NYT: "The Trouble with Men"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

False.

https://thegepi.org/the-free-time-gender-gap/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-extra-unpaid-hours-full-time-jobs/

No it's true: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/10/27/working-husbands-in-the-us-have-more-leisure-time-than-working-wives-do-especially-among-those-with-children/

The title focuses on men having more leisure time but look at the numbers for married men:

Men
Paid work: 44 hours per week
Unpaid (homework and childcare) 7 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

Women
Paid work: 39 hours per week
Unpaid: 12 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

Your wife sounds like almost every father.

She does less than any father I know, which I'm fine with, my job has enough flexibility and she's got executive functioning issues that make expecting her to pickup the kids a nightmare. But I don't know a single dad who doesn't cook or do pickup or drop off regularly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Woe is you.

Whoop there it is. And that attitude is why there is a male loneliness epidemic. You can't even spare a drop of empathy in hearing about womens' struggles.

So, again, tell me why women would bother to sign up for a life with some schmuck who doesn't care about her, her struggles or her life when it's actually just 1 less (man) child to take care of in her life? Why would anyone want to tie themselves to someone who shrugs and says "woe is you"?

Because I don’t constantly whine about my situation.

You’re a fantastic argument for choosing SMBC rather than settling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Woe is you.

Whoop there it is. And that attitude is why there is a male loneliness epidemic. You can't even spare a drop of empathy in hearing about womens' struggles.

So, again, tell me why women would bother to sign up for a life with some schmuck who doesn't care about her, her struggles or her life when it's actually just 1 less (man) child to take care of in her life? Why would anyone want to tie themselves to someone who shrugs and says "woe is you"?

Because I don’t constantly whine about my situation.

Welp I hope you stay alone, because that kind of attitude is not going to get you far with real women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

False.

https://thegepi.org/the-free-time-gender-gap/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-extra-unpaid-hours-full-time-jobs/

No it's true: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/10/27/working-husbands-in-the-us-have-more-leisure-time-than-working-wives-do-especially-among-those-with-children/

The title focuses on men having more leisure time but look at the numbers for married men:

Men
Paid work: 44 hours per week
Unpaid (homework and childcare) 7 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

Women
Paid work: 39 hours per week
Unpaid: 12 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

And where does the free time come in? You specifically left it out, even though it's the premise of the article. I wonder why so many men are out gallivanting around town when they have young children?

"Employed husbands who have children under the age of 5 at home spend 24.6 hours on leisure per week, compared with 20.1 hours among employed wives with children in that age range"

That's an extra 10 days a year dads with young children are spending "leisure time" vs moms. I don't think you can say dads are doing "equal" work when the free time is so unequal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's NYT's agenda?

NP. Solidifying the lockhold that Republicans have on Gen Z men?

The birth and marriage rate for gen z is going to be abysmal

Maybe that’s the end game for the NYT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

Your wife sounds like almost every father.

She does less than any father I know, which I'm fine with, my job has enough flexibility and she's got executive functioning issues that make expecting her to pickup the kids a nightmare. But I don't know a single dad who doesn't cook or do pickup or drop off regularly.

Pick up and drop off and cooking occasionally are drops in the bucket to everything you listed. I'm glad your family has you, but you need to recognize the reality of many women in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Woe is you.

Whoop there it is. And that attitude is why there is a male loneliness epidemic. You can't even spare a drop of empathy in hearing about womens' struggles.

So, again, tell me why women would bother to sign up for a life with some schmuck who doesn't care about her, her struggles or her life when it's actually just 1 less (man) child to take care of in her life? Why would anyone want to tie themselves to someone who shrugs and says "woe is you"?

Because I don’t constantly whine about my situation.

You’re a fantastic argument for choosing SMBC rather than settling.

LOL - pp is the exact type of man telling women they should settle. For someone like him. All I can think of is:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

False.

https://thegepi.org/the-free-time-gender-gap/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-extra-unpaid-hours-full-time-jobs/

No it's true: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/10/27/working-husbands-in-the-us-have-more-leisure-time-than-working-wives-do-especially-among-those-with-children/

The title focuses on men having more leisure time but look at the numbers for married men:

Men
Paid work: 44 hours per week
Unpaid (homework and childcare) 7 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

Women
Paid work: 39 hours per week
Unpaid: 12 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

And where does the free time come in? You specifically left it out, even though it's the premise of the article. I wonder why so many men are out gallivanting around town when they have young children?

"Employed husbands who have children under the age of 5 at home spend 24.6 hours on leisure per week, compared with 20.1 hours among employed wives with children in that age range"

That's an extra 10 days a year dads with young children are spending "leisure time" vs moms. I don't think you can say dads are doing "equal" work when the free time is so unequal.

If you dig into the ATUS data, it's because women spend more time on what the study codes as "personal care." Mostly that comes from grooming and sleep, which women do more than men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

False.

https://thegepi.org/the-free-time-gender-gap/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-extra-unpaid-hours-full-time-jobs/

No it's true: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/10/27/working-husbands-in-the-us-have-more-leisure-time-than-working-wives-do-especially-among-those-with-children/

The title focuses on men having more leisure time but look at the numbers for married men:

Men
Paid work: 44 hours per week
Unpaid (homework and childcare) 7 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

Women
Paid work: 39 hours per week
Unpaid: 12 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

And where does the free time come in? You specifically left it out, even though it's the premise of the article. I wonder why so many men are out gallivanting around town when they have young children?

"Employed husbands who have children under the age of 5 at home spend 24.6 hours on leisure per week, compared with 20.1 hours among employed wives with children in that age range"

That's an extra 10 days a year dads with young children are spending "leisure time" vs moms. I don't think you can say dads are doing "equal" work when the free time is so unequal.

If you dig into the ATUS data, it's because women spend more time on what the study codes as "personal care." Mostly that comes from grooming and sleep, which women do more than men.

You don’t think that has anything to do with societal norms? No? Got it. Everything’s equal and amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Woe is you.

Whoop there it is. And that attitude is why there is a male loneliness epidemic. You can't even spare a drop of empathy in hearing about womens' struggles.

So, again, tell me why women would bother to sign up for a life with some schmuck who doesn't care about her, her struggles or her life when it's actually just 1 less (man) child to take care of in her life? Why would anyone want to tie themselves to someone who shrugs and says "woe is you"?

Because I don’t constantly whine about my situation.

Do you also call men who do housework and care about their wives "simps"? Sounds like you're right out of the red pill incel handbook.

Single women of DCUM - please note, this is who you're "settling" for. A loser who doesn't care about you and calls your inequality issues "whining".

Ugh I feel so bad for women these days. You do not have to settle for a life like this. You do not have to settle for a gross man child that adds labor and stress to your life. Don't even give them the time of day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Men don't do more because they work more hours than women, even when both are employed full time. When you add up paid and unpaid work, it evens out. Everybody is working about equally, on average.

Also, it's ludicrous to suggest that no one on this site says it's hard. It's a constant theme to complain about the "mental load" of making camp arrangements and doctor's appointments. If it's not hard why would you complain? I can't imagine a person who has ever worked hard in their life complaining about making a doctor's appointment. And yes whatever list of tasks you're about to turn out, I've done it all without any help. My wife works and plays board games with the kids and that's it.

False.

https://thegepi.org/the-free-time-gender-gap/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-extra-unpaid-hours-full-time-jobs/

No it's true: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/10/27/working-husbands-in-the-us-have-more-leisure-time-than-working-wives-do-especially-among-those-with-children/

The title focuses on men having more leisure time but look at the numbers for married men:

Men
Paid work: 44 hours per week
Unpaid (homework and childcare) 7 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

Women
Paid work: 39 hours per week
Unpaid: 12 hours per week
Total: 51 hours per week

And where does the free time come in? You specifically left it out, even though it's the premise of the article. I wonder why so many men are out gallivanting around town when they have young children?

"Employed husbands who have children under the age of 5 at home spend 24.6 hours on leisure per week, compared with 20.1 hours among employed wives with children in that age range"

That's an extra 10 days a year dads with young children are spending "leisure time" vs moms. I don't think you can say dads are doing "equal" work when the free time is so unequal.

If you dig into the ATUS data, it's because women spend more time on what the study codes as "personal care." Mostly that comes from grooming and sleep, which women do more than men.

So showering and sleep counts as leisure time for women, but it's golf and strippers for men? I don't think that is coming off how you wanted it to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Whoever said "They need to hold the mental load" said that it was hard. If a "mental load" is not a hard thing to bear then why do we hear so many complaints about it in this forum? Why are you all so mad at your DHs if increasing the mental load does not make life harder for you?

DNGAF what your (probably imaginary) "studies" have shown. I work FT and still did (and do) the bulk of the kid stuff. And yes I initiate it because if I left it up to DW then it would never get done or she'd half-ass it. I don't find it "time consuming" enough that it bothers me. Sounds like you're just bad at it.

[Anonymous]

Lol. So any studies you don't agree with are just imaginary. Bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This seems to be a thematic series at the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/21/magazine/men-heterofatalism-dating-relationships.html?unlocked_article_code=1.YU8.43pQ.EZ4bi1dHDtR_&smid=url-share

Men are just unable to operate in normal, grown up relationships - or at least that's what the these articles would have us believe.

Honestly, I think this is turning into a pretty tired trope. (guy here)

A lot of woman can't take the weaponized incompetence. "You told me to take down the xmas lights, but you did not tell me to put them away anywhere. How am I supposed to know??"

Men need to wash their own shiz and clean the house, too. They need to not say they are "babysitting" their own kids. They need to cook 50% of the time or more.

They need to hold the mental load of children's medical appts, dental appointments, school forms, field trip forms and dates, school volunteering possibilities, and carpooling if needed. They need to track the TeamSnap for the children's sports teams, bring the lasagna to the swim team potluck, and drive the kids back and forth to these events.

That's just a drop of what men need to start doing.

I researched ALL of the kid's summer camps, and it was very time consuming because I had to consider date, time, interests and distance for two kids with varying interests. Some of the camps were so popular that they'd fill up by January.

That was super time consuming, and then yea, the camp forms. I did this for 10+ years all while working FT.

Oh, and the birthday parties. I am not a good party planner; I don't like doing it, but I did it all. I start the discussions with my kids about what they want to do. I'd be happy with DH doing it but he doesn't think about these things until late.

I juggled kids' and my appointments, activities, etc.. DH just had to deal with himself.

I'm sure if I asked DH to do it, he would've, but the thing that bothers me is that I always had to ask. Doesn't appear to me that most dads think about kids stuff as much as moms do, or at least they only pickup things that interest them (which is like 5% of stuff that needs doing), like drivers' ed. DH did initiate that one because he likes cars.

I agree that moms take on more of the mental load than dads even if the dads do the cooking and other housechores. It's like they can just manage their own mental load, and that's about it. They certainly don't want to do the mundane things that are required. I don't even think a lot of dads even think about those mundane tasks.

Oh, and the college talk. More moms talk to their kids about the future and college than dads. That was also true in my case.

I am a man and I have always done everything you list here: summer activities, birthdays, appointments, extracurriculars, sports, schools, college, vacations, and more. Organized, planned, paid for.

It wasn't that hard. It wasn't exhausting. I didn't mind it at all.

This "mental load" stuff is just you deciding to be mad at your DH. If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

Who said it was hard? I said it's time consuming, but I never stated it was hard. You're making stuff up in your own head to excuse men.

And if it's not that hard, why don't more dads do it? They don't because, like I said, they don't want to do the mundane stuff.

Studies have shown that women, even those who work FT, still do the bulk of all that because men don't initiate. I think the only thing they want to initiate is sex. Everything else about life is left up to the wife to initiate.

Whoever said "They need to hold the mental load" said that it was hard. If a "mental load" is not a hard thing to bear then why do we hear so many complaints about it in this forum? Why are you all so mad at your DHs if increasing the mental load does not make life harder for you?

DNGAF what your (probably imaginary) "studies" have shown. I work FT and still did (and do) the bulk of the kid stuff. And yes I initiate it because if I left it up to DW then it would never get done or she'd half-ass it. I don't find it "time consuming" enough that it bothers me. Sounds like you're just bad at it.

Clearly you don't have the mental load and probably do things half a$$. No one said it was hard. It's just time consuming.

They aren't imaginary studies. You just don't know how to read, clearly. You're an idiot to not understand you're not the norm.