AAP decisions in

[Anonymous]

One more thing, the GBRS had similar moments for parents. We had a good friends kid in class with ours. High test scores but the GBRS were not good, like don’t observe the trait not good. The Mom told me it felt like her kid was not smart. She was discouraged. Her kid is smart, he is not motivated academically but can do any of the work he is given. He isn’t motivated to do much outside of school, doesn’t like doing homework, and would generally be happy being in classes that are not challenging so he had more time to goof off and hang out. He was in pool during the 132 days and always did well in school, still does well in school. He just doesn’t care about school or being challenged.

We can argue about who needs AAP and the like until we are blue in the face, but sometimes the bright kids who test well and would do well are not motivated and don’t stand out. My sons friend complained about Level III and Advanced Math because he had to work more, but he did well in them. He is doing well in all Honors now but has not found anything at school that drives him. He is happy enough. He’ll take some AP classes in HS and go to a good college an do fine in life.

[Anonymous]

4th grader - in AAP. We didn't get in on 2nd grade with high scores, third grade we didn't bother to apply and 4th grade the AAP teacher told us to apply so we did.
Honestly, I really think the teacher recommendation outweigh the test scores. Our 2nd grade teacher was so-so but our third and fourth grade teacher was the best and believe in our kid should be in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for clarifying about the questions I asked about those boxes (subject recommendations).
What amazes is that despite my kid being in the pool for full time AAP, good scores on his tests - NNAT, NGAT, MAP, VALS, mostly 4s on his report card, he still didn't get any recommendation for any subject. I was hoping he would get recommendation for Math at least since his NGAT Quantitative, MAPs scores are all in 98%-99% percentile.

They are comparing your kid against his classmates. If you are at a school with a lot of kids with high scores, then they are comparing your kid against all those high score kids. They are not looking at test scores for the HOPE but what they see in the classroom compared against the other kids in the class.

The GBRS were individual assessments based on certain traits, the HOPE is a comparison. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are told that there are only so many kids in the class who can score high so you end up with a lot of kids in the middle areas. It doesn’t mean that they are not smart and capable but that there are other kids who are ahead of them in their class. At least, that is my understanding.

I think it should be a county wide standard. It is ridiculous to compare it against kids in your own school, because by middle school it is all mixed. I sub and see some AAP kids so behind my own kid. My kid not in AAP, but when they get to middle school they will be at the same school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for clarifying about the questions I asked about those boxes (subject recommendations).
What amazes is that despite my kid being in the pool for full time AAP, good scores on his tests - NNAT, NGAT, MAP, VALS, mostly 4s on his report card, he still didn't get any recommendation for any subject. I was hoping he would get recommendation for Math at least since his NGAT Quantitative, MAPs scores are all in 98%-99% percentile.

They are comparing your kid against his classmates. If you are at a school with a lot of kids with high scores, then they are comparing your kid against all those high score kids. They are not looking at test scores for the HOPE but what they see in the classroom compared against the other kids in the class.

The GBRS were individual assessments based on certain traits, the HOPE is a comparison. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are told that there are only so many kids in the class who can score high so you end up with a lot of kids in the middle areas. It doesn’t mean that they are not smart and capable but that there are other kids who are ahead of them in their class. At least, that is my understanding.

I think it should be a county wide standard. It is ridiculous to compare it against kids in your own school, because by middle school it is all mixed. I sub and see some AAP kids so behind my own kid. My kid not in AAP, but when they get to middle school they will be at the same school.

They moved from a county wide standard (ish) towards more comparing kids within a school specifically based on recommendations for things like closing achievement gaps and racial representation. The 2020 report on AAP was big on it.

My friends who are high school teachers say you can't tell the difference between kids who did AAP and kids who didn't in AP classes. AAP was good to keep my kids from getting bored in elementary school math, but I didn't view it as putting them ahead in any meaningful way.

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for your responses to my question. It's sad that these young kids are compared this way. My kid likes challenges and we were hoping AAP could provide him that and avoid getting bored.
DC often tells me that he already knows the materials he is taught in class especially Math.

[Anonymous]

I think the HOPE is terrible and so subjective. GBRS was much more thorough and focused on academics and the teachers actually had to write about the child.

HOPE is just checking boxes and how can a teacher possibly know much in a class of 28 students. One of the category is ‘shows self awareness’. Seriously? How do you even assess that and what is self awareness in a 7 yr old? Another is “sensitive to larger issues of human concern”. Again what do you expect from a 7 yr old and how is a teacher monitoring this?

[Anonymous]

My daughter went through GBRS when she went through the same Full Time AAP process. It was so much easier to understand. She got numerical scores against various criteria.
I agree what you say about 7 year old getting evaluated on HOPE scale. Kids at that age are go through various moods and emotions at times. You are correct about how is the teacher monitoring everything. Our teacher is not present during lunch time, not always watching during recess...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the HOPE is terrible and so subjective. GBRS was much more thorough and focused on academics and the teachers actually had to write about the child.

HOPE is just checking boxes and how can a teacher possibly know much in a class of 28 students. One of the category is ‘shows self awareness’. Seriously? How do you even assess that and what is self awareness in a 7 yr old? Another is “sensitive to larger issues of human concern”. Again what do you expect from a 7 yr old and how is a teacher monitoring this?

I agree with this whole sentiment so much. Our kid was in pool last year and didn't get in. Her HOPE score was good, not great. This year same level of test scores, but her HOPE scores came back more favorable...and she didn't change that much. Honestly she had a newish teacher last year and a more seasoned teacher this year. This year's teacher told us to apply for AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for clarifying about the questions I asked about those boxes (subject recommendations).
What amazes is that despite my kid being in the pool for full time AAP, good scores on his tests - NNAT, NGAT, MAP, VALS, mostly 4s on his report card, he still didn't get any recommendation for any subject. I was hoping he would get recommendation for Math at least since his NGAT Quantitative, MAPs scores are all in 98%-99% percentile.

They are comparing your kid against his classmates. If you are at a school with a lot of kids with high scores, then they are comparing your kid against all those high score kids. They are not looking at test scores for the HOPE but what they see in the classroom compared against the other kids in the class.

The GBRS were individual assessments based on certain traits, the HOPE is a comparison. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are told that there are only so many kids in the class who can score high so you end up with a lot of kids in the middle areas. It doesn’t mean that they are not smart and capable but that there are other kids who are ahead of them in their class. At least, that is my understanding.

I think it should be a county wide standard. It is ridiculous to compare it against kids in your own school, because by middle school it is all mixed. I sub and see some AAP kids so behind my own kid. My kid not in AAP, but when they get to middle school they will be at the same school.

Most ES feeding into the Centers are coming from similar backgrounds. They want the kids who are at the top of their class to have the opportunity to move at a pace that makes sense for them and that is going to be different based on the ESs feeding into the feeder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the HOPE is terrible and so subjective. GBRS was much more thorough and focused on academics and the teachers actually had to write about the child.

HOPE is just checking boxes and how can a teacher possibly know much in a class of 28 students. One of the category is ‘shows self awareness’. Seriously? How do you even assess that and what is self awareness in a 7 yr old? Another is “sensitive to larger issues of human concern”. Again what do you expect from a 7 yr old and how is a teacher monitoring this?

I was also surprised to see these questions, and the ones in GBRS to me seemed more reasonable. And you are right, we are talking about 7 year olds, which is insane on its own.

Teacher's input is one of the most important parameters. Teachers know the whole class and have seen many second graders over their career, they observe day to day progress, and tbh they know how our kids behave in class while we only know what our kids report to us.. Parents are naturally biased, tests don't paint the whole picture. But there is probably no way to make it 100% objective though.

Holistic it is

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the HOPE is terrible and so subjective. GBRS was much more thorough and focused on academics and the teachers actually had to write about the child.

HOPE is just checking boxes and how can a teacher possibly know much in a class of 28 students. One of the category is ‘shows self awareness’. Seriously? How do you even assess that and what is self awareness in a 7 yr old? Another is “sensitive to larger issues of human concern”. Again what do you expect from a 7 yr old and how is a teacher monitoring this?

I think you can see self awareness and sensitivity to larger human concerns in 7 year olds. I certainly see it in mine and in her friends.

For self-awareness, when she is upset about something, she usually knows how to articulate what's bothering her and what tools she needs to use to handle it (talking to an adult, alone time, breathing, eating a snack). When a friend is upset with her, she can usually figure out why and take steps to apologize for her behavior. Many of her friends can also do this internally (self-awareness), but some can't yet and need an adult to explain.

For sensitivity to larger issues, my daughter is very curious about other peoples' motivations and beliefs in ways that I definitely wasn't at her age. Honestly, I know people love to hate on the religious holidays on the calendar, but I think having those days off has helped her understand that not everyone is like her and to investigate the multiculturalism of our society in ways that I wasn't prompted to do at her age. She asks about housing and homelessness, about gerrymandering (because of all the commercials and signs about voting), about the Iran war and what life is like at war here vs. living near the warzone, about which friends celebrate Easter and which ones were fasting for Ramadan, and which ones celebrate Passover and why they are all different.

There are other test scores and work samples to show the student's academics. I think these intangibles about the child's maturity and intellectual curiosity are important too. And I say all this as someone whose child didn't get into full time AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the HOPE is terrible and so subjective. GBRS was much more thorough and focused on academics and the teachers actually had to write about the child.

HOPE is just checking boxes and how can a teacher possibly know much in a class of 28 students. One of the category is ‘shows self awareness’. Seriously? How do you even assess that and what is self awareness in a 7 yr old? Another is “sensitive to larger issues of human concern”. Again what do you expect from a 7 yr old and how is a teacher monitoring this?

I think you can see self awareness and sensitivity to larger human concerns in 7 year olds. I certainly see it in mine and in her friends.

For self-awareness, when she is upset about something, she usually knows how to articulate what's bothering her and what tools she needs to use to handle it (talking to an adult, alone time, breathing, eating a snack). When a friend is upset with her, she can usually figure out why and take steps to apologize for her behavior. Many of her friends can also do this internally (self-awareness), but some can't yet and need an adult to explain.

For sensitivity to larger issues, my daughter is very curious about other peoples' motivations and beliefs in ways that I definitely wasn't at her age. Honestly, I know people love to hate on the religious holidays on the calendar, but I think having those days off has helped her understand that not everyone is like her and to investigate the multiculturalism of our society in ways that I wasn't prompted to do at her age. She asks about housing and homelessness, about gerrymandering (because of all the commercials and signs about voting), about the Iran war and what life is like at war here vs. living near the warzone, about which friends celebrate Easter and which ones were fasting for Ramadan, and which ones celebrate Passover and why they are all different.

There are other test scores and work samples to show the student's academics. I think these intangibles about the child's maturity and intellectual curiosity are important too. And I say all this as someone whose child didn't get into full time AAP.

My daughter is a very curious and empathic child too. But you are talking about your child here and of course you interact with her on an individual level and know her best. My issue is how is a teacher supposed to assess all these qualities in a class with 28 kids where most of the time is spent working on math, reading, specials or at lunch. These are great qualities to have but a shy and introverted child would probably score very poorly on these even though he or she might be very intellectually curious and empathic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does the section under the HOPE rating - "Please indicate all content areas where the students show ....." imply? Do full time AAP eligible students usually have checks against the boxes next to the subjects (Math, Writing, Reading,...) ? Do these boxes indicate subject level AAP recommendations?

DD has boxes checked for math, writing, reading, science, and social studies, and the comment underneath noted that she made significant growth on her winter MAP math assessment (she's in the 87th percentile).

She gets 4s and some 3s on her report cards.

The 87th percentile on the MAP is not a kid who should have the math box checked unless they are at a Title 1 school. That is a good overall score but a low score for even Advanced Math, never mind AAP. Toss in 3's on the report card and that is not a kid who I would think would be accepted into AAP.

I’m curious about MAP percentiles and advanced ability, though I may be wrong. Since MAP is adaptive, students who do well get harder questions, so those in the 99th percentile are likely working above 2nd-grade level. Doesn't this imply some exposure to extra math outside school? If so, MAP shouldn’t be a strict cutoff - it’s just another data point, and teachers should be able to override it if they see great potential. Otherwise, it puts talented kids who don’t have extra math at home at a disadvantage.