Fairfax County: McLean Citizens Association demands smaller class sizes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smaller class sizes are not the holy grail.

Look at schools in ACPS - average class size in many schools can be under 20 students. In fact, the school that is consistently failing has the smallest class size and has for years.

Does ACPS have as great a range of class sizes though? Can you tell how students grow related to class size? FCPS has classes ranging from 10-37 in the same grade so it's easier to see how reducing class sizes helps. If there is enough research that even with low class sizes, certain students still fail, I think FCPS needs to look at what does help these students succeed and focus on this verses only on class size. And they need to be more transparent about why they've chosen such a disparity in class size from one school to another.

You make it sound like they have a choice to have small class sizes... In at least many of the cases they do not. Title 1 requires the small class sizes.

[Anonymous]

I taught for 12 years. My principal always insisted that the research does not support the idea that smaller classes are more effective. (I don't know that he believed it, though.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smaller class sizes are not the holy grail.

Look at schools in ACPS - average class size in many schools can be under 20 students. In fact, the school that is consistently failing has the smallest class size and has for years.

Does ACPS have as great a range of class sizes though? Can you tell how students grow related to class size? FCPS has classes ranging from 10-37 in the same grade so it's easier to see how reducing class sizes helps. If there is enough research that even with low class sizes, certain students still fail, I think FCPS needs to look at what does help these students succeed and focus on this verses only on class size. And they need to be more transparent about why they've chosen such a disparity in class size from one school to another.

You make it sound like they have a choice to have small class sizes... In at least many of the cases they do not. Title 1 requires the small class sizes.

Not sure what you mean, but FCPS has FARM children in classes of 30 plus and classes of 10. They also have non-FARM children in these same classes. They should be able to determine how much of an effect small class size has on both sets of children since their class sizes vary so much.

[Anonymous]

If the Democrats are smart, Janie Straus will retire and someone else will run. We need someone who has had children (not grandchildren) in the school system in the past 20 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Smaller class sizes are not the holy grail.

Look at schools in ACPS - average class size in many schools can be under 20 students. In fact, the school that is consistently failing has the smallest class size and has for years.

Does ACPS have as great a range of class sizes though? Can you tell how students grow related to class size? FCPS has classes ranging from 10-37 in the same grade so it's easier to see how reducing class sizes helps. If there is enough research that even with low class sizes, certain students still fail, I think FCPS needs to look at what does help these students succeed and focus on this verses only on class size. And they need to be more transparent about why they've chosen such a disparity in class size from one school to another.

You make it sound like they have a choice to have small class sizes... In at least many of the cases they do not. Title 1 requires the small class sizes.

Title I provides dedicated funding. It does not specifically address class sizes. The Virginia Code establishes division-wide caps for different grade levels, and FCPS interprets them to permit super-size classes at individual schools, so long as the averages comply, depending on how you massage the numbers, with the state caps.

[Anonymous]

Teachers always want smaller classes because it means less work for them. Parents always want smaller classes because they think it means more attention for little snowflake. The first sentence is true. The second one probably isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you pay more taxes you should have smaller class sizes

And double votes as well.

+1, you should be able to have a say on how your money is spent even more so than the illegal gumming up the schools systems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you pay more taxes you should have smaller class sizes

And double votes as well.

+1, you should be able to have a say on how your money is spent even more so than the illegal gumming up the schools systems.

Screw that. I say you should only be able to vote if you own property. While we're at it, let's make sure you can't own property if you're not white and male. Where's my sheet and burning cross - I swear I put it around her somewhere. Oh right - I left it under the tree in my yard where the noose is hanging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is amazing. You'd think that it would be uncontroversial to say that 37 students is too many in an elementary school class. Apparently not.

That part is not controversial. I don't hear anyone arguing that 27 kids in a class is a good thing to be aspired to. The part that is controversial is whether it's ok to give Title I schools fewer children per class. Personally, I'm shocked that parents really think the solution to the problem is to make the Title I class sizes bigger because those parents pay less taxes so that the "rich" McLean students can have smaller classes. As a PP said, Title I schools have some large classes too. Why not make it a districtwide issue and force the district to find the funds somewhere to decrease the class sizes. My kids aren't in Title I schools, either (far from it) and they've had class sizes up to 32. I just have a conscience.

[Anonymous]

FCPS says that the cost of reducing the elementary class size formula by just .5 student (from 26.75 to 26.25) would be $7.0 million. See page 14 of the attached.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9T8AWB70B1D4/$file/FY2016Responses%20for%20Posting1-28-15.pdf

I imagine this group is not proposing a tax increase, so the funds for this proposal will have to be cut from somewhere else in the budget. Do they actually identify where the money would come from, or is this just a political "we should get more without having to make any hard decisions" deal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS says that the cost of reducing the elementary class size formula by just .5 student (from 26.75 to 26.25) would be $7.0 million. See page 14 of the attached.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9T8AWB70B1D4/$file/FY2016Responses%20for%20Posting1-28-15.pdf

I imagine this group is not proposing a tax increase, so the funds for this proposal will have to be cut from somewhere else in the budget. Do they actually identify where the money would come from, or is this just a political "we should get more without having to make any hard decisions" deal?

Perhaps this is an indication that they would support a tax increase. I'm not in Mclean, but I would support one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I taught for 12 years. My principal always insisted that the research does not support the idea that smaller classes are more effective. (I don't know that he believed it, though.)

The reaesrch I have seen has defined large class to be in the 24-27 student range, not 29-34 (or higher).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS says that the cost of reducing the elementary class size formula by just .5 student (from 26.75 to 26.25) would be $7.0 million. See page 14 of the attached.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9T8AWB70B1D4/$file/FY2016Responses%20for%20Posting1-28-15.pdf

I imagine this group is not proposing a tax increase, so the funds for this proposal will have to be cut from somewhere else in the budget. Do they actually identify where the money would come from, or is this just a political "we should get more without having to make any hard decisions" deal?

Yes, in a roundabout way, they explain where the savings will come from. The resolution is that no elementary class should be smaller than 21 students. So, that is where savings will come from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is amazing. You'd think that it would be uncontroversial to say that 37 students is too many in an elementary school class. Apparently not.

That part is not controversial. I don't hear anyone arguing that 27 kids in a class is a good thing to be aspired to. The part that is controversial is whether it's ok to give Title I schools fewer children per class. Personally, I'm shocked that parents really think the solution to the problem is to make the Title I class sizes bigger because those parents pay less taxes so that the "rich" McLean students can have smaller classes. As a PP said, Title I schools have some large classes too. Why not make it a districtwide issue and force the district to find the funds somewhere to decrease the class sizes. My kids aren't in Title I schools, either (far from it) and they've had class sizes up to 32. I just have a conscience.

The only thing that's being discussed are district-wide reforms in staffing formulas and the authority given to principals to spend discretionary funds. If you think the MCA resolution only deals with schools in McLean, you did not read it carefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I taught for 12 years. My principal always insisted that the research does not support the idea that smaller classes are more effective. (I don't know that he believed it, though.)

The reaesrch I have seen has defined large class to be in the 24-27 student range, not 29-34 (or higher).

This is correct. No one studies class sizes above that range because...it would be ridiculous and crazy to have such big elementary school classes-no point in researching that.