Will Admissions Officers pick up on clues in application regarding URM?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students are allowed to say whatever they want to say in an essay. As far as I know, schools are fully entitled to ask applicants to voluntarily identify their race. Schools will easily—and appropriately—be able to give URMs a boost, if necessary. The decision provides a road map for colleges to follow. As a practical matter, little will change.

You have not been following what has transpired in states that implemented this policy. Bottom line is Black admits will sharply decline and Asian admits will increase.

I know people like to point to California here, but there are some key differences. The first is that California has many many more Asian American residents than most of the rest of the country, so the numbers will look different for in-state schools no matter what. The second is that the California figures look at the entire state, across all UC and Cal State systems. For a variety of reasons, including systemic racism, there may not be enough "highly qualified" URMs for admissions to match demographics for Black and Latino applicants.

But this conversation is about "elite colleges," which we can assume means T25, and some of which are very small at the undergraduate level. If a college decides racial diversity, and avoiding a substantial drop in Black and Latino candidates, is important to them, there are absolutely enough "highly qualified" URMs to make sure that happens.

+1

Everyone is forgetting that, once admitted, students also need to pay for college. The reason so many qualified affluent students are accepted is because they can PAY tuition.
Colleges need revenue.
URM students, even if brilliant and plentiful, need to be full pay. Top colleges are generous but that’s only bc they admit students who can offset the loss.

Even now, the affluent African and Caribbean students fill the URM slots at top schools. The news of full-ride inner city kids are news cuz there are so few of those tokens. They don't happen that often.

[Anonymous]

Agree that the essay is really terrible. Laughably bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree that the essay is really terrible. Laughably bad.

+1 it is repetitive, generic, and lacks voice. OP thinks it’s good 😳

[Anonymous]

Note that when people resort to name calling (eg, Sowell is a goober), it’s because they are unable to find actual fault with that person’s position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Note that when people resort to name calling (eg, Sowell is a goober), it’s because they are unable to find actual fault with that person’s position.

DP - Black students at elite colleges graduate at a higher rate than the general population. How does that happen if according to Sowell, they are struggling and don't belong there?

According to data from the Department of Education six-year graduation rates (a commonly-used metric in higher education) for Black students are higher at Harvard and Princeton than they are for the overall student body. At Harvard, it’s 98% for undergraduates overall and 99% for Black collegians. It’s also 99% for Black students at Princeton, compared to 97% of bachelor’s degree seekers there overall. Additionally, 98% of Yale students graduate within six years – the percentage is the exact same for Black Yalies.

At Cal Tech, 100% of Black students graduated in the most recent cohort for which data are available, compared to 94% of students overall. The University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins University, Case Western Reserve University, and Wake Forest University are other highly-selective privates from which Black students have graduated at higher rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Note that when people resort to name calling (eg, Sowell is a goober), it’s because they are unable to find actual fault with that person’s position.

DP - Black students at elite colleges graduate at a higher rate than the general population. How does that happen if according to Sowell, they are struggling and don't belong there?

According to data from the Department of Education six-year graduation rates (a commonly-used metric in higher education) for Black students are higher at Harvard and Princeton than they are for the overall student body. At Harvard, it’s 98% for undergraduates overall and 99% for Black collegians. It’s also 99% for Black students at Princeton, compared to 97% of bachelor’s degree seekers there overall. Additionally, 98% of Yale students graduate within six years – the percentage is the exact same for Black Yalies.

At Cal Tech, 100% of Black students graduated in the most recent cohort for which data are available, compared to 94% of students overall. The University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins University, Case Western Reserve University, and Wake Forest University are other highly-selective privates from which Black students have graduated at higher rates.

Don't waste your time.

When cornered with data the bigots' last stand is "Well, they struggle while they are there". And when they graduate it is "Well, their degree is meaningless."

Just try to enjoy your day. It won't be more than a few minutes before someone posts a bar chart of something only tangentially related.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Note that when people resort to name calling (eg, Sowell is a goober), it’s because they are unable to find actual fault with that person’s position.

DP - Black students at elite colleges graduate at a higher rate than the general population. How does that happen if according to Sowell, they are struggling and don't belong there?

According to data from the Department of Education six-year graduation rates (a commonly-used metric in higher education) for Black students are higher at Harvard and Princeton than they are for the overall student body. At Harvard, it’s 98% for undergraduates overall and 99% for Black collegians. It’s also 99% for Black students at Princeton, compared to 97% of bachelor’s degree seekers there overall. Additionally, 98% of Yale students graduate within six years – the percentage is the exact same for Black Yalies.

At Cal Tech, 100% of Black students graduated in the most recent cohort for which data are available, compared to 94% of students overall. The University of Chicago, Johns Hopkins University, Case Western Reserve University, and Wake Forest University are other highly-selective privates from which Black students have graduated at higher rates.

Don't waste your time.

When cornered with data the bigots' last stand is "Well, they struggle while they are there". And when they graduate it is "Well, their degree is meaningless."

Just try to enjoy your day. It won't be more than a few minutes before someone posts a bar chart of something only tangentially related.

Of course. Because we ALL know how they got there to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who think colleges already have a workaround in place, I did not see many URMs at my kid's ivy. Just walk around. This is admittedly a sample size of 1 ivy. However, I've not been able to verify published URM demographics.

Well, you will see significantly fewer URM kids in the future. Free gravy train is over.

What I meant was when colleges claim that nothing will change, my suspicious mind says they will simply exaggerate the percentage of black students on their campus. That's their workaround.

As far as I know no colleges have claimed that. They all say they will continue to work to find a different path. But as AP article (link up-thread) reported, they have not identified a workaround. Many have tried, none found.

The one who claim nothing will change are some DCUM posters here. I think many of them are still in denial and, it appears, many don't read news.

Why would they announce they have a work around? It would just invite more litigation. But if you don’t think they have data analytics sufficient to build a diverse class, you haven’t been paying attention,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who think colleges already have a workaround in place, I did not see many URMs at my kid's ivy. Just walk around. This is admittedly a sample size of 1 ivy. However, I've not been able to verify published URM demographics.

Well, you will see significantly fewer URM kids in the future. Free gravy train is over.

You can feel how you want about AA but this kind of language “free gravy train” is really gross, after everything this nation has done to black people. You are not a good person.

Well, I am sorry if you feel that way but that's exactly how I feel. Asians have done nothing to blacks, owe nothing to blacks and I resent the fact that AA negatively affected Asian kids the most. It's like paying for lunch that you weren't even part of having. And paying it year after year. LOL

And how exactly are Asians paying for lunch?

By their seats taken under AA. Which is exactly what Supreme Court killed it last week.

Someone is going to be very disappointed next spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students are allowed to say whatever they want to say in an essay. As far as I know, schools are fully entitled to ask applicants to voluntarily identify their race. Schools will easily—and appropriately—be able to give URMs a boost, if necessary. The decision provides a road map for colleges to follow. As a practical matter, little will change.

You have not been following what has transpired in states that implemented this policy. Bottom line is Black admits will sharply decline and Asian admits will increase.

It’s not the 1990s anymore. With test optional, holistic andmissions, and data analytics, diversity will be maintained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who think colleges already have a workaround in place, I did not see many URMs at my kid's ivy. Just walk around. This is admittedly a sample size of 1 ivy. However, I've not been able to verify published URM demographics.

Well, you will see significantly fewer URM kids in the future. Free gravy train is over.

You can feel how you want about AA but this kind of language “free gravy train” is really gross, after everything this nation has done to black people. You are not a good person.

Well, I am sorry if you feel that way but that's exactly how I feel. Asians have done nothing to blacks, owe nothing to blacks and I resent the fact that AA negatively affected Asian kids the most. It's like paying for lunch that you weren't even part of having. And paying it year after year. LOL

And how exactly are Asians paying for lunch?

By their seats taken under AA. Which is exactly what Supreme Court killed it last week.

Someone is going to be very disappointed next spring.

LOL. and that will be YOU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who think colleges already have a workaround in place, I did not see many URMs at my kid's ivy. Just walk around. This is admittedly a sample size of 1 ivy. However, I've not been able to verify published URM demographics.

Well, you will see significantly fewer URM kids in the future. Free gravy train is over.

What I meant was when colleges claim that nothing will change, my suspicious mind says they will simply exaggerate the percentage of black students on their campus. That's their workaround.

As far as I know no colleges have claimed that. They all say they will continue to work to find a different path. But as AP article (link up-thread) reported, they have not identified a workaround. Many have tried, none found.

The one who claim nothing will change are some DCUM posters here. I think many of them are still in denial and, it appears, many don't read news.

Why would they announce they have a work around? It would just invite more litigation. But if you don’t think they have data analytics sufficient to build a diverse class, you haven’t been paying attention,

Reports have. It's not hard to google if you know how to search.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students are allowed to say whatever they want to say in an essay. As far as I know, schools are fully entitled to ask applicants to voluntarily identify their race. Schools will easily—and appropriately—be able to give URMs a boost, if necessary. The decision provides a road map for colleges to follow. As a practical matter, little will change.

You have not been following what has transpired in states that implemented this policy. Bottom line is Black admits will sharply decline and Asian admits will increase.

It’s not the 1990s anymore. With test optional, holistic andmissions, and data analytics, diversity will be maintained.

DP. The new system, for lack of a better term, will involve URMs voluntarily disclosing their race somewhere in the app (besides the checkbox). Many will be advised to do this; others may not get the message. Data analytics are not going to be enough, by themselves. Harvard will probably find a way, though other schools will struggle to do this well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students are allowed to say whatever they want to say in an essay. As far as I know, schools are fully entitled to ask applicants to voluntarily identify their race. Schools will easily—and appropriately—be able to give URMs a boost, if necessary. The decision provides a road map for colleges to follow. As a practical matter, little will change.

You have not been following what has transpired in states that implemented this policy. Bottom line is Black admits will sharply decline and Asian admits will increase.

It’s not the 1990s anymore. With test optional, holistic andmissions, and data analytics, diversity will be maintained.

DP. The new system, for lack of a better term, will involve URMs voluntarily disclosing their race somewhere in the app (besides the checkbox). Many will be advised to do this; others may not get the message. Data analytics are not going to be enough, by themselves. Harvard will probably find a way, though other schools will struggle to do this well.

Yeah, white folks will take to you to the promised land where no Asians can fuss. Oh come on PP...

[Anonymous]

On the data analytics, enrollment management consultants still can't even figure out a high stats student's likelihood of attending - the yield algorithms are junk, a huge miss when test optional happened. I don't think they've recovered yet.

It's easy to imagine that the bulk of "diversity" admits will be sought from low-SES locations, and some colleges (other than Harvard) can only afford so many.