The last word for the driver would be "You killed a child." Would you be ok with that, if it were you? To go through the rest of your life knowing that you killed a child as a result of your own carelessness?

You’re ridiculous. But ok, I feel confident parents would feel worse and have a harder time in life that the driver. But you’ll probably just disagree to disagree. In this clip, the driver was absolutely wrong. And the parents could have prevented the near miss in this case.

I don't think many people in this thread can handle that both parties are in the wrong. They want 1 right and 1 wrong.

OTOH I am glad OP posted this because it's bringing awareness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It looks like one of the local news stations picked up on this a little after it was posted here.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/safety-concerns-over-temporary-crosswalk-on-piney-branch-road-in-montgomery-county

So it’s a temporary crosswalk and known to be dangerous with insufficient signage? Fatal accident and lawsuit are destined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this intersection this crosswalk - it's in Takoma Park and there is currently construction around there which complicates things. If you were this parent - would you want this posted on the local listserv? I think it would be good for the family to see it but don't want to be instrusive. Maybe a post that links to this thread? What do you think?

What would be your objective in posting it to the local listserv?

It’s a Public Service. Please absolutely post it anywhere people will see it. This is incredibly important to remind drivers to pay attention.
My high school aged son was hit and thrown from his bike in the exact same scenario as posted here. The only reason he wasn’t killed is because traffic was slowing. The driver said he just didn’t look and never saw my son (even though the other lane traffic had stopped — just as in this video).

Please post this video anywhere you can. As evidenced by the lively discussion here, it makes people THINK. And hopefully be better drivers, bike riders and pedestrians.

Please post on your neighborhood listservs. The W&OD in Virginia is ripe for an bicycle accident at a crosswalk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It looks like one of the local news stations picked up on this a little after it was posted here.

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/safety-concerns-over-temporary-crosswalk-on-piney-branch-road-in-montgomery-county

So it’s a temporary crosswalk and known to be dangerous with insufficient signage? Fatal accident and lawsuit are destined.

Thanks for the link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Idiots on bikes!

You walk your bike when you cross the street.

The car was wrong, absolutely, and the driver 100% would have been at fault had the driver hit the kid, but the parents are also not blameless here.

Teach good biking rules! If you don't know them, take a class!

Why?

Have you taken a class? For example, the City Cycling class offered by WABA? And if so, is that what they taught - that you should walk your bike when you cross a street?

I've never taken the WABA class, but I'd absolutely expect that it spends a fair amount of time on staying safe and visible in intersections. Their rule #6 is don't bike on sidewalks, so I assume this refers in part to the risks of biking across crosswalks.

http://www.waba.org/blog/2013/07/women-bicycles-tip-12-must-knows-of-urban-bicycling/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the comments here, it seems that many drivers should not have licenses.

Agree completely. This was on the driver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
thissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
x100000000000000000000
I am a careful driver, very careful and I live near a bike trail and crosswalk. My attention would have been on the dumbass dad and thought...oh all done...looking at road in front and not seen a small child lower than my damn bumper.

Then you're not a careful-enough driver.

The SUV wasn’t remotely slowing down. It was flying by, which was way too fast even if it thought Dad was the only biker.

[Anonymous]

You must as a pedestrian walk as if people will not stop or do not notice you. The parents should have walked the child across - somebody may not have been able to see the child or thought that the crossing pedestrians have already completed crossing. Not only that, you have distracted drivers, elderly drivers, inexperienced drivers, drivers with bad brakes, ice, etc . Be a defensive pedestrian not an entitled one.