How do you find God if you don't believe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

Lucky you !

[Anonymous]

OP, my guess is that you, like many, have a fundamental misunderstanding of God and religion and what they actually teach. There is so much misunderstanding on this site and in media generally, even among people raised in a religion. Confusion is understandable. Deepak Chopra wrote easy to read overview of religions and what "God" is to them in, "How to Know God."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

Lucky you !

Dp, but this has nothing to do with luck. Keep your heart open, do your work, research and study and you will see the God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but OP, if you are still here, I would recommend watching some videos by Bishop Robert Barron. He has a lot of short clips that address some of the fundamental arguments (from logic and science) for the existence of God and he has a very approachable way of explaining these concepts. As a convert to Catholicism myself, I find that most people who don't believe in God actually don't believe some false God they made up in their mind. The absolute first question to answer is what we mean by God. The why we believe and what we owe to God questions are somewhat naturally answered once we understand who God is (and what He is not). So my advice is to focus on that fundamental question.

My other advice is to keep an open mind. God cannot come into your heart if you keep is sealed. You have to at least entertain the possibility that God exists, otherwise, don't bother down this path. But I think you are already there because you sense a dissatisfaction with the way things are. My own spiritual journey started from that same feeling, and that was enough of an opening to let God in, despite my atheist upbringing. As I started to read more theistic readings (I didn't start with Christianity but more general theism), i had all this skepticism (I am a lawyer by trade so the skepticism was endless). But I remember the moment vividly when I just suspended my skepticism and pretended that God did exist (literally just a moment "let me pretend there is a God"). Everything suddenly sense and all the pieces of my worldview that clashed or seem disjointed all came together once I looked at them through the theistic lens. Not saying that it will happen for you like this, but just that everyone will have their own unique/personal ah ha moments and to be open to them.

Why did you choose Catholicism Vs other Christian denominations ?

Once I was convinced there is a God, i started exploring different theistic religions. At first, i attended a Universalist Unitarian church because that was all I could handle. But then as I kept reading, that church was no longer enough (they tend to stay very surfacy about loving everyone and doing good but shies away from deeper questions). I read up on Islam but its view of God was not "that which nothing greater can be thought" imo, so I rejected that. I was really hung up on the idea of Jesus, so it took me a while to come to terms with Christianity as a possibility, but once I did, i started attending protestant churches simply out of accessibility. I found one I really liked (very intellectual approach to the Bible), but some reason, I just kept feeling like I had to keep searching. One day I walked into a Catholic Mass and while I was so confused by all the standing, kneeling, recitations, I felt a very deep sense of peace. Then I started researching Catholicism and everything I read just clicked and felt right (the theology not necessarily all the social teachings, which took more time). I remember reading the Catechism, which most people would probably find a dry read, and found it just so engaging haha!

I appreciate the depth of Catholicism, its comfort with and embrace of ambiguity and mystery. I think on the logic side, I find Protestantism to be unsustainable. In my exploration of protestant churches, some churches were so different from each other as to be almost separate religions. That surely cannot be how God intends for his church to be, so it was more easy for me to believe that Matthew 16:18 meant that God established one church and will stand by her to the end. Either that or we are all screwed imho, because otherwise we are just following our own egos by establishing 30,000 different churches.

I wonder why God let all those other religions exist, after establishing the one true religion of Roman Catholicism.

Because God is a huge believer in free will.

And not all religions need to be a zero sum game against Christianity. Most try to grasp at as much of the truth as possible, some getting closer than others, and that is why they hold appeal. Personally, when I learn about other religions, i try to focus on what they got right and appreciate those things, rather than the things that contradict Christianity. And to OP's original point, you can possibly adopt many religions/faiths if your goal is to live a happier life versus the status quo of not believing anything. Not necessarily because those faiths are entirely right, but because they may hold bits of truth, such as helping you focus on the deeper meanings in life or meditation to help calm and focus on the present, and those truths/practices can place you closer to God whether you recognize Him or not.

However, if your search is for the fullness of truth, Christianity (specifically Catholicism) is only religion worthy of belief. We're not even talking whether it's true or not, but just intellectually speaking, worthy of us. This is coming from someone who did not grow up in the West and who had quite the negative view of Christianity into my early 20s.

This kind of arrogance is another reason why Catholicism is not going to be my path to finding God/spirituality. This heavy handed close mindedness is a complete turn off for me. .

Why is it arrogance? I know Truth is unpopular these days and the only PC answer is everyone is entitled to their own Truths, but logically, you know that it's either there is no meaning whatsoever to the world, life OR there is one true religion right? Multiple religions cannot all be exactly right. Christianity is not mine. It is open to everyone. I fail to see the arrogance. It is rather ego and fear that prevents people from openly exploring Christianity.

Name any religions that can challenge Christianity.

NP
Challenge in what way ?
I grew up Christian but now I choose Buddhism/ Taoism and I accept Jesus’s moral and ethical teaching.
Why do Christians and Moslems want to convert people ?
That’s why I like Judaism, Hinduism , Buddhism and Taoism better.
Live and let live kind of religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but OP, if you are still here, I would recommend watching some videos by Bishop Robert Barron. He has a lot of short clips that address some of the fundamental arguments (from logic and science) for the existence of God and he has a very approachable way of explaining these concepts. As a convert to Catholicism myself, I find that most people who don't believe in God actually don't believe some false God they made up in their mind. The absolute first question to answer is what we mean by God. The why we believe and what we owe to God questions are somewhat naturally answered once we understand who God is (and what He is not). So my advice is to focus on that fundamental question.

My other advice is to keep an open mind. God cannot come into your heart if you keep is sealed. You have to at least entertain the possibility that God exists, otherwise, don't bother down this path. But I think you are already there because you sense a dissatisfaction with the way things are. My own spiritual journey started from that same feeling, and that was enough of an opening to let God in, despite my atheist upbringing. As I started to read more theistic readings (I didn't start with Christianity but more general theism), i had all this skepticism (I am a lawyer by trade so the skepticism was endless). But I remember the moment vividly when I just suspended my skepticism and pretended that God did exist (literally just a moment "let me pretend there is a God"). Everything suddenly sense and all the pieces of my worldview that clashed or seem disjointed all came together once I looked at them through the theistic lens. Not saying that it will happen for you like this, but just that everyone will have their own unique/personal ah ha moments and to be open to them.

Why did you choose Catholicism Vs other Christian denominations ?

Once I was convinced there is a God, i started exploring different theistic religions. At first, i attended a Universalist Unitarian church because that was all I could handle. But then as I kept reading, that church was no longer enough (they tend to stay very surfacy about loving everyone and doing good but shies away from deeper questions). I read up on Islam but its view of God was not "that which nothing greater can be thought" imo, so I rejected that. I was really hung up on the idea of Jesus, so it took me a while to come to terms with Christianity as a possibility, but once I did, i started attending protestant churches simply out of accessibility. I found one I really liked (very intellectual approach to the Bible), but some reason, I just kept feeling like I had to keep searching. One day I walked into a Catholic Mass and while I was so confused by all the standing, kneeling, recitations, I felt a very deep sense of peace. Then I started researching Catholicism and everything I read just clicked and felt right (the theology not necessarily all the social teachings, which took more time). I remember reading the Catechism, which most people would probably find a dry read, and found it just so engaging haha!

I appreciate the depth of Catholicism, its comfort with and embrace of ambiguity and mystery. I think on the logic side, I find Protestantism to be unsustainable. In my exploration of protestant churches, some churches were so different from each other as to be almost separate religions. That surely cannot be how God intends for his church to be, so it was more easy for me to believe that Matthew 16:18 meant that God established one church and will stand by her to the end. Either that or we are all screwed imho, because otherwise we are just following our own egos by establishing 30,000 different churches.

I wonder why God let all those other religions exist, after establishing the one true religion of Roman Catholicism.

Because God is a huge believer in free will.

And not all religions need to be a zero sum game against Christianity. Most try to grasp at as much of the truth as possible, some getting closer than others, and that is why they hold appeal. Personally, when I learn about other religions, i try to focus on what they got right and appreciate those things, rather than the things that contradict Christianity. And to OP's original point, you can possibly adopt many religions/faiths if your goal is to live a happier life versus the status quo of not believing anything. Not necessarily because those faiths are entirely right, but because they may hold bits of truth, such as helping you focus on the deeper meanings in life or meditation to help calm and focus on the present, and those truths/practices can place you closer to God whether you recognize Him or not.

However, if your search is for the fullness of truth, Christianity (specifically Catholicism) is only religion worthy of belief. We're not even talking whether it's true or not, but just intellectually speaking, worthy of us. This is coming from someone who did not grow up in the West and who had quite the negative view of Christianity into my early 20s.

This kind of arrogance is another reason why Catholicism is not going to be my path to finding God/spirituality. This heavy handed close mindedness is a complete turn off for me. .

Why is it arrogance? I know Truth is unpopular these days and the only PC answer is everyone is entitled to their own Truths, but logically, you know that it's either there is no meaning whatsoever to the world, life OR there is one true religion right? Multiple religions cannot all be exactly right. Christianity is not mine. It is open to everyone. I fail to see the arrogance. It is rather ego and fear that prevents people from openly exploring Christianity.

Name any religions that can challenge Christianity.

Ugh please give us a break - you are exhausting. We have heard plenty of your POV that Christianity is the only true religion - we get it. Many people disagree, you are not going to change those people's minds by lecturing on this forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

NP
The Golden Rule (You can find it in any great religion or moral philosophy)
Love, kindness and compassion.
The Buddha compared his teaching like a raft to cross over to the other side.

But where the Golden Rule came from? Can you cite the first source?

Why can’t it be natural in origin? Like other customs such as family and living in communities?

If you mean it is natural as in placed in the conscience of every man by God, then yes, it is natural and I think the right way to look at it and why it is commonly shared across many religions and cultures. if you mean developed organically on a social level, then it cannot be objective truth, only situational. Things like customs are not universal and no one can claim one custom is objectively better than another. Some cultures live in larger communities than others, some eat different diets, some value family unit more than individuals, but one is not more right than the other. So I think you need to argue that the golden rule is not like a mere custom, because you want to objectively say that it is morally superior to follow the golden rule.

Sorry, you have no evidence this is true. Not just no scientific evidence. No evidence of any kind.

I am not claiming anything is true. I am putting the choice to you. Either you accept golden rule as objective Truth, or it's just custom and therefore has no inherent meaning and is no better or commendable than someone else's belief that they should act always to their own advantage and screw everyone else.

I will point out that you’re post Does not mention God. That has a simple explanation: one is not necessary for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

Lucky you !

Dp, but this has nothing to do with luck. Keep your heart open, do your work, research and study and you will see the God.

Thanks for the gaslighting, but no thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

NP
The Golden Rule (You can find it in any great religion or moral philosophy)
Love, kindness and compassion.
The Buddha compared his teaching like a raft to cross over to the other side.

But where the Golden Rule came from? Can you cite the first source?

Why can’t it be natural in origin? Like other customs such as family and living in communities?

If you mean it is natural as in placed in the conscience of every man by God, then yes, it is natural and I think the right way to look at it and why it is commonly shared across many religions and cultures. if you mean developed organically on a social level, then it cannot be objective truth, only situational. Things like customs are not universal and no one can claim one custom is objectively better than another. Some cultures live in larger communities than others, some eat different diets, some value family unit more than individuals, but one is not more right than the other. So I think you need to argue that the golden rule is not like a mere custom, because you want to objectively say that it is morally superior to follow the golden rule.

Sorry, you have no evidence this is true. Not just no scientific evidence. No evidence of any kind.

I am not claiming anything is true. I am putting the choice to you. Either you accept golden rule as objective Truth, or it's just custom and therefore has no inherent meaning and is no better or commendable than someone else's belief that they should act always to their own advantage and screw everyone else.

I will point out that you’re post Does not mention God. That has a simple explanation: one is not necessary for this.

No, my post doesn't, because God is implied if you believe golden rule is objectively good. God is implied in order to have any meaningful conversation about what is right and just and good, otherwise it's all nonsense if we have no objective rubric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but OP, if you are still here, I would recommend watching some videos by Bishop Robert Barron. He has a lot of short clips that address some of the fundamental arguments (from logic and science) for the existence of God and he has a very approachable way of explaining these concepts. As a convert to Catholicism myself, I find that most people who don't believe in God actually don't believe some false God they made up in their mind. The absolute first question to answer is what we mean by God. The why we believe and what we owe to God questions are somewhat naturally answered once we understand who God is (and what He is not). So my advice is to focus on that fundamental question.

My other advice is to keep an open mind. God cannot come into your heart if you keep is sealed. You have to at least entertain the possibility that God exists, otherwise, don't bother down this path. But I think you are already there because you sense a dissatisfaction with the way things are. My own spiritual journey started from that same feeling, and that was enough of an opening to let God in, despite my atheist upbringing. As I started to read more theistic readings (I didn't start with Christianity but more general theism), i had all this skepticism (I am a lawyer by trade so the skepticism was endless). But I remember the moment vividly when I just suspended my skepticism and pretended that God did exist (literally just a moment "let me pretend there is a God"). Everything suddenly sense and all the pieces of my worldview that clashed or seem disjointed all came together once I looked at them through the theistic lens. Not saying that it will happen for you like this, but just that everyone will have their own unique/personal ah ha moments and to be open to them.

Why did you choose Catholicism Vs other Christian denominations ?

Once I was convinced there is a God, i started exploring different theistic religions. At first, i attended a Universalist Unitarian church because that was all I could handle. But then as I kept reading, that church was no longer enough (they tend to stay very surfacy about loving everyone and doing good but shies away from deeper questions). I read up on Islam but its view of God was not "that which nothing greater can be thought" imo, so I rejected that. I was really hung up on the idea of Jesus, so it took me a while to come to terms with Christianity as a possibility, but once I did, i started attending protestant churches simply out of accessibility. I found one I really liked (very intellectual approach to the Bible), but some reason, I just kept feeling like I had to keep searching. One day I walked into a Catholic Mass and while I was so confused by all the standing, kneeling, recitations, I felt a very deep sense of peace. Then I started researching Catholicism and everything I read just clicked and felt right (the theology not necessarily all the social teachings, which took more time). I remember reading the Catechism, which most people would probably find a dry read, and found it just so engaging haha!

I appreciate the depth of Catholicism, its comfort with and embrace of ambiguity and mystery. I think on the logic side, I find Protestantism to be unsustainable. In my exploration of protestant churches, some churches were so different from each other as to be almost separate religions. That surely cannot be how God intends for his church to be, so it was more easy for me to believe that Matthew 16:18 meant that God established one church and will stand by her to the end. Either that or we are all screwed imho, because otherwise we are just following our own egos by establishing 30,000 different churches.

I wonder why God let all those other religions exist, after establishing the one true religion of Roman Catholicism.

Because God is a huge believer in free will.

And not all religions need to be a zero sum game against Christianity. Most try to grasp at as much of the truth as possible, some getting closer than others, and that is why they hold appeal. Personally, when I learn about other religions, i try to focus on what they got right and appreciate those things, rather than the things that contradict Christianity. And to OP's original point, you can possibly adopt many religions/faiths if your goal is to live a happier life versus the status quo of not believing anything. Not necessarily because those faiths are entirely right, but because they may hold bits of truth, such as helping you focus on the deeper meanings in life or meditation to help calm and focus on the present, and those truths/practices can place you closer to God whether you recognize Him or not.

However, if your search is for the fullness of truth, Christianity (specifically Catholicism) is only religion worthy of belief. We're not even talking whether it's true or not, but just intellectually speaking, worthy of us. This is coming from someone who did not grow up in the West and who had quite the negative view of Christianity into my early 20s.

This kind of arrogance is another reason why Catholicism is not going to be my path to finding God/spirituality. This heavy handed close mindedness is a complete turn off for me. .

Why is it arrogance? I know Truth is unpopular these days and the only PC answer is everyone is entitled to their own Truths, but logically, you know that it's either there is no meaning whatsoever to the world, life OR there is one true religion right? Multiple religions cannot all be exactly right. Christianity is not mine. It is open to everyone. I fail to see the arrogance. It is rather ego and fear that prevents people from openly exploring Christianity.

Name any religions that can challenge Christianity.

NP
Challenge in what way ?
I grew up Christian but now I choose Buddhism/ Taoism and I accept Jesus’s moral and ethical teaching.
Why do Christians and Moslems want to convert people ?
That’s why I like Judaism, Hinduism , Buddhism and Taoism better.
Live and let live kind of religion.

Wait until your kid wants to marry a Jew before you say they don’t try to convert anybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

NP
The Golden Rule (You can find it in any great religion or moral philosophy)
Love, kindness and compassion.
The Buddha compared his teaching like a raft to cross over to the other side.

But where the Golden Rule came from? Can you cite the first source?

Why can’t it be natural in origin? Like other customs such as family and living in communities?

If you mean it is natural as in placed in the conscience of every man by God, then yes, it is natural and I think the right way to look at it and why it is commonly shared across many religions and cultures. if you mean developed organically on a social level, then it cannot be objective truth, only situational. Things like customs are not universal and no one can claim one custom is objectively better than another. Some cultures live in larger communities than others, some eat different diets, some value family unit more than individuals, but one is not more right than the other. So I think you need to argue that the golden rule is not like a mere custom, because you want to objectively say that it is morally superior to follow the golden rule.

Sorry, you have no evidence this is true. Not just no scientific evidence. No evidence of any kind.

I am not claiming anything is true. I am putting the choice to you. Either you accept golden rule as objective Truth, or it's just custom and therefore has no inherent meaning and is no better or commendable than someone else's belief that they should act always to their own advantage and screw everyone else.

I will point out that you’re post Does not mention God. That has a simple explanation: one is not necessary for this.

No, my post doesn't, because God is implied if you believe golden rule is objectively good. God is implied in order to have any meaningful conversation about what is right and just and good, otherwise it's all nonsense if we have no objective rubric.

That’s classic presuppositionalism, and therefore fallacious.

I will reiterate that you did not find it necessary to mention one to make your first point which is the best evidence that you also know it’s not necessary. Now you’re backpedaling.

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Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

Reality is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe. Period. Since the beginning of time, man has been using science to try to discover HOW that was done.

The two are not in conflict.

I'm afraid they are because humans wrote the Bible. And science doesn't presuppose a supernatural entity with divine powers created the universe. So they very much are in conflict.

Humans created science. If humans created the bible too, as you suggest, then the two can't possibly be in conflict.

alrighty then, No sense arguing with you!

Why would you come to the thread that asks people how did they found God if they don't believe? This thread addresses only people who found the God. Why would you insert yourself when you clearly don't believe in God? There are thousand other threads where you can go and find millions of atheists who share your values.

In this forum, there seems to be a lot of atheistic evangelizing in an attempt to pull people away from Christianity or faith in general. I find it odd because when I was an atheist, which was over two decades and for most of my adult life, I still recognized how precious it was to have faith and hope in something beyond this world, I just didn't have it. I would not have tried to persuade others in any direction regarding faith, or hang out in religion forums arguing about a God I didn't believe in. This makes me think those who are here are desperately seeking God and trying to fill the void created by the absence of God.

Atheists don't evangelize -- that's what Christians do. Not even other religions evangelize (e.g., Jews)

Many atheists were once religious themselves and know from their experience that no one forced them to leave religion. They did it on their own. No evangelizing.

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Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

NP
The Golden Rule (You can find it in any great religion or moral philosophy)
Love, kindness and compassion.
The Buddha compared his teaching like a raft to cross over to the other side.

But where the Golden Rule came from? Can you cite the first source?

Why can’t it be natural in origin? Like other customs such as family and living in communities?

If you mean it is natural as in placed in the conscience of every man by God, then yes, it is natural and I think the right way to look at it and why it is commonly shared across many religions and cultures. if you mean developed organically on a social level, then it cannot be objective truth, only situational. Things like customs are not universal and no one can claim one custom is objectively better than another. Some cultures live in larger communities than others, some eat different diets, some value family unit more than individuals, but one is not more right than the other. So I think you need to argue that the golden rule is not like a mere custom, because you want to objectively say that it is morally superior to follow the golden rule.

Sorry, you have no evidence this is true. Not just no scientific evidence. No evidence of any kind.

I am not claiming anything is true. I am putting the choice to you. Either you accept golden rule as objective Truth, or it's just custom and therefore has no inherent meaning and is no better or commendable than someone else's belief that they should act always to their own advantage and screw everyone else.

I will point out that you’re post Does not mention God. That has a simple explanation: one is not necessary for this.

No, my post doesn't, because God is implied if you believe golden rule is objectively good. God is implied in order to have any meaningful conversation about what is right and just and good, otherwise it's all nonsense if we have no objective rubric.

Atheists are good without God. There are lots of them out there. They are not breaking the law all the time. They are mainly good citizens - without god or religion.

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Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but OP, if you are still here, I would recommend watching some videos by Bishop Robert Barron. He has a lot of short clips that address some of the fundamental arguments (from logic and science) for the existence of God and he has a very approachable way of explaining these concepts. As a convert to Catholicism myself, I find that most people who don't believe in God actually don't believe some false God they made up in their mind. The absolute first question to answer is what we mean by God. The why we believe and what we owe to God questions are somewhat naturally answered once we understand who God is (and what He is not). So my advice is to focus on that fundamental question.

My other advice is to keep an open mind. God cannot come into your heart if you keep is sealed. You have to at least entertain the possibility that God exists, otherwise, don't bother down this path. But I think you are already there because you sense a dissatisfaction with the way things are. My own spiritual journey started from that same feeling, and that was enough of an opening to let God in, despite my atheist upbringing. As I started to read more theistic readings (I didn't start with Christianity but more general theism), i had all this skepticism (I am a lawyer by trade so the skepticism was endless). But I remember the moment vividly when I just suspended my skepticism and pretended that God did exist (literally just a moment "let me pretend there is a God"). Everything suddenly sense and all the pieces of my worldview that clashed or seem disjointed all came together once I looked at them through the theistic lens. Not saying that it will happen for you like this, but just that everyone will have their own unique/personal ah ha moments and to be open to them.

Why did you choose Catholicism Vs other Christian denominations ?

Once I was convinced there is a God, i started exploring different theistic religions. At first, i attended a Universalist Unitarian church because that was all I could handle. But then as I kept reading, that church was no longer enough (they tend to stay very surfacy about loving everyone and doing good but shies away from deeper questions). I read up on Islam but its view of God was not "that which nothing greater can be thought" imo, so I rejected that. I was really hung up on the idea of Jesus, so it took me a while to come to terms with Christianity as a possibility, but once I did, i started attending protestant churches simply out of accessibility. I found one I really liked (very intellectual approach to the Bible), but some reason, I just kept feeling like I had to keep searching. One day I walked into a Catholic Mass and while I was so confused by all the standing, kneeling, recitations, I felt a very deep sense of peace. Then I started researching Catholicism and everything I read just clicked and felt right (the theology not necessarily all the social teachings, which took more time). I remember reading the Catechism, which most people would probably find a dry read, and found it just so engaging haha!

I appreciate the depth of Catholicism, its comfort with and embrace of ambiguity and mystery. I think on the logic side, I find Protestantism to be unsustainable. In my exploration of protestant churches, some churches were so different from each other as to be almost separate religions. That surely cannot be how God intends for his church to be, so it was more easy for me to believe that Matthew 16:18 meant that God established one church and will stand by her to the end. Either that or we are all screwed imho, because otherwise we are just following our own egos by establishing 30,000 different churches.

I wonder why God let all those other religions exist, after establishing the one true religion of Roman Catholicism.

Because God is a huge believer in free will.

And not all religions need to be a zero sum game against Christianity. Most try to grasp at as much of the truth as possible, some getting closer than others, and that is why they hold appeal. Personally, when I learn about other religions, i try to focus on what they got right and appreciate those things, rather than the things that contradict Christianity. And to OP's original point, you can possibly adopt many religions/faiths if your goal is to live a happier life versus the status quo of not believing anything. Not necessarily because those faiths are entirely right, but because they may hold bits of truth, such as helping you focus on the deeper meanings in life or meditation to help calm and focus on the present, and those truths/practices can place you closer to God whether you recognize Him or not.

However, if your search is for the fullness of truth, Christianity (specifically Catholicism) is only religion worthy of belief. We're not even talking whether it's true or not, but just intellectually speaking, worthy of us. This is coming from someone who did not grow up in the West and who had quite the negative view of Christianity into my early 20s.

This kind of arrogance is another reason why Catholicism is not going to be my path to finding God/spirituality. This heavy handed close mindedness is a complete turn off for me. .

Why is it arrogance? I know Truth is unpopular these days and the only PC answer is everyone is entitled to their own Truths, but logically, you know that it's either there is no meaning whatsoever to the world, life OR there is one true religion right? Multiple religions cannot all be exactly right. Christianity is not mine. It is open to everyone. I fail to see the arrogance. It is rather ego and fear that prevents people from openly exploring Christianity.

Name any religions that can challenge Christianity.

NP
Challenge in what way ?
I grew up Christian but now I choose Buddhism/ Taoism and I accept Jesus’s moral and ethical teaching.
Why do Christians and Moslems want to convert people ?
That’s why I like Judaism, Hinduism , Buddhism and Taoism better.
Live and let live kind of religion.

Wait until your kid wants to marry a Jew before you say they don’t try to convert anybody.

That’s different if you want to get married they want you to join the community.
My point is Jewish scholars are not preaching to convert people.
You tell them you are Christian they are not arguing with you why Jesus isn’t God.

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Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

NP
The Golden Rule (You can find it in any great religion or moral philosophy)
Love, kindness and compassion.
The Buddha compared his teaching like a raft to cross over to the other side.

But where the Golden Rule came from? Can you cite the first source?

Why can’t it be natural in origin? Like other customs such as family and living in communities?

Because humans don’t tend to do great left to their own devices. Slavery, child sacrifice, worshipping and believing the sun or gods and goddesses, and other gods represented by nature (sacrificing humans for a good harvest, chanting and dancing for rain to relieve drought, etc) is not a good way to live.

In America, Christianity was the driving force behind the abolition of slavery. Slavery still exists throughout the world. But not in America.

People will always try to make sense of and order their world. People will always seek a higher understanding and look for guidance from the world around them.

Christianity is the ultimate guide to helping humans live decent and loving lives.

Top 10 Countries with the Highest Prevalence of Modern Slavery (by total number of slaves) - Global Slavery Index 2018:

India - 7,989,000
China - 3,864,000
North Korea - 2,640,000
Nigeria - 1,386,000
Iran - 1,289,000
Indonesia - 1,220,000
Congo (Democratic Republic of) - 1,045,000
Russia - 794,000
Philippines - 784,000
Afghanistan - 749,000


So, leaving things up to community vote is not a good way to organize your community. The strong take control of and subjugate the weak-women, kids, the poor- are used and abused.

Christianity believes each of God’s creations are in their own right worthy of respect, fair treatment, and love.

I realize people like you who have this “community theory” and believe that some how humans pull together and make things work for the good of all have permanent rose colored glasses and a cushy life here in America. Please travel and don’t stay on a resort and see how it’s going for people not born into American privilege, you might not be so hot on your theory after a few visits to the 3rd world.

In America, we have freedom of religion. There is no state religion. Currently, there is a Christian majority, but it is waning.

And Christianity is for the world, not just America. Jesus offers salvation to each man, woman, and child worldwide - not to just the lucky white people born into privileged communities in America.

Jesus offers salvation to each man, woman, and child worldwide - who believes in him. Many people don't. They believe in another diety or none at all.

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Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

Reality is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe. Period. Since the beginning of time, man has been using science to try to discover HOW that was done.

The two are not in conflict.

I'm afraid they are because humans wrote the Bible. And science doesn't presuppose a supernatural entity with divine powers created the universe. So they very much are in conflict.

Humans created science. If humans created the bible too, as you suggest, then the two can't possibly be in conflict.

alrighty then, No sense arguing with you!

Why would you come to the thread that asks people how did they found God if they don't believe? This thread addresses only people who found the God. Why would you insert yourself when you clearly don't believe in God? There are thousand other threads where you can go and find millions of atheists who share your values.

In this forum, there seems to be a lot of atheistic evangelizing in an attempt to pull people away from Christianity or faith in general. I find it odd because when I was an atheist, which was over two decades and for most of my adult life, I still recognized how precious it was to have faith and hope in something beyond this world, I just didn't have it. I would not have tried to persuade others in any direction regarding faith, or hang out in religion forums arguing about a God I didn't believe in. This makes me think those who are here are desperately seeking God and trying to fill the void created by the absence of God.

Atheists don't evangelize -- that's what Christians do. Not even other religions evangelize (e.g., Jews)

Many atheists were once religious themselves and know from their experience that no one forced them to leave religion. They did it on their own. No evangelizing.

Oh, please, read other forums where atheists bashing Christians. They may not call it evangelization, but they clearly promote the false narrative of Christianity, and their hate and despice of Christian people.