Fairfax County: McLean Citizens Association demands smaller class sizes

[Anonymous]

I just don't understand why its controversial to increase the title 1 class sizes. If there is a cap (21?) why not staff up to the cap? A class size of 10 at one school when other schools have 30+ per class is bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS says that the cost of reducing the elementary class size formula by just .5 student (from 26.75 to 26.25) would be $7.0 million. See page 14 of the attached.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9T8AWB70B1D4/$file/FY2016Responses%20for%20Posting1-28-15.pdf

I imagine this group is not proposing a tax increase, so the funds for this proposal will have to be cut from somewhere else in the budget. Do they actually identify where the money would come from, or is this just a political "we should get more without having to make any hard decisions" deal?

Yes, in a roundabout way, they explain where the savings will come from. The resolution is that no elementary class should be smaller than 21 students. So, that is where savings will come from.

The resolution is not that no class should be smaller than 21 students. It's that no school should have an average of less than 21 students. There's a big difference. I agree the delta needs to be a little larger like from 20-25, but it's not true that McLean is advocating for all title one schools to be 21 students or greater. At an average of 25, most upper level schools still have a majority of classes around 28 students. It's just that one grade might be smaller. The VA state law says school averages should be 24:1 in grades 1-3, 25:1 in grades 4-6, and 24:1 in English classes.

[Anonymous]

Currently the schools have been starting out in Sept. at 18 to 27 for the school averages.

[Anonymous]

Also it was admitted at one of the recent school board meetings that some schools request more teachers than they should be allowed and FCPS has not been recalling these teachers.

[Anonymous]

Teachers always want smaller classes because it means less work for them. Parents always want smaller classes because they think it means more attention for little snowflake. The first sentence is true. The second one probably isn't.

If only the "truth" were that easy.

Some smaller classer are more work than some larger classes. It's all in the makeup of the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS says that the cost of reducing the elementary class size formula by just .5 student (from 26.75 to 26.25) would be $7.0 million. See page 14 of the attached.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9T8AWB70B1D4/$file/FY2016Responses%20for%20Posting1-28-15.pdf

I imagine this group is not proposing a tax increase, so the funds for this proposal will have to be cut from somewhere else in the budget. Do they actually identify where the money would come from, or is this just a political "we should get more without having to make any hard decisions" deal?

Yes, in a roundabout way, they explain where the savings will come from. The resolution is that no elementary class should be smaller than 21 students. So, that is where savings will come from.

The resolution is not that no class should be smaller than 21 students. It's that no school should have an average of less than 21 students. There's a big difference. I agree the delta needs to be a little larger like from 20-25, but it's not true that McLean is advocating for all title one schools to be 21 students or greater. At an average of 25, most upper level schools still have a majority of classes around 28 students. It's just that one grade might be smaller. The VA state law says school averages should be 24:1 in grades 1-3, 25:1 in grades 4-6, and 24:1 in English classes.

Most elementary schools in FCPS have an average class size of under 25 students. I need to put all of this in my own spreadsheet, but I counted (very quickly - nothing too scientific) less than 15 schools that have an average of over 25, but more than 25 schools that have an average of less than 21 students per class.


http://www.fcps.edu/it/studentreporting/documents/ElmClassSizeAvg2014.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS says that the cost of reducing the elementary class size formula by just .5 student (from 26.75 to 26.25) would be $7.0 million. See page 14 of the attached.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9T8AWB70B1D4/$file/FY2016Responses%20for%20Posting1-28-15.pdf

I imagine this group is not proposing a tax increase, so the funds for this proposal will have to be cut from somewhere else in the budget. Do they actually identify where the money would come from, or is this just a political "we should get more without having to make any hard decisions" deal?

Yes, in a roundabout way, they explain where the savings will come from. The resolution is that no elementary class should be smaller than 21 students. So, that is where savings will come from.

The resolution is not that no class should be smaller than 21 students. It's that no school should have an average of less than 21 students. There's a big difference. I agree the delta needs to be a little larger like from 20-25, but it's not true that McLean is advocating for all title one schools to be 21 students or greater. At an average of 25, most upper level schools still have a majority of classes around 28 students. It's just that one grade might be smaller. The VA state law says school averages should be 24:1 in grades 1-3, 25:1 in grades 4-6, and 24:1 in English classes.

Most elementary schools in FCPS have an average class size of under 25 students. I need to put all of this in my own spreadsheet, but I counted (very quickly - nothing too scientific) less than 15 schools that have an average of over 25, but more than 25 schools that have an average of less than 21 students per class.


http://www.fcps.edu/it/studentreporting/documents/ElmClassSizeAvg2014.pdf

Ok, I put it in a spreadsheet and sorted.

44 schools have an average class size (all grades) under 21

20 schools have an average class size (all grades) of 25 and over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS says that the cost of reducing the elementary class size formula by just .5 student (from 26.75 to 26.25) would be $7.0 million. See page 14 of the attached.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9T8AWB70B1D4/$file/FY2016Responses%20for%20Posting1-28-15.pdf

I imagine this group is not proposing a tax increase, so the funds for this proposal will have to be cut from somewhere else in the budget. Do they actually identify where the money would come from, or is this just a political "we should get more without having to make any hard decisions" deal?

Yes, in a roundabout way, they explain where the savings will come from. The resolution is that no elementary class should be smaller than 21 students. So, that is where savings will come from.

The resolution is not that no class should be smaller than 21 students. It's that no school should have an average of less than 21 students. There's a big difference. I agree the delta needs to be a little larger like from 20-25, but it's not true that McLean is advocating for all title one schools to be 21 students or greater. At an average of 25, most upper level schools still have a majority of classes around 28 students. It's just that one grade might be smaller. The VA state law says school averages should be 24:1 in grades 1-3, 25:1 in grades 4-6, and 24:1 in English classes.

Most elementary schools in FCPS have an average class size of under 25 students. I need to put all of this in my own spreadsheet, but I counted (very quickly - nothing too scientific) less than 15 schools that have an average of over 25, but more than 25 schools that have an average of less than 21 students per class.


http://www.fcps.edu/it/studentreporting/documents/ElmClassSizeAvg2014.pdf

You have to remember that these class sizes are calculated after people lobby for more teachers for their schools. We know schools over 27 average before they got a teacher out of their staffing reserve. Also, I think you are referring to class sizes for 2013-2014 and not for this year when there was another class size increase.

[Anonymous]

Janie Strauss, the School Board member who both lives in McLean and represents the McLean schools, made an appearance at Karen Garza's "listening tour" last night and said she did NOT support the MCA resolution or taking any money away from higher-needs schools to reduce class sizes elsewhere. The MCA resolution was drafted by Louise Epstein, who also lives in McLean and narrowly lost to Strauss in the 2011 School Board election.

It seems the battle lines for the 2015 contest for the Dranesville seat are being drawn.

[Anonymous]

I taught first for years. Never had fewer than 27--except for one year. I had 21 in my class. Huge difference in what we were able to do. Then, the system cut us a teacher and one teacher was let go and class went up to 29. Huge difference.

[Anonymous]

One year I had 35 in my first grade class. Try giving attention to each child under those circumstances. Pretty tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I taught first for years. Never had fewer than 27--except for one year. I had 21 in my class. Huge difference in what we were able to do. Then, the system cut us a teacher and one teacher was let go and class went up to 29. Huge difference.

[Anonymous]

51% of the classes with more than 30 kids in them are AAP.


______________

Is this true? There's an extremely simple solution for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:51% of the classes with more than 30 kids in them are AAP.


______________

Is this true? There's an extremely simple solution for that.

Add an additional teacher per grade per center school? Simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Janie Strauss, the School Board member who both lives in McLean and represents the McLean schools, made an appearance at Karen Garza's "listening tour" last night and said she did NOT support the MCA resolution or taking any money away from higher-needs schools to reduce class sizes elsewhere. The MCA resolution was drafted by Louise Epstein, who also lives in McLean and narrowly lost to Strauss in the 2011 School Board election.

It seems the battle lines for the 2015 contest for the Dranesville seat are being drawn.

Louise Epstein was the first Republican I have voted for since I moved to Virginia in 1990. If the Democrats don't get their acts together, it looks like I will do so again.