Can a normal smart kid get into an ivy these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: if unis admitted just on merit, the top schools would be almost all Asian

Using only your myopically narrow definition of "merit," I suppose.

Yes, I use the same "myopic" definition that the entire rest of the world outside the USA uses. Sorry your kid wouldn't hack it, though.

You're welcome to send your kid to those schools. Why didn't you apply to universities abroad since they are so superior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to care because the SC just ruled race-based admissions unconstitutional. You will be judged on stats and accomplishments, metrics at which the Asians excel.

Yet another DCUMer who failed miserably at understanding the Supreme Court's ruling. The first sentence was more or less accurate. The second sentence is hopelessly naive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, aid tends to be close to a full ride. They do, however, have a few hours a day built into their schedules to hone extracurricular skills.

You could easily prove that poster wrong by providing a link to the financial aid offices at the top boarding schools. But you’re not going to do that, because it’s not true. It’s absolutely not true that half of the students in the top boarding schools in this country are attending for virtually nothing. Absolute bullshit.

In fact, it just took me five seconds to prove myself right. Here is a link to Andover financial aid page. It says that 45% of returning students receive financial aid averaging $43,000 a year. Full cost is just under $70,000 a year. So that means 55% of the class is paying $70,000 a year for school, and 45% are paying on average $27,000 a year. That’s not “close to a full ride” by a long shot. And Andover is among the most generous of boarding schools when it comes to aid.

https://www.andover.edu/admission/tuition-and-financial-aid

Andover is a bad example because they have a large percentage of students who are day (non-boarding ) and who do not pay the full amount but only pay $54.000.

Here is another example: "Thirty-nine percent of Deerfield’s current students receive financial aid. The average boarding grant size is $58,345 and constitutes 82% of the total cost of tuition and fees."

Ok, so 61 percent are full freight and the other 39 percent pay tens of thousands a year. Got it.

That’s not close to half getting a full ride either.

The vast majority of free tuition kids at fancy private high schools are faculty offspring. They'll sprinkle it with a few URMs or local rural types to make it all seem wonderful. Buts it's basically a perk.

There aren't that many faculty with currently high school aged kids. A number of the URMS do get aid, as do many prize athletes and kids from the local area. One thing you got right, though, is that if you think your white MC kid who brings none of those things to the table is getting aid, you are sniffing glue.

PP here - I was taking about high school and responding to the comment that 40% of e.g., Philips Andover students are on full financial aid. There are many faculty and staff with high school aged kids at private schools for this very reason. I could tell stories. but I don
t want to out/ID the families of DDs high school friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to care because the SC just ruled race-based admissions unconstitutional. You will be judged on stats and accomplishments, metrics at which the Asians excel.

Yet another DCUMer who failed miserably at understanding the Supreme Court's ruling. The first sentence was more or less accurate. The second sentence is hopelessly naive.

I guess we'll have to wait to see how many more Asians there are at the top universities next year to find out just who is hopelessly naive and failing miserably. Best of luck to you and your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to care because the SC just ruled race-based admissions unconstitutional. You will be judged on stats and accomplishments, metrics at which the Asians excel.

Yet another DCUMer who failed miserably at understanding the Supreme Court's ruling. The first sentence was more or less accurate. The second sentence is hopelessly naive.

I guess we'll have to wait to see how many more Asians there are at the top universities next year to find out just who is hopelessly naive and failing miserably. Best of luck to you and your kids.

Your incorrect assumption is test scores and grades will become more important criteria. In fact it will be the essay. Schools still want a diverse cohort and don’t want (even more than now) disproportionate cohorts of Asian kids and will take steps to ensure they reach their goals. And that is allowed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, aid tends to be close to a full ride. They do, however, have a few hours a day built into their schedules to hone extracurricular skills.

You could easily prove that poster wrong by providing a link to the financial aid offices at the top boarding schools. But you’re not going to do that, because it’s not true. It’s absolutely not true that half of the students in the top boarding schools in this country are attending for virtually nothing. Absolute bullshit.

In fact, it just took me five seconds to prove myself right. Here is a link to Andover financial aid page. It says that 45% of returning students receive financial aid averaging $43,000 a year. Full cost is just under $70,000 a year. So that means 55% of the class is paying $70,000 a year for school, and 45% are paying on average $27,000 a year. That’s not “close to a full ride” by a long shot. And Andover is among the most generous of boarding schools when it comes to aid.

https://www.andover.edu/admission/tuition-and-financial-aid

Andover is a bad example because they have a large percentage of students who are day (non-boarding ) and who do not pay the full amount but only pay $54.000.

Here is another example: "Thirty-nine percent of Deerfield’s current students receive financial aid. The average boarding grant size is $58,345 and constitutes 82% of the total cost of tuition and fees."

Ok, so 61 percent are full freight and the other 39 percent pay tens of thousands a year. Got it.

That’s not close to half getting a full ride either.

The vast majority of free tuition kids at fancy private high schools are faculty offspring. They'll sprinkle it with a few URMs or local rural types to make it all seem wonderful. Buts it's basically a perk.

There aren't that many faculty with currently high school aged kids. A number of the URMS do get aid, as do many prize athletes and kids from the local area. One thing you got right, though, is that if you think your white MC kid who brings none of those things to the table is getting aid, you are sniffing glue.

PP here - I was taking about high school and responding to the comment that 40% of e.g., Philips Andover students are on full financial aid. There are many faculty and staff with high school aged kids at private schools for this very reason. I could tell stories. but I don
t want to out/ID the families of DDs high school friends.

Are you talking about a private day school? I kind of doubt your kid is at a boarding school because this is not just true at ours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to care because the SC just ruled race-based admissions unconstitutional. You will be judged on stats and accomplishments, metrics at which the Asians excel.

Yet another DCUMer who failed miserably at understanding the Supreme Court's ruling. The first sentence was more or less accurate. The second sentence is hopelessly naive.

I guess we'll have to wait to see how many more Asians there are at the top universities next year to find out just who is hopelessly naive and failing miserably. Best of luck to you and your kids.

Your incorrect assumption is test scores and grades will become more important criteria. In fact it will be the essay. Schools still want a diverse cohort and don’t want (even more than now) disproportionate cohorts of Asian kids and will take steps to ensure they reach their goals. And that is allowed.

Wrong. If they discriminate to keep Asians out, it is clearly illegal.

[Anonymous]

We won't have to wait. Unlike you, many of us have years of experience litigating before appellate courts and actually know what the majority holding stated:

"Nothing in this opinion should be construed as prohibiting universities from considering an applicant’s discussion of how race affected his or her life, be it through discrimination, inspiration, or otherwise. ... A benefit to a student who overcame racial discrimination, for example, must be tied to that student’s courage and determination. Or a benefit to a student whose heritage or culture motivated him or her to assume a leadership role or attain a particular goal must be tied to that student’s unique ability to contribute to the university."

[Anonymous]

Oh FFS- Asian racists. I’ll put my white athlete son up against any one of your kids. Not only is he good on the field, but has won national academic awards.

And he’s just as good in English/Writing/History/Languages as he is in hardcore math and science.

Let’s go!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh FFS- Asian racists. I’ll put my white athlete son up against any one of your kids. Not only is he good on the field, but has won national academic awards.

And he’s just as good in English/Writing/History/Languages as he is in hardcore math and science.

Let’s go!

+1 My kid’s friend’s Asian mother has been on his friend’s case about why can’t he be more like my kid since they were in kindergarten.

He’s currently top in his class right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not if he’s white or Asian.

Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, aid tends to be close to a full ride. They do, however, have a few hours a day built into their schedules to hone extracurricular skills.

You could easily prove that poster wrong by providing a link to the financial aid offices at the top boarding schools. But you’re not going to do that, because it’s not true. It’s absolutely not true that half of the students in the top boarding schools in this country are attending for virtually nothing. Absolute bullshit.

In fact, it just took me five seconds to prove myself right. Here is a link to Andover financial aid page. It says that 45% of returning students receive financial aid averaging $43,000 a year. Full cost is just under $70,000 a year. So that means 55% of the class is paying $70,000 a year for school, and 45% are paying on average $27,000 a year. That’s not “close to a full ride” by a long shot. And Andover is among the most generous of boarding schools when it comes to aid.

https://www.andover.edu/admission/tuition-and-financial-aid

Andover is a bad example because they have a large percentage of students who are day (non-boarding ) and who do not pay the full amount but only pay $54.000.

Here is another example: "Thirty-nine percent of Deerfield’s current students receive financial aid. The average boarding grant size is $58,345 and constitutes 82% of the total cost of tuition and fees."

Ok, so 61 percent are full freight and the other 39 percent pay tens of thousands a year. Got it.

That’s not close to half getting a full ride either.

The vast majority of free tuition kids at fancy private high schools are faculty offspring. They'll sprinkle it with a few URMs or local rural types to make it all seem wonderful. Buts it's basically a perk.

There aren't that many faculty with currently high school aged kids. A number of the URMS do get aid, as do many prize athletes and kids from the local area. One thing you got right, though, is that if you think your white MC kid who brings none of those things to the table is getting aid, you are sniffing glue.

PP here - I was taking about high school and responding to the comment that 40% of e.g., Philips Andover students are on full financial aid. There are many faculty and staff with high school aged kids at private schools for this very reason. I could tell stories. but I don
t want to out/ID the families of DDs high school friends.

Are you talking about a private day school? I kind of doubt your kid is at a boarding school because this is not just true at ours.

Good point, mine was at a country day school, and others we know were at schools w boarding and day students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This board is so weird. Yes, of course it's possible. I know of a brown, two Yale, one Columbia just off the top of my head from this year. All normal smart. Public schools. Great kids, great grades, scores, activities. But normal smart.

I know four normal smart kids from public schools at ivies too. But they are also URM and ROTC. Double hooked. Not everyone who knows them knows their ethnicity or that they are ROTC (or understands that ROTC is a huge hook) It’s possible you don’t have all the information about them that’s relevant.

Sounds more like it / I literally do not know a single smart h hooked kid at ivys after 12 years and 3 kids at a top public school. Hint/ this is not something to aspire to at this point - there is something wrong with you if you are accepted. Your privilege paid or you are urm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is a frosh at an Ivy. His suitemates are nerdy, white and Asian MC kids from all over the country. Mostly pursuing STEM. He calls them "cracked," as in some took several years of post calc-math in HS, are competing in national university math contests, have won national writing awards, speak multiple languages, are skilled musicians, or have published something. These are not regular kids, though they are not the types whose parents started non-profits for them.

The Asian parents may have not started non profits for their kids but they started all the academic competitions in middle school. Go to any mathcounts contests or science fairs and you will see a lot of kids who have been doing these for years. Just like whites focus on sports, many Asians focus on academic competions. My daughter loves science and I was looking into science fairs and was surprised to learn there are so many consultants who charge top dollars to guide you through the process. There are several paid research programs. I don't have the time or resources to help her through the process so she is cold calling and reaching out to people and labs herself. I am sure she will land something but she has to compete with kids whose parents are knowledgeable and have resources to help them.

My kid was into chess for a few years in elem-middle, and he was in the minority as a white kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to care because the SC just ruled race-based admissions unconstitutional. You will be judged on stats and accomplishments, metrics at which the Asians excel.

Yet another DCUMer who failed miserably at understanding the Supreme Court's ruling. The first sentence was more or less accurate. The second sentence is hopelessly naive.

I guess we'll have to wait to see how many more Asians there are at the top universities next year to find out just who is hopelessly naive and failing miserably. Best of luck to you and your kids.

Your incorrect assumption is test scores and grades will become more important criteria. In fact it will be the essay. Schools still want a diverse cohort and don’t want (even more than now) disproportionate cohorts of Asian kids and will take steps to ensure they reach their goals. And that is allowed.

Wrong. If they discriminate to keep Asians out, it is clearly illegal.

You are mistaken if you think test scores and weighted GPAs are going to be the only thing that matters henceforth.

Essays, ECs, leadership, and teacher recs are going to matter much, much more in the years ahead.