Be careful biking with your family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

It still would have been a near miss. That SUV was speeding past the stopped car and into the crosswalk. The adult would have been a few feet farther into the crosswalk is all.

Yes, but much less risky. The mom would have had hands on the kid and likely stopped before the SUV even entered the crosswalk.

Yes, the mom would be standing in front of the stopped car with a death grip on her kid's wrist, peeking around to see the other car failing to yield. I know that outcome because I'm that mom so many times, and I still can't understand how you see a crosswalk, see pedestrian activity, see a stopped car with no turn, and the driver chooses not to slow down to see what might be coming up ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

It still would have been a near miss. That SUV was speeding past the stopped car and into the crosswalk. The adult would have been a few feet farther into the crosswalk is all.

You wait till the cars are stopped or it’s all clear. You don’t walk if you see an SUV speeding towards the intersection. These crosswalks are crazy and you cannot trust the driver sees you or will stop. Why are people intent on arguing that there was just nothing more the parents could have done here? When it’s my kid in the crosswalk, I don’t care that the SUV driver will be found liable.

[Anonymous]

The SUV driver is 100 percent at fault. The parents are guilty only of trusting crazy, entitled drivers to follow the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
When you are biking or scootering on the sidewalk or on a bike path, you MUST slow down extremely, or walk your bike, instead of coming quickly off the sidewalk or bikepath into oncoming traffic. This is because although drivers may be looking for pedestrians, a bike is moving to fast for them to anticipate and stop in time. Apparently there's some disagreement of fact here, but I saw the child going faster than walking pace. Also because she's small, she's even less visible.

Secondly, if you're crossing a lot of traffic, you can't just assume that the cars are going to stop - you have to be watching to make sure they are, be able to see all the cars, and be ready to stop if they don't stop. Most 4 year olds can't do this; thus, they should not cross alone.

https://www.bicycleaccidentprevention.com/

Okay, again. It looks to me like they are going little above walking pace (note, we have runners in our region who cross at crosswalks at running speed - a driver should be looking for movement of up to 6MPH in my opinion, certaily 4MPH. Their speed is not an issue.

The little girl was quite visible, and in any case the dad and the trailer, just ahead, should have clued the driver that someone might be following, PLUS the presence of a stopped vehicle. The girl was NOT invisible.

And the girl DID stop. The problem was not her behavior, which was appropriate, but what the driver did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

It still would have been a near miss. That SUV was speeding past the stopped car and into the crosswalk. The adult would have been a few feet farther into the crosswalk is all.

You wait till the cars are stopped or it’s all clear. You don’t walk if you see an SUV speeding towards the intersection. These crosswalks are crazy and you cannot trust the driver sees you or will stop. Why are people intent on arguing that there was just nothing more the parents could have done here? When it’s my kid in the crosswalk, I don’t care that the SUV driver will be found liable.

There are crosswalks where to wait till there is no moving vehicle in sight, you would basically have to wait an hour or more. Basically what you are unsaying is that its not safe to cross here, period. Which may be the case, but if it is, then the first priority has to be to change that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The SUV driver is 100 percent at fault. The parents are guilty only of trusting crazy, entitled drivers to follow the law.

Exactly - this really isn't different from stop signs and traffic signals which drivers also routinely ignore - in all three cases there are clear visual cues that dictate what the driver should do and in all 3 cases drivers routinely ignore them. By this logic no one should cross with a light or at a stop sign until every one has come to a complete stop and makes eye contact with the pedestrians?

In this particular case other drivers, as required, were following the law but this particular driver for whatever reason wasn't paying attention or decided the rules don't apply to him but the cyclist had clear visual confirmation that the crosswalk was being yielded to as required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

It still would have been a near miss. That SUV was speeding past the stopped car and into the crosswalk. The adult would have been a few feet farther into the crosswalk is all.

Yes, but much less risky. The mom would have had hands on the kid and likely stopped before the SUV even entered the crosswalk.

Yes, the mom would be standing in front of the stopped car with a death grip on her kid's wrist, peeking around to see the other car failing to yield. I know that outcome because I'm that mom so many times, and I still can't understand how you see a crosswalk, see pedestrian activity, see a stopped car with no turn, and the driver chooses not to slow down to see what might be coming up ahead.

This is what’s required. To the others screaming here that the driver is required to stop — good luck to you and your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
When you are biking or scootering on the sidewalk or on a bike path, you MUST slow down extremely, or walk your bike, instead of coming quickly off the sidewalk or bikepath into oncoming traffic. This is because although drivers may be looking for pedestrians, a bike is moving to fast for them to anticipate and stop in time. Apparently there's some disagreement of fact here, but I saw the child going faster than walking pace. Also because she's small, she's even less visible.

Secondly, if you're crossing a lot of traffic, you can't just assume that the cars are going to stop - you have to be watching to make sure they are, be able to see all the cars, and be ready to stop if they don't stop. Most 4 year olds can't do this; thus, they should not cross alone.

https://www.bicycleaccidentprevention.com/

Okay, again. It looks to me like they are going little above walking pace (note, we have runners in our region who cross at crosswalks at running speed - a driver should be looking for movement of up to 6MPH in my opinion, certaily 4MPH. Their speed is not an issue.

The little girl was quite visible, and in any case the dad and the trailer, just ahead, should have clued the driver that someone might be following, PLUS the presence of a stopped vehicle. The girl was NOT invisible.

And the girl DID stop. The problem was not her behavior, which was appropriate, but what the driver did.

I'm sorry, there's no universe where it's prudent to let a 4 year old cross multiple lanes of traffic in an unsignalized, trafficked crosswalk by herself on a bike. No universe.

[Anonymous]

I think crosswalks in the middle of a block that span over several lanes are very dangerous. Even if one car is stopped in one lane, cars approaching in the other lanes most likely can't see the pedestrian. I know the cars are responsible to stop, but it's even harder when the first car is blocking the pedestrian.

There is a crosswalk on Democracy Blvd across from Walter Johnson High and I always see one car stop in one lane and the other cars in the other lanes blow through the crosswalk when someone is trying to cross. I wish these municipalities would find the money to install a proper traffic light at mid block pedestrian crossings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

It still would have been a near miss. That SUV was speeding past the stopped car and into the crosswalk. The adult would have been a few feet farther into the crosswalk is all.

Yes, but much less risky. The mom would have had hands on the kid and likely stopped before the SUV even entered the crosswalk.

Yes, the mom would be standing in front of the stopped car with a death grip on her kid's wrist, peeking around to see the other car failing to yield. I know that outcome because I'm that mom so many times, and I still can't understand how you see a crosswalk, see pedestrian activity, see a stopped car with no turn, and the driver chooses not to slow down to see what might be coming up ahead.

This is what’s required. To the others screaming here that the driver is required to stop — good luck to you and your kids.

My kid is grown. I want a better world for all kids. I am trying to change the world, not just figure out what advice to give my kids. I would certainly tell my daughter not to drink at frat parties, to be careful going out alone at night - but I am not going to focus on stuff like that when a sexual assault takes place. When a driver nearly kills a child, because they were driving negligently, probably speeding - I am not going to focus on parenting. But you be you, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
When you are biking or scootering on the sidewalk or on a bike path, you MUST slow down extremely, or walk your bike, instead of coming quickly off the sidewalk or bikepath into oncoming traffic. This is because although drivers may be looking for pedestrians, a bike is moving to fast for them to anticipate and stop in time. Apparently there's some disagreement of fact here, but I saw the child going faster than walking pace. Also because she's small, she's even less visible.

Secondly, if you're crossing a lot of traffic, you can't just assume that the cars are going to stop - you have to be watching to make sure they are, be able to see all the cars, and be ready to stop if they don't stop. Most 4 year olds can't do this; thus, they should not cross alone.

https://www.bicycleaccidentprevention.com/

Okay, again. It looks to me like they are going little above walking pace (note, we have runners in our region who cross at crosswalks at running speed - a driver should be looking for movement of up to 6MPH in my opinion, certaily 4MPH. Their speed is not an issue.

The little girl was quite visible, and in any case the dad and the trailer, just ahead, should have clued the driver that someone might be following, PLUS the presence of a stopped vehicle. The girl was NOT invisible.

And the girl DID stop. The problem was not her behavior, which was appropriate, but what the driver did.

I'm sorry, there's no universe where it's prudent to let a 4 year old cross multiple lanes of traffic in an unsignalized, trafficked crosswalk by herself on a bike. No universe.

She was not alone - her parents were a few feet ahead or behind. And again, its not clear to me that she would have been any safer with a parent a few feet closer. And all crosswalks are "trafficked".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think crosswalks in the middle of a block that span over several lanes are very dangerous. Even if one car is stopped in one lane, cars approaching in the other lanes most likely can't see the pedestrian. I know the cars are responsible to stop, but it's even harder when the first car is blocking the pedestrian.

There is a crosswalk on Democracy Blvd across from Walter Johnson High and I always see one car stop in one lane and the other cars in the other lanes blow through the crosswalk when someone is trying to cross. I wish these municipalities would find the money to install a proper traffic light at mid block pedestrian crossings.

That would mean slowing down traffic too much, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The car passed a stopped car at a marked pedestrian crossing.

CRV driver at fault.

If that girl died I am betting vehicular manslaughter

True.
Also true: the parents here could have avoided the near miss entirely by exercising prudent cautioun (though not required by law and as would have been done by at least 90% DCUMers, if this thread is any measure).
It’s your choice. For me, I’d rather take the extra time so my family gets home safely.

It still would have been a near miss. That SUV was speeding past the stopped car and into the crosswalk. The adult would have been a few feet farther into the crosswalk is all.

Yes, but much less risky. The mom would have had hands on the kid and likely stopped before the SUV even entered the crosswalk.

Yes, the mom would be standing in front of the stopped car with a death grip on her kid's wrist, peeking around to see the other car failing to yield. I know that outcome because I'm that mom so many times, and I still can't understand how you see a crosswalk, see pedestrian activity, see a stopped car with no turn, and the driver chooses not to slow down to see what might be coming up ahead.

This is what’s required. To the others screaming here that the driver is required to stop — good luck to you and your kids.

My kid is grown. I want a better world for all kids. I am trying to change the world, not just figure out what advice to give my kids. I would certainly tell my daughter not to drink at frat parties, to be careful going out alone at night - but I am not going to focus on stuff like that when a sexual assault takes place. When a driver nearly kills a child, because they were driving negligently, probably speeding - I am not going to focus on parenting. But you be you, I guess.

Good for you I guess if you’re willing to sacrifice your kid to better the world. But the rest of us want both: our kids alive and idiot drivers to obey traffic laws. But only one of these I can control today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You wait till the cars are stopped or it’s all clear. You don’t walk if you see an SUV speeding towards the intersection. These crosswalks are crazy and you cannot trust the driver sees you or will stop. Why are people intent on arguing that there was just nothing more the parents could have done here? When it’s my kid in the crosswalk, I don’t care that the SUV driver will be found liable.

How about when it's you driving the SUV?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, I posted many, many links about this, but here goes again.

When you are biking or scootering on the sidewalk or on a bike path, you MUST slow down extremely, or walk your bike, instead of coming quickly off the sidewalk or bikepath into oncoming traffic. This is because although drivers may be looking for pedestrians, a bike is moving to fast for them to anticipate and stop in time. Apparently there's some disagreement of fact here, but I saw the child going faster than walking pace. Also because she's small, she's even less visible.

Secondly, if you're crossing a lot of traffic, you can't just assume that the cars are going to stop - you have to be watching to make sure they are, be able to see all the cars, and be ready to stop if they don't stop. Most 4 year olds can't do this; thus, they should not cross alone.

https://www.bicycleaccidentprevention.com/

None of these links were about walking your bicycle across the crosswalk. I honestly don't understand why somebody would think that guidance that provides a lot of detail and includes advice about not riding on the sidewalk, but does not say a single word about walking your bicycle across the crosswalk, is guidance to walk your bicycle across the crosswalk.