APS DHMS walk zone nuclear option

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without option programs APS would be an unimpressive school system. Maybe this is your goal.

No- people would go back to their neighborhood schools and APS would
have more money to invest in the neighborhood schools verses a private school experience on the public’s dime for the chosen few. The very fact that you are stating the option schools are the only good schools means you should understand the issue.

That's a pretty naive viewpoint. If you close options you will overnight flood several neighborhood schools. Unless you build enormously, and I mean lots of money. And disrupting those schools. Oh, and options are well-established in APS for probably longer than you've been alive. Longer than some neighborhood schools. Most programs have annual waitlists. Some win awards and outside recognition. They are not second class schools. We will never agree on options - they absolutely belong in APS and literally are why my family chose Arlington 20 years ago. But I'm also flabbergasted how you deluded you are that somehow eliminating options is the solution. Don't you see that alone will spur the biggest boundary shift ever?

Options only came about when APS found itself with excess capacity in the 70s and rather than close the schools turned them into options.

We no longer have excess capacity so maybe their time has passed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without option programs APS would be an unimpressive school system. Maybe this is your goal.

No- people would go back to their neighborhood schools and APS would
have more money to invest in the neighborhood schools verses a private school experience on the public’s dime for the chosen few. The very fact that you are stating the option schools are the only good schools means you should understand the issue.

That's a pretty naive viewpoint. If you close options you will overnight flood several neighborhood schools. Unless you build enormously, and I mean lots of money. And disrupting those schools. Oh, and options are well-established in APS for probably longer than you've been alive. Longer than some neighborhood schools. Most programs have annual waitlists. Some win awards and outside recognition. They are not second class schools. We will never agree on options - they absolutely belong in APS and literally are why my family chose Arlington 20 years ago. But I'm also flabbergasted how you deluded you are that somehow eliminating options is the solution. Don't you see that alone will spur the biggest boundary shift ever?

Options only came about when APS found itself with excess capacity in the 70s and rather than close the schools turned them into options.

We no longer have excess capacity so maybe their time has passed.

A lot has changed since the 70s, including what the option programs offer and why they are valuable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

[Anonymous]

Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

Could you say a little bit more about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Haha, no they do not care about test scores, in fact it will probably help equity measure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t they just let the Hamm walk zone stay at Hamm and bus everyone else to Williamsburg? Wouldn’t this keep everyone happy?

Yes. And it's consistent with APS diversity goals.

I don’t see how recreating the Rosslyn Island to Williamsburg is fine but moving immersion to Williamsburg is a nonstarter. It’s the exact same issues.

No, it's not. Immersion is a countywide program and you need to get students to Williamsburg from all over the County. Rosslyn island to Williamsburg is just a few buses of kids from the NE quadrant to the NW quadrant. Also, those Rosslyn students would be assigned to WMS; whereas immersion students have to choose to continue in the program and many have a far more convenient default and therefore more likely to opt-out....defeating the purpose (alleviating crowding in south Arlington) of moving the program.

Immersion runs busses all over the county no matter where it’s located. Also, why should we care that immersion students have to choose between an inconvenient special program and a more convenient neighborhood option? It’s optional! We should be prioritizing the default. It’s not like Gunston is convenient for people who live near Rosslyn and Courthouse but according to the map they still attend. Williamsburg is projected to be at 65% in a few years. We could just move immersion there and be done without adding bus runs for walk zone kids or creating islands.

OK. Go ahead with that plan and see how it works. I'll put my money down on "it isn't going to play out the way you think it will."

Yes, we already heard this. “Moving Key will kill the school. Families won’t be willing to travel to a new location.”

And yet. 92% of the students moved to the new location. Of the 49 that didn’t, 20 moved out of the county entirely. If the program is truly strong and valuable, people will follow it.

It’s not just about current families moving to a new location. It’s about needing native Spanish speakers for the model to work moving forward. Been to Williamsburg lately? How do you think that will work out?

For those of you rabid to put a stop to any change, this idea isn’t it.

If Spanish speakers don’t want to enroll their children in Immersion, moving to closer won’t work either. I have heard exactly 0 parents IRL say the reason they don’t want Immersion is location. And even telling them that their children’s outcomes will be better isn’t doing the trick. Maybe they don’t want the program? And it’s a bit patronizing to try to make them want it because it’s for their own good.

Option programs need to go where there is space and that’s that. The rest of the county shouldn’t be shuffled around and disrupted for an OPTIONAL program.

Hard disagree. What works best for any school also should be a top consideration. Options are just as real schools as neighborhood, no less.

They moved around the ES to make space for neighborhood students, and it didn’t destroy any programs. Maybe made them less convenient, but I don’t think the convenience for kids in optional programs should be prioritized over, for instance, furthering the demographic disparity at Kenmore, and I say this as an option parent.

DP. I don't think the convenience of any kids should be prioritized over demographic diversity in all of our schools.

+1000. And at a minimum those option schools should have spots allowed for a more representative portion of students receiving Free and Reduced Lunch. The HB Woodlawn stats are pitiful. If they supposedly can’t work it out for the neighborhood schools, they must do it for the lottery schools. Their diversity priority is a joke.

I don't think you have a very good grasp of the legalities involved here.

APS’s own policy requires them to consider demographics when creating school boundaries. This isn’t illegal.

[Anonymous]

^ if they use free and reduces lunch as the demographic category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Make HB high school only to alleviate crowding at other high schools. Move immersion to WMS. If haven’t seen a legitimate reason not to move it to WMS but if one exists, open up WMS for kids outside the boundary to opt-in. Lots of families looking to leave Gunston and Kenmore. Not a convenient location but opt-ins would need to figure out their own transit.

You're not very informed.

APS already has a plan to have enough seats at the high school level.

Also WMS is already open to neighborhood transfers.

Haha, their “plan” is the expectation that population will decline, and if not they will keep cramming kids into WL, and have already documented night shift and remote learning plans

At some point they will probably try this and then be SHOCKED at the abysmally low test scores and high truancy levels of those who opt in.

Honestly I used to hate the idea of night school and virtual school, but I kind of think of it like work from home. Some kids might do really well in that environment, and some are going to choose it to disengage. And these are the kids who would be disengaged anywhere. So maybe getting them out of the overcrowded classrooms and letting them do whatever at home or in night school wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. My 2 cents.

Hard disagree. If m sure there are kids for whim virtual in some classes would be nice. Kids on the margin who need extra encouragement to engage absolutely should be in the classroom.