Do atheists have souls?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we say that whatever belief system or nonbelief system that leads people to try and be better people ( in all of those abstract ways of kindness, charity, respect] is of value?

Can the believer look at an atheist and say, you're trying to live your life according to a value system and so am I, and leave it at that?

Can the atheist look at the believer and say, I don't agree with you but there is good intent, and leave it at that?

It seems to me that if we accept that other men and women are whole people, different in some ways but often similar, that we can move closer to acceptance and civility.

If people come to feel that way about others, fine, but there is usually more to it than that. Some believers really feel and are taught by their faith that they have an obligation to save people's souls. In some cases their faith teaching them that people of other faiths or no faith are acutely less moral than they are and are a danger to society. No statistics or scientific evidence to the contrary will convince them otherwise, because their faith teaches them something different.

Some atheists strongly feel that teaching supernatural beliefs to children is harmful and that perpetuating the idea that such beliefs are valuable is harmful to society.

Also please consider that the basic "value system" of atheists and many varieties of religious believers is very much the same about most issues - (honesty, morality,compassion, etc) The differences come in the unsubstantiated beliefs (miracles, claims of divinity, power of prayer, etc) and the sometimes conflicting beliefs (my son of God is your prophet, who is someone else's Jewish carpenter and yet other person's myth based on earlier myths)

I'll give you that it was a very simplistic idea I put out there, but it makes a good starting point.

I'm not trying to convert you or anyone else. But we can still talk about my belief in God without being told I'm mistaken out of hand. And an atheist can tell me why they side with science over theology and I don't need to debate him/her. A statement of belief can stand on its own.

What does it matter to you if some people think your beliefs are mistaken? In fact you already know that (and think it about some other people's beliefs) so what's the point of not acknowledging it. It makes me wonder if your beliefs are so fragile that hearing about others beliefs shakes your beliefs. Or maybe it's just a social convention that you've become accustomed to and don't want to change.

Can you give an example what what you'd like to say about your beliefs and what responses are acceptable and not acceptable?

If you say you love something (whatever - skiing, broccoli, jazz) and someone her or irl says they hate it, is that person out of line?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well. I'm an atheist and I feel like I have a soul, but I guess I don't know exactly what a soul is. Most of my family are atheists. We all give back to our communities a lot and help people in need either through our careers or voluntarily. Does that mean we have souls and will be saved if we're wrong!!!

No. You have to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior in order to be saved and be granted access to the Kingdom of Heaven. You are a sinner, for we are all sinners. Repent.

And this is why people hate Christians. Even makes me want to burn you on the stake a little bit.

And the persecution of Christians continues. What a hateful thing to say. God loves you. Why don't you love Him back?

Burn me at the stake? Wow. I guess I'll turn the other cheek. But I hope you find the Good News and some joy and grace in your life, for you sound like you're not a good person.

My Good News is that I haven't wasted my life living it according to fairy tales. Really, I feel sad for people who do, I mean, how much of a non-thinker do you have to be to believe this stuff?

[Anonymous]

People engaged in this discussion about morality with and wothout God might enjoy listening to the debates and talks listed here: http://veritas.org/talks/?view=topics&topic=Morality

The organization is christian-based but the speakers (generally pretty good) are of all sorts and debates hosted at major universities in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we say that whatever belief system or nonbelief system that leads people to try and be better people ( in all of those abstract ways of kindness, charity, respect] is of value?

Can the believer look at an atheist and say, you're trying to live your life according to a value system and so am I, and leave it at that?

Can the atheist look at the believer and say, I don't agree with you but there is good intent, and leave it at that?

It seems to me that if we accept that other men and women are whole people, different in some ways but often similar, that we can move closer to acceptance and civility.

If people come to feel that way about others, fine, but there is usually more to it than that. Some believers really feel and are taught by their faith that they have an obligation to save people's souls. In some cases their faith teaching them that people of other faiths or no faith are acutely less moral than they are and are a danger to society. No statistics or scientific evidence to the contrary will convince them otherwise, because their faith teaches them something different.

Some atheists strongly feel that teaching supernatural beliefs to children is harmful and that perpetuating the idea that such beliefs are valuable is harmful to society.

Also please consider that the basic "value system" of atheists and many varieties of religious believers is very much the same about most issues - (honesty, morality,compassion, etc) The differences come in the unsubstantiated beliefs (miracles, claims of divinity, power of prayer, etc) and the sometimes conflicting beliefs (my son of God is your prophet, who is someone else's Jewish carpenter and yet other person's myth based on earlier myths)

I'll give you that it was a very simplistic idea I put out there, but it makes a good starting point.

I'm not trying to convert you or anyone else. But we can still talk about my belief in God without being told I'm mistaken out of hand. And an atheist can tell me why they side with science over theology and I don't need to debate him/her. A statement of belief can stand on its own.

What does it matter to you if some people think your beliefs are mistaken? In fact you already know that (and think it about some other people's beliefs) so what's the point of not acknowledging it. It makes me wonder if your beliefs are so fragile that hearing about others beliefs shakes your beliefs. Or maybe it's just a social convention that you've become accustomed to and don't want to change.

Can you give an example what what you'd like to say about your beliefs and what responses are acceptable and not acceptable?

If you say you love something (whatever - skiing, broccoli, jazz) and someone her or irl says they hate it, is that person out of line?

I'm not trying to change minds here. I'm saying we all can declare our positions without an immediate counter from the opposite side. You can be against my religion, you can hate my religion, you can hate me because of my religion. It isn't going to shake my faith or make me hate you.

I can hear you. I want to hear you when you tell me about your beliefs. I want to think about the things you say and get a better feel for them and for you. At the least, shouldn't I be given a chance to describe where I'm coming from without the immediate posts about how I'm mistaken? I already know you think I'm mistaken. That's clear. But we never move forward when the dialogue is shut down by sniping.

[Anonymous]

Also the post at 16:17 is an example of being closed off to a reasonable discussion. I don't know if that was you.

[Anonymous]

Atheist here. I sold my soul to the devil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Atheist here. I sold my soul to the devil.

There is no upside to that. Horrible strategy no matter what the truth is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well. I'm an atheist and I feel like I have a soul, but I guess I don't know exactly what a soul is. Most of my family are atheists. We all give back to our communities a lot and help people in need either through our careers or voluntarily. Does that mean we have souls and will be saved if we're wrong!!!

No. You have to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior in order to be saved and be granted access to the Kingdom of Heaven. You are a sinner, for we are all sinners. Repent.

And this is why people hate Christians. Even makes me want to burn you on the stake a little bit.

And the persecution of Christians continues. What a hateful thing to say. God loves you. Why don't you love Him back?

Burn me at the stake? Wow. I guess I'll turn the other cheek. But I hope you find the Good News and some joy and grace in your life, for you sound like you're not a good person.

My Good News is that I haven't wasted my life living it according to fairy tales. Really, I feel sad for people who do, I mean, how much of a non-thinker do you have to be to believe this stuff?

If you're not religious, you'd be surprised at how well people can compartmentalize. They can be very good, logical thinkers in areas of their life where that is needed, and go completely faith-based when it comes to religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also the post at 16:17 is an example of being closed off to a reasonable discussion. I don't know if that was you.

it wasn't me. surely you've seen religious people doing the same sort of thing. It's a matter of personality, or attitude about their beliefs, or perhaps a phase some people are going through

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist here. I sold my soul to the devil.

There is no upside to that. Horrible strategy no matter what the truth is.

maybe it's just a questionable attempt at humor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we say that whatever belief system or nonbelief system that leads people to try and be better people ( in all of those abstract ways of kindness, charity, respect] is of value?

Can the believer look at an atheist and say, you're trying to live your life according to a value system and so am I, and leave it at that?

Can the atheist look at the believer and say, I don't agree with you but there is good intent, and leave it at that?

It seems to me that if we accept that other men and women are whole people, different in some ways but often similar, that we can move closer to acceptance and civility.

If people come to feel that way about others, fine, but there is usually more to it than that. Some believers really feel and are taught by their faith that they have an obligation to save people's souls. In some cases their faith teaching them that people of other faiths or no faith are acutely less moral than they are and are a danger to society. No statistics or scientific evidence to the contrary will convince them otherwise, because their faith teaches them something different.

Some atheists strongly feel that teaching supernatural beliefs to children is harmful and that perpetuating the idea that such beliefs are valuable is harmful to society.

Also please consider that the basic "value system" of atheists and many varieties of religious believers is very much the same about most issues - (honesty, morality,compassion, etc) The differences come in the unsubstantiated beliefs (miracles, claims of divinity, power of prayer, etc) and the sometimes conflicting beliefs (my son of God is your prophet, who is someone else's Jewish carpenter and yet other person's myth based on earlier myths)

I'll give you that it was a very simplistic idea I put out there, but it makes a good starting point.

I'm not trying to convert you or anyone else. But we can still talk about my belief in God without being told I'm mistaken out of hand. And an atheist can tell me why they side with science over theology and I don't need to debate him/her. A statement of belief can stand on its own.

What does it matter to you if some people think your beliefs are mistaken? In fact you already know that (and think it about some other people's beliefs) so what's the point of not acknowledging it. It makes me wonder if your beliefs are so fragile that hearing about others beliefs shakes your beliefs. Or maybe it's just a social convention that you've become accustomed to and don't want to change.

Can you give an example what what you'd like to say about your beliefs and what responses are acceptable and not acceptable?

If you say you love something (whatever - skiing, broccoli, jazz) and someone her or irl says they hate it, is that person out of line?

I'm not trying to change minds here. I'm saying we all can declare our positions without an immediate counter from the opposite side. You can be against my religion, you can hate my religion, you can hate me because of my religion. It isn't going to shake my faith or make me hate you.

I can hear you. I want to hear you when you tell me about your beliefs. I want to think about the things you say and get a better feel for them and for you. At the least, shouldn't I be given a chance to describe where I'm coming from without the immediate posts about how I'm mistaken? I already know you think I'm mistaken. That's clear. But we never move forward when the dialogue is shut down by sniping.

For most atheists, their "beliefs" are very simple -- they don't believe in god. Other than that, they have all the same sorts of beliefs about things that other people have. They do not believe in the supernatural.

While I might not know exactly where YOU are coming from, many atheists, having once been religious themselves, know a lot about where religious people are coming from and don't want or need to hear about it in depth. Even atheists who were raised without religion, live in a society permeated by religion so know more about it the religious people know about atheism. Plus many religions say false things about atheists -- no morals, etc, so religious people can have a false and negative impression of atheists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist here. I sold my soul to the devil.

There is no upside to that. Horrible strategy no matter what the truth is.

maybe it's just a questionable attempt at humor

Well...obviously. An Atheist wouldn't believe in the devil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist here. I sold my soul to the devil.

There is no upside to that. Horrible strategy no matter what the truth is.

Depends on what he sold it for...

I can think of a few things that might be worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist here. I sold my soul to the devil.

There is no upside to that. Horrible strategy no matter what the truth is.

maybe it's just a questionable attempt at humor

Well...obviously. An Atheist wouldn't believe in the devil.

Haha - or a soul!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

For most atheists, their "beliefs" are very simple -- they don't believe in god. Other than that, they have all the same sorts of beliefs about things that other people have. They do not believe in the supernatural.

While I might not know exactly where YOU are coming from, many atheists, having once been religious themselves, know a lot about where religious people are coming from and don't want or need to hear about it in depth. Even atheists who were raised without religion, live in a society permeated by religion so know more about it the religious people know about atheism. Plus many religions say false things about atheists -- no morals, etc, so religious people can have a false and negative impression of atheists.

Thanks for the civil post. As I said earlier, I'm not working to sway or convert anyone. And as it is a mistake to lump all atheists together, it is also a mistake to lump all believers together. What keeps me coming back here is the hope that adults can have a conversation about faith (organized or otherwise) or moral constructs (organized or otherwise) and leave the petty name-calling and nastiness aside.