NYT: "The Trouble with Men"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Whoever said "They need to hold the mental load" said that it was hard. If a "mental load" is not a hard thing to bear then why do we hear so many complaints about it in this forum? Why are you all so mad at your DHs if increasing the mental load does not make life harder for you?

DNGAF what your (probably imaginary) "studies" have shown. I work FT and still did (and do) the bulk of the kid stuff. And yes I initiate it because if I left it up to DW then it would never get done or she'd half-ass it. I don't find it "time consuming" enough that it bothers me. Sounds like you're just bad at it.

The way you simultaneously put yourself on a pedestal for doing all these things that almost no husbands do, and disparage the women that do the exact same things is a crazy disconnect. Does it only count because you have a penis or is it the same responsibilities that almost every other mother in the us handles?

[Anonymous]

The basic problem is that a lot of women maybe most nowadays seem to think they should magically have access to their choice of what they feel is a desirable man. But there aren't enough to go around. It's supply and demand. If you're not getting the kind of man you want, maybe you yourself don't bring enough to the relationship table. After all, everyone complaining here CANT be all that. It's just statistics.

[Anonymous]

I'd love to know how many hours women spend while at their job arranging doctors appointments, filling out school paperwork, ordering groceries, online shopping for birthday presents, family travel planning, etc. I know I am in charge of a hell of a lot more than my DH. I'm lucky if he remembers how old they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd love to know how many hours women spend while at their job arranging doctors appointments, filling out school paperwork, ordering groceries, online shopping for birthday presents, family travel planning, etc. I know I am in charge of a hell of a lot more than my DH. I'm lucky if he remembers how old they are.

Probably 3-4x longer than if they could do these things efficiently. Oh by the way you're not supposed to be doing this kind of thing at work anyway. Not beyond a minimal amount. It really shows an inability to prioritize. Birthday presents are not important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really hate how the New York Times is at the moment one of the strongest (and few) voices able to reliably report on the trump administration at a high standard, yet they undermine their credibility by posting far-left man hating crap like this.

It's articles like this that got Trump elected. What are they doing? This stuff alienates the vast majority of men and women. It's so embarrassing.

+1

[Anonymous]

It's not just the articles. It's that the articles reflect the mindset of the urban white.progressibe elite, particulaly women--the childless cat.ladys per Vance--and people outside of that bubble believe it's indicative of being abnormal or.emotjonalky disturbed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The basic problem is that a lot of women maybe most nowadays seem to think they should magically have access to their choice of what they feel is a desirable man. But there aren't enough to go around. It's supply and demand. If you're not getting the kind of man you want, maybe you yourself don't bring enough to the relationship table. After all, everyone complaining here CANT be all that. It's just statistics.

The thing is a lot of women are perfectly fine with the idea that they either get the type of man that they want or none at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic problem is that a lot of women maybe most nowadays seem to think they should magically have access to their choice of what they feel is a desirable man. But there aren't enough to go around. It's supply and demand. If you're not getting the kind of man you want, maybe you yourself don't bring enough to the relationship table. After all, everyone complaining here CANT be all that. It's just statistics.

The thing is a lot of women are perfectly fine with the idea that they either get the type of man that they want or none at all.

+1 and it seems a lot of men would like to return to a time when “none at all” wasn’t (economically) an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic problem is that a lot of women maybe most nowadays seem to think they should magically have access to their choice of what they feel is a desirable man. But there aren't enough to go around. It's supply and demand. If you're not getting the kind of man you want, maybe you yourself don't bring enough to the relationship table. After all, everyone complaining here CANT be all that. It's just statistics.

The thing is a lot of women are perfectly fine with the idea that they either get the type of man that they want or none at all.

They don't sound fine with it. In fact they seem angry and frustrated about. Who do you think those articles are for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic problem is that a lot of women maybe most nowadays seem to think they should magically have access to their choice of what they feel is a desirable man. But there aren't enough to go around. It's supply and demand. If you're not getting the kind of man you want, maybe you yourself don't bring enough to the relationship table. After all, everyone complaining here CANT be all that. It's just statistics.

The thing is a lot of women are perfectly fine with the idea that they either get the type of man that they want or none at all.

They don't sound fine with it. In fact they seem angry and frustrated about. Who do you think those articles are for?

By that logic all the reporting on incel murderers is for…frustrated men?

I think most (not all) women who want kids would ideally have a partner. But not meeting the goal of a partner isn’t something many need to sacrifice the goal of having a family and kids for. And because it’s 2025 the choices aren’t accept any man or never achieve other goals.

And honestly no one on this thread has given a reason it makes sense to choose mediocre men over SMBC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Whoever said "They need to hold the mental load" said that it was hard. If a "mental load" is not a hard thing to bear then why do we hear so many complaints about it in this forum? Why are you all so mad at your DHs if increasing the mental load does not make life harder for you?

DNGAF what your (probably imaginary) "studies" have shown. I work FT and still did (and do) the bulk of the kid stuff. And yes I initiate it because if I left it up to DW then it would never get done or she'd half-ass it. I don't find it "time consuming" enough that it bothers me. Sounds like you're just bad at it.

The way you simultaneously put yourself on a pedestal for doing all these things that almost no husbands do, and disparage the women that do the exact same things is a crazy disconnect. Does it only count because you have a penis or is it the same responsibilities that almost every other mother in the us handles?

He didn’t put himself on any pedestal and you should be shamed for your misandrist trope. Literally, how dare you?

See you next Tuesday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Whoever said "They need to hold the mental load" said that it was hard. If a "mental load" is not a hard thing to bear then why do we hear so many complaints about it in this forum? Why are you all so mad at your DHs if increasing the mental load does not make life harder for you?

DNGAF what your (probably imaginary) "studies" have shown. I work FT and still did (and do) the bulk of the kid stuff. And yes I initiate it because if I left it up to DW then it would never get done or she'd half-ass it. I don't find it "time consuming" enough that it bothers me. Sounds like you're just bad at it.

The way you simultaneously put yourself on a pedestal for doing all these things that almost no husbands do, and disparage the women that do the exact same things is a crazy disconnect. Does it only count because you have a penis or is it the same responsibilities that almost every other mother in the us handles?

He didn’t put himself on any pedestal and you should be shamed for your misandrist trope. Literally, how dare you?

See you next Tuesday.

Yeah men today are absolutely great partners, women are really missing out on some great guys….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic problem is that a lot of women maybe most nowadays seem to think they should magically have access to their choice of what they feel is a desirable man. But there aren't enough to go around. It's supply and demand. If you're not getting the kind of man you want, maybe you yourself don't bring enough to the relationship table. After all, everyone complaining here CANT be all that. It's just statistics.

The thing is a lot of women are perfectly fine with the idea that they either get the type of man that they want or none at all.

They don't sound fine with it. In fact they seem angry and frustrated about. Who do you think those articles are for?

By that logic all the reporting on incel murderers is for…frustrated men?

I think most (not all) women who want kids would ideally have a partner. But not meeting the goal of a partner isn’t something many need to sacrifice the goal of having a family and kids for. And because it’s 2025 the choices aren’t accept any man or never achieve other goals.

And honestly no one on this thread has given a reason it makes sense to choose mediocre men over SMBC.

Um, you're not a single mother by choiice if you could never find a suitable man to have a kid with. Contradiction in terms. Should be single mom that didn't have a.choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not just the articles. It's that the articles reflect the mindset of the urban white.progressibe elite, particulaly women--the childless cat.ladys per Vance--and people outside of that bubble believe it's indicative of being abnormal or.emotjonalky disturbed

Yes, the mindset of the urban white progressive elite, especially the gender war stuff, comes across really poorly outside of that particular bubble because it is so out of touch with how most people (across the political spectrum) view the world and this mindset is fully on display in this thread.

Even though the article in the OP was about middle aged dating after divorce with one mention of the author's kid, this thread has devolved into complaining about the "mental load," which as far as I can tell is just a way for privileged women to cosplay oppression by complaining about life admin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The basic problem is that a lot of women maybe most nowadays seem to think they should magically have access to their choice of what they feel is a desirable man. But there aren't enough to go around. It's supply and demand. If you're not getting the kind of man you want, maybe you yourself don't bring enough to the relationship table. After all, everyone complaining here CANT be all that. It's just statistics.

The thing is a lot of women are perfectly fine with the idea that they either get the type of man that they want or none at all.

And men who can’t get the type of American woman they want will become a passport bro and find a wife from another country.