Liberals: How can you, in good conscience, support illegal immigrants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to vote Republican but they ran me off years ago with their non-Repupbican policies so I call myself an Independent but have voted 80% D in the past 8-10 years.

I do not support illegal immigration, but I do support pragmatic reform. Our current system is completely broken. There is no "line" to get into. There are ridiculous "hoops" that costs thousands and thousands of dollars which have no common sense guidance.

Republicans are all "scare, scare, scare" but they criminalize the people who come here for very desperate reasons. My in-laws live in a small town where there was an influx of immigrants (for factory jobs that US citizens didn't want) and now that the factory jobs have decreased, the whole town has gone all Trump-crazy anti-immigrant and blaming Obama and the immigrants for the situation and strain on the public schools In reality, it was the factory-owning Republicans who brought them there wanting cheap labor and they just abandoned the town (moved to the next county to avoid taxes and took zero responsibility for bringing thousands of low-skilled immigrants to town).

I'm all for a secure border, I'm all for either expanded or holding incoming immigrant numbers steady. I am NOT for ripping decent families apart when children came as babies years and years ago and if they have kept their noses clean and paid taxes. They need a way to get in an orderly line that doesn't exist yet. I'm for holding employers accountable for their roles in creating this mess. Obama deported a huge number of illegal immigrants, but he wisely went after those who had created crimes - which I can completely get behind.

I'd be for a path to legal residency - but NEVER citizenship. I know the Democrats would love the votes, but that privilege should be granted only to those who entered our country legally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jailing employers for 20 years for hiring illegal immigrants is how you solve the illegals immigration problem. When there are no jobs for illegal immigrants, there are no illegal immigrants. They are here for work. No wall needed but it’s the Republicans hiring these people.

And stop the liberals from aiding and abetting with their welcome mat. No more sanctuary cities. No more having a judge help a drunk driver escape ICE. No more constant defense from bleeding-hearts of these lawbreakers (which is especially infuriating when these same liberals put down law-abiding middle Americans as stupid whites in flyover country).

Fine with me but we have to start hailing the employers first. A wall does nothing if there is work here. People will always find a way in. You may not want to accept this but there are far more illegal immigrants than the federal government can deal with even with sanctuary cities but sure change the subject to avoid discussing the reason they are coming and how to stop them forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to vote Republican but they ran me off years ago with their non-Repupbican policies so I call myself an Independent but have voted 80% D in the past 8-10 years.

I do not support illegal immigration, but I do support pragmatic reform. Our current system is completely broken. There is no "line" to get into. There are ridiculous "hoops" that costs thousands and thousands of dollars which have no common sense guidance.

Republicans are all "scare, scare, scare" but they criminalize the people who come here for very desperate reasons. My in-laws live in a small town where there was an influx of immigrants (for factory jobs that US citizens didn't want) and now that the factory jobs have decreased, the whole town has gone all Trump-crazy anti-immigrant and blaming Obama and the immigrants for the situation and strain on the public schools In reality, it was the factory-owning Republicans who brought them there wanting cheap labor and they just abandoned the town (moved to the next county to avoid taxes and took zero responsibility for bringing thousands of low-skilled immigrants to town).

I'm all for a secure border, I'm all for either expanded or holding incoming immigrant numbers steady. I am NOT for ripping decent families apart when children came as babies years and years ago and if they have kept their noses clean and paid taxes. They need a way to get in an orderly line that doesn't exist yet. I'm for holding employers accountable for their roles in creating this mess. Obama deported a huge number of illegal immigrants, but he wisely went after those who had created crimes - which I can completely get behind.

Thank you for your sane post! Republicans always need someone to demonize. It is their bread and butter.

The liberals are to blame for illegal immigration also, in a number of ways. I posted as to what they are, but our moderator deleted it. Apparently, we are only allowed to blame Republicans here, and Democrats bear no responsibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Left leaning moderate here. I don't support illegals and no one I know supports illegals.

The DACA folks are a special case, and I am comfortable giving them legal, but not citizen status. They can get in line if they want to become fully legal American citizens.

+1

As a child of a licensed electrician and the DIL of a retired roofer, while I feel sorry for people who want to come here for a better life, I've seen first hand how illegal immigration has changed the blue collar trades. We should all be glad that people still need licenses to do electrical, plumbing, nursing, etc., otherwise we'd see the same situation as we have with roofing and other general trades.

Exactly. A "nanny" should have some minimal certification, even if it's just a 12 hour training on safety and an overview of early childhood development. If you don't want minimal requirements, stick with the babysitters.

This confusion puts children at risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Left leaning moderate here. I don't support illegals and no one I know supports illegals.

The DACA folks are a special case, and I am comfortable giving them legal, but not citizen status. They can get in line if they want to become fully legal American citizens.

+1

As a child of a licensed electrician and the DIL of a retired roofer, while I feel sorry for people who want to come here for a better life, I've seen first hand how illegal immigration has changed the blue collar trades. We should all be glad that people still need licenses to do electrical, plumbing, nursing, etc., otherwise we'd see the same situation as we have with roofing and other general trades.

Exactly. A "nanny" should have some minimal certification, even if it's just a 12 hour training on safety and an overview of early childhood development. If you don't want minimal requirements, stick with the babysitters.

This confusion puts children at risk.

I learned this the hard way, years ago. I hired a licensed plumber to build a shower, and his "helpers" made a mess of it - including code violations. I was careful to hire someone licensed, but it didn't occur to me to ask about the status of his "helpers." (That's because he lied and told me that he would be doing 90% of the work, and then he off-loaded to a guy who didn't even speak English.) In retrospect, I imagine the guy was illegal, and now I know for next time to refuse "help" from anyone who wasn't previously identified to me as a licensed whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jailing employers for 20 years for hiring illegal immigrants is how you solve the illegals immigration problem. When there are no jobs for illegal immigrants, there are no illegal immigrants. They are here for work. No wall needed but it’s the Republicans hiring these people.

It's two fold. Republicans love cheap labor and democrats love the Hispanic vote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jailing employers for 20 years for hiring illegal immigrants is how you solve the illegals immigration problem. When there are no jobs for illegal immigrants, there are no illegal immigrants. They are here for work. No wall needed but it’s the Republicans hiring these people.

It's two fold. Republicans love cheap labor and democrats love the Hispanic vote.

Actually, my liberal husband loves cheap labor. I think you get what you pay for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jailing employers for 20 years for hiring illegal immigrants is how you solve the illegals immigration problem. When there are no jobs for illegal immigrants, there are no illegal immigrants. They are here for work. No wall needed but it’s the Republicans hiring these people.

It's two fold. Republicans love cheap labor and democrats love the Hispanic vote.

Yes, and it's also why liberals want a clear path to citizenship.

I'm fine with a two-tier status:

1) Legal immigrants who become citizens, and have all the rights - including voting
2) Illegal immigrants given amnesty, by which they are granted legal residence - but no voting, and no government entitlement programs. The only programs (which I don't consider "entitlements") would be SS and Medicare, which they would qualify for in their old age after a minimum of 15 years paying in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they work harder than poor, lazy Americans who feel entitled to everything.

Then maybe we have to do something about the entitlement attitude of Americans - starting with the entitlement programs. No welfare for able-bodied adults (without small children for whom they care) if they refuse an available job, or deliberately (!!) ask their hours to be cut so they can get more entitlements.

Liberals have been so determined that welfare recipients be viewed as decent Americans as worthy as respect as anyone else (while mocking poor whites in flyover country) that they have established that living on government assistance is every bit as good as being self-supporting. While everyone is deserving of respect, we need to convey that....horrors!.....it is better to support oneself.

Ah, but white people in flyover country receive more public assistance than anyone else. The sad thing is that many of them DO work.

The other sad thing is many of you are complaining about the cost of entitlement programs, but that burden is mostly carried by states. If the states could tax the wages from immigrant labor, there would be more money to spend on the social safety net.

American business doesn't want to pay for American labor - Americans require fair wages and fair rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they work harder than poor, lazy Americans who feel entitled to everything.

Then maybe we have to do something about the entitlement attitude of Americans - starting with the entitlement programs. No welfare for able-bodied adults (without small children for whom they care) if they refuse an available job, or deliberately (!!) ask their hours to be cut so they can get more entitlements.

Liberals have been so determined that welfare recipients be viewed as decent Americans as worthy as respect as anyone else (while mocking poor whites in flyover country) that they have established that living on government assistance is every bit as good as being self-supporting. While everyone is deserving of respect, we need to convey that....horrors!.....it is better to support oneself.

Ah, but white people in flyover country receive more public assistance than anyone else. The sad thing is that many of them DO work.

The other sad thing is many of you are complaining about the cost of entitlement programs, but that burden is mostly carried by states. If the states could tax the wages from immigrant labor, there would be more money to spend on the social safety net.

American business doesn't want to pay for American labor - Americans require fair wages and fair rights.

What are you talking about???? The government DOES tax the earnings of immigrants. Many of highly-paid.

Oh, wait.....when you said "immigrants," you meant the ILLEGAL ones. I guess if you lump legal and illegal immigrants together, without making a distinction, you can diminish the illegality aspect of the latter. We went from illegal alien (still technically accurate), to illegal immigrant, to undocumented worker, and now....just call them immigrants. It's an insult to people who came here legally, obeying our laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Left leaning moderate here. I don't support illegals and no one I know supports illegals.

The DACA folks are a special case, and I am comfortable giving them legal, but not citizen status. They can get in line if they want to become fully legal American citizens.

+1

As a child of a licensed electrician and the DIL of a retired roofer, while I feel sorry for people who want to come here for a better life, I've seen first hand how illegal immigration has changed the blue collar trades. We should all be glad that people still need licenses to do electrical, plumbing, nursing, etc., otherwise we'd see the same situation as we have with roofing and other general trades.

Exactly. A "nanny" should have some minimal certification, even if it's just a 12 hour training on safety and an overview of early childhood development. If you don't want minimal requirements, stick with the babysitters.

This confusion puts children at risk.

I learned this the hard way, years ago. I hired a licensed plumber to build a shower, and his "helpers" made a mess of it - including code violations. I was careful to hire someone licensed, but it didn't occur to me to ask about the status of his "helpers." (That's because he lied and told me that he would be doing 90% of the work, and then he off-loaded to a guy who didn't even speak English.) In retrospect, I imagine the guy was illegal, and now I know for next time to refuse "help" from anyone who wasn't previously identified to me as a licensed whatever.

Then you should blame the American plumber for hiring them, not the illegal immigrants who came looking for a job, and then some greedy American hired them.

And no.. a nanny doesn't need to be certified. Is every mother certified to take care of their child? Has every mother taken child development courses, cpr, etc.. I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to vote Republican but they ran me off years ago with their non-Repupbican policies so I call myself an Independent but have voted 80% D in the past 8-10 years.

I do not support illegal immigration, but I do support pragmatic reform. Our current system is completely broken. There is no "line" to get into. There are ridiculous "hoops" that costs thousands and thousands of dollars which have no common sense guidance.

Republicans are all "scare, scare, scare" but they criminalize the people who come here for very desperate reasons. My in-laws live in a small town where there was an influx of immigrants (for factory jobs that US citizens didn't want) and now that the factory jobs have decreased, the whole town has gone all Trump-crazy anti-immigrant and blaming Obama and the immigrants for the situation and strain on the public schools In reality, it was the factory-owning Republicans who brought them there wanting cheap labor and they just abandoned the town (moved to the next county to avoid taxes and took zero responsibility for bringing thousands of low-skilled immigrants to town).

I'm all for a secure border, I'm all for either expanded or holding incoming immigrant numbers steady. I am NOT for ripping decent families apart when children came as babies years and years ago and if they have kept their noses clean and paid taxes. They need a way to get in an orderly line that doesn't exist yet. I'm for holding employers accountable for their roles in creating this mess. Obama deported a huge number of illegal immigrants, but he wisely went after those who had created crimes - which I can completely get behind.

I'd be for a path to legal residency - but NEVER citizenship. I know the Democrats would love the votes, but that privilege should be granted only to those who entered our country legally.

I agree with NEVER citizenship. Any deportable need to be deported. The US should never take in other country's people on a temporary basis like it did with the Hondurans. So many illegals and temps have anchor babies. https://www.forbes.com/sites/andyjsemotiuk/2016/10/05/the-citizenship-and-immigration-problems-of-anchor-babies-and-surrogacy/#4df302b455b3

Canada and birther tourism http://www.macleans.ca/society/health/why-women-are-coming-to-canada-just-to-give-birth/
Maybe we should fly/bus pregnant illegals to Canada.

Countries repealing anchors: Australia 2007.New Zealand 2006. Ireland 2005. France 1993. India 1987. United Kingdom 1983. Portugal 1981

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they work harder than poor, lazy Americans who feel entitled to everything.

Then maybe we have to do something about the entitlement attitude of Americans - starting with the entitlement programs. No welfare for able-bodied adults (without small children for whom they care) if they refuse an available job, or deliberately (!!) ask their hours to be cut so they can get more entitlements.

Liberals have been so determined that welfare recipients be viewed as decent Americans as worthy as respect as anyone else (while mocking poor whites in flyover country) that they have established that living on government assistance is every bit as good as being self-supporting. While everyone is deserving of respect, we need to convey that....horrors!.....it is better to support oneself.

Ah, but white people in flyover country receive more public assistance than anyone else. The sad thing is that many of them DO work.

The other sad thing is many of you are complaining about the cost of entitlement programs, but that burden is mostly carried by states. If the states could tax the wages from immigrant labor, there would be more money to spend on the social safety net.

American business doesn't want to pay for American labor - Americans require fair wages and fair rights.

What are you talking about???? The government DOES tax the earnings of immigrants. Many of highly-paid.

Oh, wait.....when you said "immigrants," you meant the ILLEGAL ones. I guess if you lump legal and illegal immigrants together, without making a distinction, you can diminish the illegality aspect of the latter. We went from illegal alien (still technically accurate), to illegal immigrant, to undocumented worker, and now....just call them immigrants. It's an insult to people who came here legally, obeying our laws.

Illegal immigrants also pay taxes using a TIN. The IRS gives no shits about someone's immigration status as long as that person is paying taxes on their income.
Watch "Betting on Zero" on Netflix sometime. The CEO of Herbalife is on there, defending the company's reputation amidst allegations that they prey upon low income people in poor communities, including undocumented immigrants. The interviewer directly asked the guy how they are able to hire these workers, and he talks about how anyone can get a TIN. This is not unique to Herbalife, although they (and other MLMs) are particularly adept at exploiting that group. Apparently Carl Ichan, the largest Herbalife shareholder who was named by Trump as a rgulatory adviser, had no problem with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If Republicans wanted to end illegal immigration they would go after the employers. They don't because they are profiting from it.

They are playing poor whites for fools and I can't believe you don't see this as they laugh all the way to the bank.

Read little more than WAPO bezos personal blog

It is the democrats. Chuckle and Nancy that refuse to pass E-Verify

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Left leaning moderate here. I don't support illegals and no one I know supports illegals.

The DACA folks are a special case, and I am comfortable giving them legal, but not citizen status. They can get in line if they want to become fully legal American citizens.

+1

As a child of a licensed electrician and the DIL of a retired roofer, while I feel sorry for people who want to come here for a better life, I've seen first hand how illegal immigration has changed the blue collar trades. We should all be glad that people still need licenses to do electrical, plumbing, nursing, etc., otherwise we'd see the same situation as we have with roofing and other general trades.

Exactly. A "nanny" should have some minimal certification, even if it's just a 12 hour training on safety and an overview of early childhood development. If you don't want minimal requirements, stick with the babysitters.

This confusion puts children at risk.

I learned this the hard way, years ago. I hired a licensed plumber to build a shower, and his "helpers" made a mess of it - including code violations. I was careful to hire someone licensed, but it didn't occur to me to ask about the status of his "helpers." (That's because he lied and told me that he would be doing 90% of the work, and then he off-loaded to a guy who didn't even speak English.) In retrospect, I imagine the guy was illegal, and now I know for next time to refuse "help" from anyone who wasn't previously identified to me as a licensed whatever.

Then you should blame the American plumber for hiring them, not the illegal immigrants who came looking for a job, and then some greedy American hired them.

And no.. a nanny doesn't need to be certified. Is every mother certified to take care of their child? Has every mother taken child development courses, cpr, etc.. I don't think so.

American plumbers and contractors should go to prison for hiring illegals.