AAP decisions in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

The AART at her school has indicated that she will be surprised if DD doesn't get into AAP subject-specific math if she wasn't going to be in full-time services. Math has never been the area of concern for her. The 87th percentile seems well above average to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the HOPE is terrible and so subjective. GBRS was much more thorough and focused on academics and the teachers actually had to write about the child.

HOPE is just checking boxes and how can a teacher possibly know much in a class of 28 students. One of the category is ‘shows self awareness’. Seriously? How do you even assess that and what is self awareness in a 7 yr old? Another is “sensitive to larger issues of human concern”. Again what do you expect from a 7 yr old and how is a teacher monitoring this?

I think you can see self awareness and sensitivity to larger human concerns in 7 year olds. I certainly see it in mine and in her friends.

For self-awareness, when she is upset about something, she usually knows how to articulate what's bothering her and what tools she needs to use to handle it (talking to an adult, alone time, breathing, eating a snack). When a friend is upset with her, she can usually figure out why and take steps to apologize for her behavior. Many of her friends can also do this internally (self-awareness), but some can't yet and need an adult to explain.

For sensitivity to larger issues, my daughter is very curious about other peoples' motivations and beliefs in ways that I definitely wasn't at her age. Honestly, I know people love to hate on the religious holidays on the calendar, but I think having those days off has helped her understand that not everyone is like her and to investigate the multiculturalism of our society in ways that I wasn't prompted to do at her age. She asks about housing and homelessness, about gerrymandering (because of all the commercials and signs about voting), about the Iran war and what life is like at war here vs. living near the warzone, about which friends celebrate Easter and which ones were fasting for Ramadan, and which ones celebrate Passover and why they are all different.

There are other test scores and work samples to show the student's academics. I think these intangibles about the child's maturity and intellectual curiosity are important too. And I say all this as someone whose child didn't get into full time AAP.

My daughter is a very curious and empathic child too. But you are talking about your child here and of course you interact with her on an individual level and know her best. My issue is how is a teacher supposed to assess all these qualities in a class with 28 kids where most of the time is spent working on math, reading, specials or at lunch. These are great qualities to have but a shy and introverted child would probably score very poorly on these even though he or she might be very intellectually curious and empathic.

I work in a school and even though I'm not a teacher in the classroom with kids every day, I can see these things in them. Teachers have even more opportunity to see how they interact in group work and individual work, the kinds of questions they ask, the subjects they naturally excel at and the content they struggle with. Yes, a shy kid runs a greater risk of being overlooked, but the teacher will still see the empathy and curiosity reflected in her written work, even if the child isn't raising her hand often to speak in class. And that zoomed-in level of attention to the child is also what the parent questionnaire is for, so the parents can let the committee know what the child is like more in-depth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

I’m curious about MAP percentiles and advanced ability, though I may be wrong. Since MAP is adaptive, students who do well get harder questions, so those in the 99th percentile are likely working above 2nd-grade level. Doesn't this imply some exposure to extra math outside school? If so, MAP shouldn’t be a strict cutoff - it’s just another data point, and teachers should be able to override it if they see great potential. Otherwise, it puts talented kids who don’t have extra math at home at a disadvantage.

It's nationally normed, so there likely aren't many kids doing outside enrichment in the norming group. As a result, FCPS will have vastly many more kids score 99th percentile than would be expected. Also, most 3rd or even 4th grade math is just a logical extension of 2nd grade math. Kids who are naturally bright in math can figure out a lot of the 3rd and 4th grade level problems without being explicitly taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the HOPE is terrible and so subjective. GBRS was much more thorough and focused on academics and the teachers actually had to write about the child.

HOPE is just checking boxes and how can a teacher possibly know much in a class of 28 students. One of the category is ‘shows self awareness’. Seriously? How do you even assess that and what is self awareness in a 7 yr old? Another is “sensitive to larger issues of human concern”. Again what do you expect from a 7 yr old and how is a teacher monitoring this?

I think you can see self awareness and sensitivity to larger human concerns in 7 year olds. I certainly see it in mine and in her friends.

For self-awareness, when she is upset about something, she usually knows how to articulate what's bothering her and what tools she needs to use to handle it (talking to an adult, alone time, breathing, eating a snack). When a friend is upset with her, she can usually figure out why and take steps to apologize for her behavior. Many of her friends can also do this internally (self-awareness), but some can't yet and need an adult to explain.

For sensitivity to larger issues, my daughter is very curious about other peoples' motivations and beliefs in ways that I definitely wasn't at her age. Honestly, I know people love to hate on the religious holidays on the calendar, but I think having those days off has helped her understand that not everyone is like her and to investigate the multiculturalism of our society in ways that I wasn't prompted to do at her age. She asks about housing and homelessness, about gerrymandering (because of all the commercials and signs about voting), about the Iran war and what life is like at war here vs. living near the warzone, about which friends celebrate Easter and which ones were fasting for Ramadan, and which ones celebrate Passover and why they are all different.

There are other test scores and work samples to show the student's academics. I think these intangibles about the child's maturity and intellectual curiosity are important too. And I say all this as someone whose child didn't get into full time AAP.

My daughter is a very curious and empathic child too. But you are talking about your child here and of course you interact with her on an individual level and know her best. My issue is how is a teacher supposed to assess all these qualities in a class with 28 kids where most of the time is spent working on math, reading, specials or at lunch. These are great qualities to have but a shy and introverted child would probably score very poorly on these even though he or she might be very intellectually curious and empathic.

I work in a school and even though I'm not a teacher in the classroom with kids every day, I can see these things in them. Teachers have even more opportunity to see how they interact in group work and individual work, the kinds of questions they ask, the subjects they naturally excel at and the content they struggle with. Yes, a shy kid runs a greater risk of being overlooked, but the teacher will still see the empathy and curiosity reflected in her written work, even if the child isn't raising her hand often to speak in class. And that zoomed-in level of attention to the child is also what the parent questionnaire is for, so the parents can let the committee know what the child is like more in-depth.

Teachers may see all of this. There are also many reasons why a teacher might give low ratings to a kid who actually is gifted and even to one who is displaying all of this in the classroom. The teacher might be racist or sexist. They might just dislike specific kids or overly like others. Quiet kids might be drowned out by the pushier kids. The teacher might be overwhelmed by a lot of below grade level/ESOL kids. The teacher might be brand new to teaching in general.

Teacher ratings should certainly be used to boost kids into AAP who otherwise don't have the test scores. It's absurd to use it to keep kids out who are 99th percentile across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

There have to be kids in AAP who are below the 99th percentile and get some 3s on their report cards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

I’m curious about MAP percentiles and advanced ability, though I may be wrong. Since MAP is adaptive, students who do well get harder questions, so those in the 99th percentile are likely working above 2nd-grade level. Doesn't this imply some exposure to extra math outside school? If so, MAP shouldn’t be a strict cutoff - it’s just another data point, and teachers should be able to override it if they see great potential. Otherwise, it puts talented kids who don’t have extra math at home at a disadvantage.

It's nationally normed, so there likely aren't many kids doing outside enrichment in the norming group. As a result, FCPS will have vastly many more kids score 99th percentile than would be expected. Also, most 3rd or even 4th grade math is just a logical extension of 2nd grade math. Kids who are naturally bright in math can figure out a lot of the 3rd and 4th grade level problems without being explicitly taught.

I would say 2nd grade math is addition and subtraction. As far as I understand, going forward it's going to be multiplication and division. Bright kids may or may not venture into this depending on their circumstances. But again, I am not a teacher/expert/etc just curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

There have to be kids in AAP who are below the 99th percentile and get some 3s on their report cards.

100%! But parents of those kids wouldn’t dare to share those scores here. DCurbanmoms' kids are all in the 99th percentile across the board!

[Anonymous]

I shocked by kid's HOPE scores. They are not at all what my husband and I see. (They are good, but not in the always line.)

My kid has a first year teacher. Should I just ask her what she is seeing?

On sports and everything else (play dates) she is 100% a leader. She can interact perfectly with adults and older kids (and DOES so a lot because older sibling). And so on . . .

What is the best way to appeal something like this? Input welcome!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

There have to be kids in AAP who are below the 99th percentile and get some 3s on their report cards.

100%! But parents of those kids wouldn’t dare to share those scores here. DCurbanmoms' kids are all in the 99th percentile across the board!

No need for anyone to share, AAP class takes about 20% of kids, not 1% of the grade. In my kids’ AAP classes we clearly see who took the in pool kids’ spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

There have to be kids in AAP who are below the 99th percentile and get some 3s on their report cards.

There are kids below the 99th percentile. We know that. How many are at the 87th percentile? Maybe some at lower SES schools but not too many at higher SES schools. The cut off for AAP in-pool used to be a county wide 132, that was at the low end of the 99th percentile and that was the cut off.

There is nothing wrong with a score in the 87th percentile, it is a strong score. It is not a score that I would expect for the vast majority of kids in AAP. I would expect kids to be in the 95th percentile or higher on the iReady or MAP or other standardized test scores.

Until 2 years ago You needed a 91st percentile on the IAAT to get into Algebra in 7th grade. The reality is that there are more then enough kids in FCPS with MAP scores and iReady scores and other test scores that are in the 95th percentile or higher that a student scoring in the 87th percentile is less likely to make their way into AAP based on that test score.

The posters child is good at math. The test score is not one that most people who know AAP would say would get them into AAP. I am not sure why the Teacher would mark the kid the way that they did with that score unless they are at a Title 1 or near Title 1 school what has far fewer kids in the 95th percentile or above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

There have to be kids in AAP who are below the 99th percentile and get some 3s on their report cards.

There are kids below the 99th percentile. We know that. How many are at the 87th percentile? Maybe some at lower SES schools but not too many at higher SES schools. The cut off for AAP in-pool used to be a county wide 132, that was at the low end of the 99th percentile and that was the cut off.

There is nothing wrong with a score in the 87th percentile, it is a strong score. It is not a score that I would expect for the vast majority of kids in AAP. I would expect kids to be in the 95th percentile or higher on the iReady or MAP or other standardized test scores.

Until 2 years ago You needed a 91st percentile on the IAAT to get into Algebra in 7th grade. The reality is that there are more then enough kids in FCPS with MAP scores and iReady scores and other test scores that are in the 95th percentile or higher that a student scoring in the 87th percentile is less likely to make their way into AAP based on that test score.

The posters child is good at math. The test score is not one that most people who know AAP would say would get them into AAP. I am not sure why the Teacher would mark the kid the way that they did with that score unless they are at a Title 1 or near Title 1 school what has far fewer kids in the 95th percentile or above.

Or may be it’s because the teacher observes the child 5 days a week for months and has a different perspective vs a computer based test for a 7 yo

[Anonymous]

You can be good at math and not ready for accelerated math and AAP.

Most school districts set their G&T programs at kids in the 90th percentile, the posters child would not qualify at many programs across the country.

The child is smart but that doesn’t mean the meet the criteria for AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We applied in third grade for second time and not in.

Did you submit a parent referral or a teacher referral?

Its totally 100% ok to not get in! Just have your kid work on supplemental math and they will probably be at the same level in math at 7th grade!

We are in AAP 6th grade now, and my kid will go into pre-algebra in 7th grade.... just like half of the non-aap kids, who will also go into pre-algebra in 7th grade.

Math is really the only difference

The AAP social studies means you get to learn the top 3 cash crops of the thirteen colonies instead of just the top cash crop, you probably red an extra book per year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:we were in-pool. Didn't get in.

If you were in pool and your kid is not disruptive or have behavioral issues, I would appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can be good at math and not ready for accelerated math and AAP.

Most school districts set their G&T programs at kids in the 90th percentile, the posters child would not qualify at many programs across the country.

The child is smart but that doesn’t mean the meet the criteria for AAP.

That's not what the local committee decided when they checked that box! But you know better of course..