How do you find God if you don't believe?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

Reality is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe. Period. Since the beginning of time, man has been using science to try to discover HOW that was done.

The two are not in conflict.

I'm afraid they are because humans wrote the Bible. And science doesn't presuppose a supernatural entity with divine powers created the universe. So they very much are in conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

Reality is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe. Period. Since the beginning of time, man has been using science to try to discover HOW that was done.

The two are not in conflict.

I'm afraid they are because humans wrote the Bible. And science doesn't presuppose a supernatural entity with divine powers created the universe. So they very much are in conflict.

Humans created science. If humans created the bible too, as you suggest, then the two can't possibly be in conflict.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

Reality is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe. Period. Since the beginning of time, man has been using science to try to discover HOW that was done.

The two are not in conflict.

I'm afraid they are because humans wrote the Bible. And science doesn't presuppose a supernatural entity with divine powers created the universe. So they very much are in conflict.

Humans created science. If humans created the bible too, as you suggest, then the two can't possibly be in conflict.

alrighty then, No sense arguing with you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

Reality is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe. Period. Since the beginning of time, man has been using science to try to discover HOW that was done.

The two are not in conflict.

I'm afraid they are because humans wrote the Bible. And science doesn't presuppose a supernatural entity with divine powers created the universe. So they very much are in conflict.

Your premise isn't objective or logical. If science is truly neutral and objective, then religion and science don't conflict. As you said, science does not presuppose that there is a God. If you had said that science presupposes that God does not exist, then religion and science naturally would be incompatible. But that's not the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

Reality is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe. Period. Since the beginning of time, man has been using science to try to discover HOW that was done.

The two are not in conflict.

I'm afraid they are because humans wrote the Bible. And science doesn't presuppose a supernatural entity with divine powers created the universe. So they very much are in conflict.

Humans created science. If humans created the bible too, as you suggest, then the two can't possibly be in conflict.

alrighty then, No sense arguing with you!

Why would you come to the thread that asks people how did they found God if they don't believe? This thread addresses only people who found the God. Why would you insert yourself when you clearly don't believe in God? There are thousand other threads where you can go and find millions of atheists who share your values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

Why was it wasted? What else would you have done with your time other than try your best to find and know your creator? You might not have gotten the results you expected but doesn't mean it is wasted (and God certainly wouldn't see it as wasted). I urge you to continue seeking him. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. And sometimes it is more about listening than speaking. From book of Kings: "After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper."

Even people who experience strong conversions go through long periods of perceived silence from God (google "dark night of the soul"). There is a lot of theological background on this phenomenon but the short of it is, God wants a relationship with you and everything he does or allows to happen is for the purpose of bringing you closer in the long run.

[Anonymous]

OMG people, stop it with the science vs religion nonsense. The two are not in conflict because they don't deal with the same level of reality. Go read up on any serious biblical scholar. This is such a straw man argument from atheists. If you don't want to honestly engage with Christians, just go away and don't, but if you want to have a real conversation, bring forth real arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

Reality is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe. Period. Since the beginning of time, man has been using science to try to discover HOW that was done.

The two are not in conflict.

I'm afraid they are because humans wrote the Bible. And science doesn't presuppose a supernatural entity with divine powers created the universe. So they very much are in conflict.

Science doesn't presuppose the absence of a supernatural entity, either. Does this mean that science and atheism are in conflict?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, but OP, if you are still here, I would recommend watching some videos by Bishop Robert Barron. He has a lot of short clips that address some of the fundamental arguments (from logic and science) for the existence of God and he has a very approachable way of explaining these concepts. As a convert to Catholicism myself, I find that most people who don't believe in God actually don't believe some false God they made up in their mind. The absolute first question to answer is what we mean by God. The why we believe and what we owe to God questions are somewhat naturally answered once we understand who God is (and what He is not). So my advice is to focus on that fundamental question.

My other advice is to keep an open mind. God cannot come into your heart if you keep is sealed. You have to at least entertain the possibility that God exists, otherwise, don't bother down this path. But I think you are already there because you sense a dissatisfaction with the way things are. My own spiritual journey started from that same feeling, and that was enough of an opening to let God in, despite my atheist upbringing. As I started to read more theistic readings (I didn't start with Christianity but more general theism), i had all this skepticism (I am a lawyer by trade so the skepticism was endless). But I remember the moment vividly when I just suspended my skepticism and pretended that God did exist (literally just a moment "let me pretend there is a God"). Everything suddenly sense and all the pieces of my worldview that clashed or seem disjointed all came together once I looked at them through the theistic lens. Not saying that it will happen for you like this, but just that everyone will have their own unique/personal ah ha moments and to be open to them.

Why did you choose Catholicism Vs other Christian denominations ?

Once I was convinced there is a God, i started exploring different theistic religions. At first, i attended a Universalist Unitarian church because that was all I could handle. But then as I kept reading, that church was no longer enough (they tend to stay very surfacy about loving everyone and doing good but shies away from deeper questions). I read up on Islam but its view of God was not "that which nothing greater can be thought" imo, so I rejected that. I was really hung up on the idea of Jesus, so it took me a while to come to terms with Christianity as a possibility, but once I did, i started attending protestant churches simply out of accessibility. I found one I really liked (very intellectual approach to the Bible), but some reason, I just kept feeling like I had to keep searching. One day I walked into a Catholic Mass and while I was so confused by all the standing, kneeling, recitations, I felt a very deep sense of peace. Then I started researching Catholicism and everything I read just clicked and felt right (the theology not necessarily all the social teachings, which took more time). I remember reading the Catechism, which most people would probably find a dry read, and found it just so engaging haha!

I appreciate the depth of Catholicism, its comfort with and embrace of ambiguity and mystery. I think on the logic side, I find Protestantism to be unsustainable. In my exploration of protestant churches, some churches were so different from each other as to be almost separate religions. That surely cannot be how God intends for his church to be, so it was more easy for me to believe that Matthew 16:18 meant that God established one church and will stand by her to the end. Either that or we are all screwed imho, because otherwise we are just following our own egos by establishing 30,000 different churches.

I wonder why God let all those other religions exist, after establishing the one true religion of Roman Catholicism.

Because God is a huge believer in free will.

And not all religions need to be a zero sum game against Christianity. Most try to grasp at as much of the truth as possible, some getting closer than others, and that is why they hold appeal. Personally, when I learn about other religions, i try to focus on what they got right and appreciate those things, rather than the things that contradict Christianity. And to OP's original point, you can possibly adopt many religions/faiths if your goal is to live a happier life versus the status quo of not believing anything. Not necessarily because those faiths are entirely right, but because they may hold bits of truth, such as helping you focus on the deeper meanings in life or meditation to help calm and focus on the present, and those truths/practices can place you closer to God whether you recognize Him or not.

However, if your search is for the fullness of truth, Christianity (specifically Catholicism) is only religion worthy of belief. We're not even talking whether it's true or not, but just intellectually speaking, worthy of us. This is coming from someone who did not grow up in the West and who had quite the negative view of Christianity into my early 20s.

This kind of arrogance is another reason why Catholicism is not going to be my path to finding God/spirituality. This heavy handed close mindedness is a complete turn off for me. .

Why is it arrogance? I know Truth is unpopular these days and the only PC answer is everyone is entitled to their own Truths, but logically, you know that it's either there is no meaning whatsoever to the world, life OR there is one true religion right? Multiple religions cannot all be exactly right. Christianity is not mine. It is open to everyone. I fail to see the arrogance. It is rather ego and fear that prevents people from openly exploring Christianity.

Name any religions that can challenge Christianity.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

NP
The Golden Rule (You can find it in any great religion or moral philosophy)
Love, kindness and compassion.
The Buddha compared his teaching like a raft to cross over to the other side.

But where the Golden Rule came from? Can you cite the first source?

Why can’t it be natural in origin? Like other customs such as family and living in communities?

If you mean it is natural as in placed in the conscience of every man by God, then yes, it is natural and I think the right way to look at it and why it is commonly shared across many religions and cultures. if you mean developed organically on a social level, then it cannot be objective truth, only situational. Things like customs are not universal and no one can claim one custom is objectively better than another. Some cultures live in larger communities than others, some eat different diets, some value family unit more than individuals, but one is not more right than the other. So I think you need to argue that the golden rule is not like a mere custom, because you want to objectively say that it is morally superior to follow the golden rule.

Sorry, you have no evidence this is true. Not just no scientific evidence. No evidence of any kind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Postscript: I am a big fan of humility. I cannot prove my side, and you cannot prove your side.

If G-d wanted His existence to be provable, He could easily make it so, as in the Bible. Why doesn't He?

I have a number of theories on the topic, but mainly it boils down to me being a mortal humans who will never have all the answers in life.

As for how being religious makes you happy, if you read my piece about travel with family being an atonement for sin, it's a meaningful reframe of life that often comes along with a sense of community.

God proved his existence to us in so many ways. Some people just chose to ignore the evidence.

Where is this evidence?

I see evidence God exists in the world He created.

Do you have evidence I don’t see God in the world He created? If you do, well, that’s news to me. You could not be more wrong.

Oh, I don’t doubt you believe you see it

I also don’t doubt that you don’t see the presupposition of what you typed. That’s not how evidence works. What couldn’t be given credit for the origin of the universe with that logic? I see the evidence of the Loch Ness monster in the world, the Loch Ness monster created. See?

We’ve had this conversation how many times?

Evidence is not needed nor could any evidence prove or disprove God.

We don’t have tests, measurements, tools, or scientific knowledge to measure God.

You are asking repeatedly for evidence, and I give the same answer consistently correct answer, over and over again.

Sorry you can’t come to terms with reality.

Reality is that the Bible tells us that God created the universe. Period. Since the beginning of time, man has been using science to try to discover HOW that was done.

The two are not in conflict.

I'm afraid they are because humans wrote the Bible. And science doesn't presuppose a supernatural entity with divine powers created the universe. So they very much are in conflict.

Humans created science. If humans created the bible too, as you suggest, then the two can't possibly be in conflict.

alrighty then, No sense arguing with you!

Why would you come to the thread that asks people how did they found God if they don't believe? This thread addresses only people who found the God. Why would you insert yourself when you clearly don't believe in God? There are thousand other threads where you can go and find millions of atheists who share your values.

In this forum, there seems to be a lot of atheistic evangelizing in an attempt to pull people away from Christianity or faith in general. I find it odd because when I was an atheist, which was over two decades and for most of my adult life, I still recognized how precious it was to have faith and hope in something beyond this world, I just didn't have it. I would not have tried to persuade others in any direction regarding faith, or hang out in religion forums arguing about a God I didn't believe in. This makes me think those who are here are desperately seeking God and trying to fill the void created by the absence of God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

Hmmm. I wonder why God "reache[s] out" to some people and not others? Seems very arbitrary. Like in the OT, reaching out to one particular family in the desert of Iraq. Well, God moves in mysterious ways that's for sure.

No one can understand God's ways, that's for sure. And how could we, when we are talking about God? It is like expecting 2 dimensional creatures to understand the ways of the 3D world, or those who see in black and white what it's like to see in colors, except all that times a million. If you expect to understand exactly how God works before believing, you are misguided because no one will ever accomplish that in this life. Our brains are incapable of it, and I would be suspicious of any religion that claims otherwise.

We are not all destined to be the same or to have the same relationship with God. Here are the words of St. Therese of Lisieux (little flower):

Jesus has been gracious enough to teach me a lesson about the mystery of the differences in souls, simply by holding up to my eyes, the book of nature. I understood how all the flowers God created are beautiful- how the splendor of the rose and the whiteness of the lily do not take away from the perfume of the violet or the simplicity of the daisy. I understood that if all flowers wanted to be roses, nature would lose her springtime beauty, and the fields would no longer be decked out with little wildflower.

And so it is in the world of souls… Jesus’ garden. He willed to create great souls comparable to lilies and roses, but he created small ones as well… and these must be content to be daisies or violets destined to give joy to God’s glances, when he looks down at His feet. Perfection consists in doing God’s will… in being what He would have us be.

JUST AS THE sun shines simultaneously on the tall cedars and on each little flower as though it were alone on the earth, so Our Lord is occupied particularly with each soul as though there were no others like it. And just as in nature all the seasons are arranged in such a way as to make the humblest daisy bloom on a set day, in the same way, everything works out for the good of each soul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just talk to God. Like a friend - every day. After a few weeks you may have some answers and peace come to you…that’s your answer.

I spoke to god every day of my life for 50 years and never found peace or answers. That was my answer...I don't believe there was anyone listening and I'm sorry I wasted all that time.

People that "think" they are "talking to god" or that he is talking to them, are just convincing themselves of something that they WANT to be true.

I didn't have to convince myself. God reached out to me and I had nothing to do with it.

Hmmm. I wonder why God "reache[s] out" to some people and not others? Seems very arbitrary. Like in the OT, reaching out to one particular family in the desert of Iraq. Well, God moves in mysterious ways that's for sure.

No one can understand God's ways, that's for sure. And how could we, when we are talking about God? It is like expecting 2 dimensional creatures to understand the ways of the 3D world, or those who see in black and white what it's like to see in colors, except all that times a million. If you expect to understand exactly how God works before believing, you are misguided because no one will ever accomplish that in this life. Our brains are incapable of it, and I would be suspicious of any religion that claims otherwise.

We are not all destined to be the same or to have the same relationship with God. Here are the words of St. Therese of Lisieux (little flower):

Jesus has been gracious enough to teach me a lesson about the mystery of the differences in souls, simply by holding up to my eyes, the book of nature. I understood how all the flowers God created are beautiful- how the splendor of the rose and the whiteness of the lily do not take away from the perfume of the violet or the simplicity of the daisy. I understood that if all flowers wanted to be roses, nature would lose her springtime beauty, and the fields would no longer be decked out with little wildflower.

And so it is in the world of souls… Jesus’ garden. He willed to create great souls comparable to lilies and roses, but he created small ones as well… and these must be content to be daisies or violets destined to give joy to God’s glances, when he looks down at His feet. Perfection consists in doing God’s will… in being what He would have us be.

JUST AS THE sun shines simultaneously on the tall cedars and on each little flower as though it were alone on the earth, so Our Lord is occupied particularly with each soul as though there were no others like it. And just as in nature all the seasons are arranged in such a way as to make the humblest daisy bloom on a set day, in the same way, everything works out for the good of each soul.

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oops, double posted.

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Anonymous wrote:I am asking this question after reading a previous post about people being depressed because they don't have religion in their lives. I am an atheist in my 40s, although I considered myself Christian until my early 20's. However with life and experience I find it impossible to believe in a 'God' and especially anything written in the Bible. It all seems totally unbelievable to me and I hate the way it has given people reasons to discriminate against LGBTQ communities.

I struggle on and off with depression and sometimes I wished I did have a faith to comfort me. It is very easy for people to say you should turn to Jesus etc, but to me it is like believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

OP, have you ever found anything in your life?

I went to a Catholic boarding school and was one of the few non catholic students (although baptized Christian). I was judged by some very uptight religious teachers and overheard them gossip about my 'unorthodox'family. I tried to make them like me more by attending all the optional evening prayer services and tried to talk to God but never felt heard. In my late teens and early 20's I struggled really badly with OCD and depression and pleaded to God to help me but I felt no comfort only suicidal. The only thing that helped me in the end was antidepressants and therapy. I stopped believing in God after this bout of depression and it all seems a lot of hateful made up nonsense to me now. But I do often think it would be nice to believe, some of my good friends do, I just can't seem to make that stretch. Whatever happens I know Catholic Church is not for me or any religion who thinks that being in a same sex relationship is a sin.

PP here that is a Catholic convert from atheism. OP, i'm sorry about your experience as an outside at Catholic school. Having not grown up Catholic, this is my fear of catholic schools and sometimes I almost wonder if it is better to keep my kids from Catholicism until they reach adulthood and can then approach it with fresh mature eyes rather than be tainted by Catholic culture as kids. Anyways, I would caution writing off any religion. To seek the truth, you must be open to wherever it leads you, because you must let God do the leading. If you are writing something off, it means you don't want to be led and therefore you won't be. Your faith, or relationship with the Divine, or whatever you want to call it, has to be the central compass of you life. It is what will inform your other social and moral conviction (like the issue of same sex marriage), not the other way around.

I don't believe I need God to give me a social or moral compass. I'm a good person that helps others in need, a good friend, I give to charity and volunteer my time. I think that is integral to being human, shaped my life experience. You don't have to have faith to make the right choices. And if same sex marriage is an example of something that God thinks is a wrong moral choice then the Catholic version of 'God' is absolutely not what I am looking for.

How do you make sure that your moral compass is always showing North and not get derailed by magnetic field of mass media or public opinion?

NP
The Golden Rule (You can find it in any great religion or moral philosophy)
Love, kindness and compassion.
The Buddha compared his teaching like a raft to cross over to the other side.

But where the Golden Rule came from? Can you cite the first source?

Why can’t it be natural in origin? Like other customs such as family and living in communities?

If you mean it is natural as in placed in the conscience of every man by God, then yes, it is natural and I think the right way to look at it and why it is commonly shared across many religions and cultures. if you mean developed organically on a social level, then it cannot be objective truth, only situational. Things like customs are not universal and no one can claim one custom is objectively better than another. Some cultures live in larger communities than others, some eat different diets, some value family unit more than individuals, but one is not more right than the other. So I think you need to argue that the golden rule is not like a mere custom, because you want to objectively say that it is morally superior to follow the golden rule.

Sorry, you have no evidence this is true. Not just no scientific evidence. No evidence of any kind.

I am not claiming anything is true. I am putting the choice to you. Either you accept golden rule as objective Truth, or it's just custom and therefore has no inherent meaning and is no better or commendable than someone else's belief that they should act always to their own advantage and screw everyone else.