NVSL Seeding is out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of pools recruit. Even in the lower divisions. The division 1 teams are just more successful at it. Why do people care? It’s not against any rules and those teams all seem to enjoy the ultra competitive swim environment. It’s not like you don’t know what you are signing up for with those teams. If you want a different swim experience, you find a lower level team. We swim with a low division pool and love it. I couldn’t care less about what the other teams do.

Most of the low division teams are HOA pools. No low level pools recruit, how silly.

I’m not so sure that’s 100% accurate. We’re in a low division pool - we move between 8-11. We have a family that belongs to a country club. They also were at another NVSL pool simply for the swim team. That team was even lower than us - probably Division 15. Our head coach is an NCAP coach. They switched to our pool. The only time they are at our pool is for practice and meets. Since that family switched, we’ve had a few others that join simply for our swim team. Our coach is extremely popular with the kids.

I heard a rumor that Fox Mill Woods recruited a couple of 15-18 brothers back in 2017 to break two of the NVSL relay records. The brothers had been at Chesterbrook and switched to FMW, which was a Division 9 team at the time. They broke the NVSL 15-18 boys 200 Free relay that year and the 200 Medley the next year. The brothers went to W&L high school (Arlington) but Fox Mill Woods is in Reston.

This is true, but the boys weren't 'Recruited' by the FWM coach or FWM Team Reps, all 4 boys swam together at machine and decided to form a mega-relay.

I find that to be pretty disingenuous to summer league that those boys did that. The point of summer was a neighborhood rec league and here you have kids/parents gaming it for glory. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of pools recruit. Even in the lower divisions. The division 1 teams are just more successful at it. Why do people care? It’s not against any rules and those teams all seem to enjoy the ultra competitive swim environment. It’s not like you don’t know what you are signing up for with those teams. If you want a different swim experience, you find a lower level team. We swim with a low division pool and love it. I couldn’t care less about what the other teams do.

Most of the low division teams are HOA pools. No low level pools recruit, how silly.

I’m not so sure that’s 100% accurate. We’re in a low division pool - we move between 8-11. We have a family that belongs to a country club. They also were at another NVSL pool simply for the swim team. That team was even lower than us - probably Division 15. Our head coach is an NCAP coach. They switched to our pool. The only time they are at our pool is for practice and meets. Since that family switched, we’ve had a few others that join simply for our swim team. Our coach is extremely popular with the kids.

I heard a rumor that Fox Mill Woods recruited a couple of 15-18 brothers back in 2017 to break two of the NVSL relay records. The brothers had been at Chesterbrook and switched to FMW, which was a Division 9 team at the time. They broke the NVSL 15-18 boys 200 Free relay that year and the 200 Medley the next year. The brothers went to W&L high school (Arlington) but Fox Mill Woods is in Reston.

This is true, but the boys weren't 'Recruited' by the FWM coach or FWM Team Reps, all 4 boys swam together at machine and decided to form a mega-relay.

And their record has already been broken.

[Anonymous]

When you are on the waiting list at AFC you can still take lessons, join swim tea, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our hoa, little rocky run, has 2800 households with automatic number of pool memberships. If it was just about numbers, we would be competitive in D1.

that gets to a fundamental difference between a place like Overlee. At LRR, you are automatically in whether you really care or not, and whether or not you have young children. At Overlee, you had to get on their waitlist before your kid was born.

I do also find it odd, that looking at a map of NVSL pools (https://www.mynvsl.com/file/31348/NVSL_Map_of_102_Teams_updated_pdf) , all D1 teams are clustered together in the North Arlington/Falls Church/Mclean area.

That's where the parents can afford private lessons, year round swim, etc. Its the same with soccer.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I can't believe I'm defending chesterbrook- but you have proved nothing. There is no restriction in NVSL rules for swimming for the NVSL and another league, indeed many kids do this to swim long course with their club teams and swim summer league. Sure its a little odd that he was swimming for 2 different rec leagues so far apart (its a long way from PG county to mclean)- but as long as his family had a bona fide membership at both clubs he's not breaking any rules. Perhaps the parents are split and he divided his time between mclean and PG county.

First - year round (club swim) and summer swim are two different things. And, no one ever said you can't do both.

This is about the fact he was swimming for 2 different summer leagues at once. You are correct, there is nothing in the rules that states you can't swim for more than one summer league. The only restriction NVSL places is you can't swim for 2 different teams that are a part of the NVSL league. The interesting thing is he ONLY swam for them in 2019. He never swam for them before or after. He has no other time records in the NVSL database. Why would he only swim with them for 1 year? Chesterbrook needed him and his times. Just because he wasn't technically breaking the rules, doesn't make it right.

It goes against the principles of rec league, you know community based fun swimming. Swimming for two rec leagues is BS when he did not have ongoing relationship with one of them.

Also, NVSL states that you have to have a family membership with the pool in order to swim there and most require you to live in the house.

D1 is not really rec league

The entire league is REC league. Just because some teams have managed to cheat the system doesn't mean they are exempt from the rules.

Unless you believe that three pools just happen to produce the best swimmers from their membership year after year for decades, it's pretty obvious that it isn't a rec league at the top

like another poster already pointed out, what really makes these top 3 pools so good every year is their membership size is so much bigger than other pools in the NVSL. So even though our lower division pool may be able to beat them in a few cohorts (e.g 8u boys), these top teams consistently have so much depth they will dominate us in a meet. Even if you think Chesterbrook cheated here (i agree this does go against the spirit of the league), I don't believe cheating is rampant at these pools.

There memberships aren't really that much larger than other pools and certainly not enough to explain their results. The top 5 or 6 divisions are packed with similar sized pools, but these three win ever year

I can't really debate this since I don't know where to find all the data on pool membership size. Someone earlier mentioned that Overlee has over 800 families. That is well more than double the size of our pool (Div 3). Also, I have been to both Overlee and Chesterbrook (but not Tuckahoe) for non-swim league things. Their facilities are massive compared to ours. They both have a secondary pool that i think could probably host a meet without even using their larger pool.

It's all in the bylaws!

Overlee - capped 800 families, summer memberships allowed
Tuckahoe - capped to 3250 people, so ~ 800 families, temporary memberships allowed
chesterbrook - capped to 550 families, summer memberships allowed
Donaldson - capped to 650 families, summer memberships allowed
Highlands - capped to 500 families, summer memberships allowed
Mclean - capped to 450-500 families, renting out memberships allowed

Our pool has a two year waitlist and 450 memberships allowed. We do not allow summer memberships, which might be the vehicle that is used to recruit swimmers. I do not believe in the logic that it is their numbers that makes them D1. Statistics does not support that.

My family is at Overlee. There is no such thing as summer memberships. There are August passes, which allow an additional revenue stream when pool attendance is otherwise low. This doesn’t allow access to the swim team or any movement on the waitlist.. The list above is inaccurate and misleading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you are on the waiting list at AFC you can still take lessons, join swim tea, etc.

That can't be true since NVSL requires swimmers to be members of the pool they swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you are on the waiting list at AFC you can still take lessons, join swim tea, etc.

That can't be true since NVSL requires swimmers to be members of the pool they swim.

I was about to write the same thing (re joining swim team). Unless the rule is that they can join but not compete, this would be a big no-no under NVSL rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you are on the waiting list at AFC you can still take lessons, join swim tea, etc.

That can't be true since NVSL requires swimmers to be members of the pool they swim.

Our pool has full memberships and summer user memberships. The waitlist is about 8 year right now, but people at the top of the list are offered summer memberships. Summer members can join the tennis and swim teams

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of pools recruit. Even in the lower divisions. The division 1 teams are just more successful at it. Why do people care? It’s not against any rules and those teams all seem to enjoy the ultra competitive swim environment. It’s not like you don’t know what you are signing up for with those teams. If you want a different swim experience, you find a lower level team. We swim with a low division pool and love it. I couldn’t care less about what the other teams do.

Most of the low division teams are HOA pools. No low level pools recruit, how silly.

I’m not so sure that’s 100% accurate. We’re in a low division pool - we move between 8-11. We have a family that belongs to a country club. They also were at another NVSL pool simply for the swim team. That team was even lower than us - probably Division 15. Our head coach is an NCAP coach. They switched to our pool. The only time they are at our pool is for practice and meets. Since that family switched, we’ve had a few others that join simply for our swim team. Our coach is extremely popular with the kids.

I heard a rumor that Fox Mill Woods recruited a couple of 15-18 brothers back in 2017 to break two of the NVSL relay records. The brothers had been at Chesterbrook and switched to FMW, which was a Division 9 team at the time. They broke the NVSL 15-18 boys 200 Free relay that year and the 200 Medley the next year. The brothers went to W&L high school (Arlington) but Fox Mill Woods is in Reston.

This is true, but the boys weren't 'Recruited' by the FWM coach or FWM Team Reps, all 4 boys swam together at machine and decided to form a mega-relay.

I find that to be pretty disingenuous to summer league that those boys did that. The point of summer was a neighborhood rec league and here you have kids/parents gaming it for glory. Sad.

But who cares though? It’s a competitive league and the boys broke no rules and had fun. No harm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe I'm defending chesterbrook- but you have proved nothing. There is no restriction in NVSL rules for swimming for the NVSL and another league, indeed many kids do this to swim long course with their club teams and swim summer league. Sure its a little odd that he was swimming for 2 different rec leagues so far apart (its a long way from PG county to mclean)- but as long as his family had a bona fide membership at both clubs he's not breaking any rules. Perhaps the parents are split and he divided his time between mclean and PG county.

First - year round (club swim) and summer swim are two different things. And, no one ever said you can't do both.

This is about the fact he was swimming for 2 different summer leagues at once. You are correct, there is nothing in the rules that states you can't swim for more than one summer league. The only restriction NVSL places is you can't swim for 2 different teams that are a part of the NVSL league. The interesting thing is he ONLY swam for them in 2019. He never swam for them before or after. He has no other time records in the NVSL database. Why would he only swim with them for 1 year? Chesterbrook needed him and his times. Just because he wasn't technically breaking the rules, doesn't make it right.

It goes against the principles of rec league, you know community based fun swimming. Swimming for two rec leagues is BS when he did not have ongoing relationship with one of them.

Also, NVSL states that you have to have a family membership with the pool in order to swim there and most require you to live in the house.

D1 is not really rec league

The entire league is REC league. Just because some teams have managed to cheat the system doesn't mean they are exempt from the rules.

Unless you believe that three pools just happen to produce the best swimmers from their membership year after year for decades, it's pretty obvious that it isn't a rec league at the top

like another poster already pointed out, what really makes these top 3 pools so good every year is their membership size is so much bigger than other pools in the NVSL. So even though our lower division pool may be able to beat them in a few cohorts (e.g 8u boys), these top teams consistently have so much depth they will dominate us in a meet. Even if you think Chesterbrook cheated here (i agree this does go against the spirit of the league), I don't believe cheating is rampant at these pools.

There memberships aren't really that much larger than other pools and certainly not enough to explain their results. The top 5 or 6 divisions are packed with similar sized pools, but these three win ever year

I can't really debate this since I don't know where to find all the data on pool membership size. Someone earlier mentioned that Overlee has over 800 families. That is well more than double the size of our pool (Div 3). Also, I have been to both Overlee and Chesterbrook (but not Tuckahoe) for non-swim league things. Their facilities are massive compared to ours. They both have a secondary pool that i think could probably host a meet without even using their larger pool.

It's all in the bylaws!

Overlee - capped 800 families, summer memberships allowed
Tuckahoe - capped to 3250 people, so ~ 800 families, temporary memberships allowed
chesterbrook - capped to 550 families, summer memberships allowed
Donaldson - capped to 650 families, summer memberships allowed
Highlands - capped to 500 families, summer memberships allowed
Mclean - capped to 450-500 families, renting out memberships allowed

Our pool has a two year waitlist and 450 memberships allowed. We do not allow summer memberships, which might be the vehicle that is used to recruit swimmers. I do not believe in the logic that it is their numbers that makes them D1. Statistics does not support that.

My family is at Overlee. There is no such thing as summer memberships. There are August passes, which allow an additional revenue stream when pool attendance is otherwise low. This doesn’t allow access to the swim team or any movement on the waitlist.. The list above is inaccurate and misleading.

The list shows how many members are allowed and whether they offer any options for non members/waiting list families to swim in the summer, it doesn't imply that clubs are recruiting members just for the summer to stack their swim teams. Clubs really need the money and this reduces assessments for members, so it's a smart strategy. Overlee offers august access for nonmembers. Others offer may-aug ones. Others offer homeowners the chance to rent out or transfer their memberships. Others (not on this list) offer nothing. Relax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lots of pools recruit. Even in the lower divisions. The division 1 teams are just more successful at it. Why do people care? It’s not against any rules and those teams all seem to enjoy the ultra competitive swim environment. It’s not like you don’t know what you are signing up for with those teams. If you want a different swim experience, you find a lower level team. We swim with a low division pool and love it. I couldn’t care less about what the other teams do.

Most of the low division teams are HOA pools. No low level pools recruit, how silly.

I’m not so sure that’s 100% accurate. We’re in a low division pool - we move between 8-11. We have a family that belongs to a country club. They also were at another NVSL pool simply for the swim team. That team was even lower than us - probably Division 15. Our head coach is an NCAP coach. They switched to our pool. The only time they are at our pool is for practice and meets. Since that family switched, we’ve had a few others that join simply for our swim team. Our coach is extremely popular with the kids.

I heard a rumor that Fox Mill Woods recruited a couple of 15-18 brothers back in 2017 to break two of the NVSL relay records. The brothers had been at Chesterbrook and switched to FMW, which was a Division 9 team at the time. They broke the NVSL 15-18 boys 200 Free relay that year and the 200 Medley the next year. The brothers went to W&L high school (Arlington) but Fox Mill Woods is in Reston.

In reference to the record breaking 15-18 boys relay team, one of kids left CB (along with two younger siblings) for FMW and another kid left FS for FMW. CB hired a new recruiting coordinator the following year.