Started working at an elementary school last week. Shocked and sad. AMA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

Do you know how condescending this sounds, that teachers should basically work for the love of the job as opposed to making decent wages? Would you take on more challenging work at your job without additional compensation? Let’s be real there are definitely sexist connotations to this concept of teachers (predominantly women) taking on the work for the love of children. No one would talk like this about a male-dominated industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, whether or not a teacher has a desire to work with sped inclusion kids (hey, great for them if they do) it doesn't change the fact that this classroom setup negatively affects the other students in the class, regardless of how "good" the teacher is.

And unless a teacher has an additional sped certification, they have very minimal training on this - a few bits in college and some bad PD's.

And we are back to “sped inclusion” being poorly defined and nothing serious being said.
Back to school everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

Do you know how condescending this sounds, that teachers should basically work for the love of the job as opposed to making decent wages? Would you take on more challenging work at your job without additional compensation? Let’s be real there are definitely sexist connotations to this concept of teachers (predominantly women) taking on the work for the love of children. No one would talk like this about a male-dominated industry.

+100. I guess teachers are supposed to martyr themselves? Its okay to not want to take on additional work/responsibility without additional compensation. That does not make one a bad teacher or evil human being.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

It also doesn’t serve the SN kids! If the SN parents have to drug, punish, pay thousands for aides all to survive school, why are they in school in the first place??? It’s obviously not the right environment for them.

I really don't know what some of these kids are getting from being mainstreamed, apart from basically being in a babysitter's care at school. I heard of a kid last year who would actually run out of the classroom and bolt for the outside door and try to run into traffic. I don't know of a teacher or aide who met him who wasn't punched or kicked. Because of laws and regulations now, we also cannot "physically restrain" or restrict kids at all unless specially trained (which teachers and aides are not), so he is allowed to wander the classroom, run out of specials into the hall, and run outside to have his own recess and an assistant teacher can do nothing but follow him and try to redirect. We cannot guide him physically. A kid like that is not getting anything out of being in a regular classroom.

I am NOT talking about kid with dyslexia or who has a hearing aide! The examples people are giving above are not at all what I am talking about. I am talking about the extreme outliers who make it near impossible for other kids to learn and who are repeatedly physically violent to adults and peers.

PP, are you a teacher? Or for the teachers reading this, I am curious: Do you ever appeal to the Union to address these issues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

You are very naive. Parochial schools are not taking the kid that throws chairs, threatens violence and screams out of the blue. If for some reason one of those kids materialized in a parochial school classroom by slipping through the interview cracks they are counseled out quickly.

Why are you emotionally battering teachers in public schools who are dealing with things you can't even fathom and then calling them weak for not asking for more the next day?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

That is the fundamental gap. They do belong in regular classrooms. Remember back in the 60’s when kids in wheelchairs were sent to special schools, away from the “regular” kids? Ruled unconstitutional. Thank god for the ADA. Same applies here hence the ‘least restrictive environment’ laws.

JUST STOP. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS OR DYSLEXIA AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT.

So freaking disingenuous.

I don't think it's disingenuous. It wasn't long ago that physically disabled people could not access schools or other public resources., whether they were intellectually able or not. We can all agree that was wrong. Also, not too long ago, black people were not allowed to attend the publicly funded schools. Very wrong.

Now we are talking if kids who are disruptive/violent or special needs can attend school?

I don't want violence around my child, but where the distiction is made is impossible. Profoundly SN kids do have schools here in DC. Kids who are traumatized/on spectrum/LD probably do belong in public school. Private has been the option for people who want their kids insulated.

Excuse me? “Where the distinction is made” wrt violence is NOT impossible. Are they hurting others or not? Next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

You are very naive. Parochial schools are not taking the kid that throws chairs, threatens violence and screams out of the blue. If for some reason one of those kids materialized in a parochial school classroom by slipping through the interview cracks they are counseled out quickly.

Why are you emotionally battering teachers in public schools who are dealing with things you can't even fathom and then calling them weak for not asking for more the next day?[/quote

Emotionally battering? they are adults who have a job with certain responsibilities that this ONE teacher who is bashing (do you prefer emotionally battering? Ha!) SN kids is not up for. That’s calling a spade a spade, and if they are to sensitive to hear it, then they are revealing part of the problem.
Re: parochial schools: I am not naïve. The same thing happens at parochial school. If child can’t be controlled, eventually they leave. But the same thing happens in public school. Both places have procedures. That’s why… it must be said again…. There ARE self-contained public classrooms and separate programs for violent children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All you folks talking about poorly behaved special needs kids are likely NOT parents of kids with unique needs, and you should consider yourself lucky. Such holier than thou attitudes and a wholesale lack of empathy for kids.

No kid WANTS to behave that way. Behaviors like that are expressing an unmet need. Those kids are in a world a hurt and need support, possibly therapy or other tools. It is not unlike a kid with dyslexia or even a physical disability.

Schools, SN kids, and resources were barely getting by pre pandemic and now we’ve got two years of no progress and more stress on everyone, especially those kids who were left behind. And the learning loss amongst SN kids was far worse than most typical kids.

Rather than fault the kids, or the parents of those kids, start screaming at your school boards and their inane funding priorities. Raise teacher salaries, invest in more SN instructional assistants and their training, more case managers and specialists. Maybe something more than 1 BCBA for 25 schools would help…

All people are saying is that those kids don't belong in the classroom with neurotypical kids. It doesn't serve society well to help out one or two kids at the expense of 25 others.

That is the fundamental gap. They do belong in regular classrooms. Remember back in the 60’s when kids in wheelchairs were sent to special schools, away from the “regular” kids? Ruled unconstitutional. Thank god for the ADA. Same applies here hence the ‘least restrictive environment’ laws.

JUST STOP. NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT WHEELCHAIRS OR DYSLEXIA AND YOU DAMN WELL KNOW THAT.

So freaking disingenuous.

I don't think it's disingenuous. It wasn't long ago that physically disabled people could not access schools or other public resources., whether they were intellectually able or not. We can all agree that was wrong. Also, not too long ago, black people were not allowed to attend the publicly funded schools. Very wrong.

Now we are talking if kids who are disruptive/violent or special needs can attend school?

I don't want violence around my child, but where the distiction is made is impossible. Profoundly SN kids do have schools here in DC. Kids who are traumatized/on spectrum/LD probably do belong in public school. Private has been the option for people who want their kids insulated.

It’s really gross that some posters keep trying to insist that having violent or highly verbally disruptive kids in the classroom is the same thing as having a child in a wheel chair sitting there or good forbid a black child (?!!) in the classroom. There’s something really wrong with you if you honestly think that.

The distinction is clear - when the teacher has to literally stop classes to reprimand someone, try to keep them on task, chase them because they ran outside, evacuate all tye other kids in the classroom because a child is screaming or destroying things. Those kids clearly do not belong in the classroom. Kids who stop the teachers from teaching do not belong in the classroom. They are the kids we’re talking about.

YES. And god forbid you say it out loud, you will be shamed. This came up recently in a mom group and the mom posted about her daughter's learning being interrupted constantly because of chair throwing and constant evacuations. She was bullied so hard on her post... everything was "well think about the poor kid that's throwing chairs and injuring others" and "this is the most ableist post ever". She was literally shredded. I felt bad for her. What about her kid? Doesn't she deserve to learn free from fear of getting whacked in the head with a flying object? What about the other 20 kids that deserve that as well?

We went through this last year in 1st grade and it was wild. I emailed and called the principal when I found out how frequently my DD's classroom was getting evacuated. Sometimes multiple times a day. Those kids were not learning and whatever they were doing to try to keep the behavior kid calmed down was not working and I demanded more. The response was that they couldn't or wouldn't. So it was an absolute dumpster fire of a year. And guess what? My DD's teacher quit teaching after that year. We wonder why there's a teacher shortage. I wouldn't put up with the BS either.

This is when all parents in the classroom with impacted kids need to rally together and fight back as a group. Daily communications to the school and superintendents. Attending every school board meeting and making a racket. Any child injured, their parent files a police report. Your children are entitled to FAPE too.

Exactly. That’s what I did and it worked. My husband joked it was because I got the fathers, of whom several were attorneys, in the room with the Asst Superintendent. The “disruptive kid” was not having his needs met so he was transferred to a special placement. They kept the entire class together for the next grade (third) so they could monitor their educational progress, because they had missed so much instructional time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had this feeling too. I volunteered at a kindergarten party in my sons class. 30 kids one teacher one aid. The aid spent the entire time trying to get 3 kids under control. They were throwing chairs in the reading corner, tackling each other, yelling and screaming. I finally understood why when I had the parent teacher conference it seemed like the teacher had no clue who my average child was. He was lost in the noise, sometimes literally. It was heartbreaking. I don’t fault the teachers I fault government actors who have consistently fought to under support public education for the last 40 years and the push to mainstream all children which does not provide those most in need with environs conducive to their own healthy growth and learning and undermines the education of more average performers. It’s doing so much damage to our nation and children. I don’t know what can be done.

I think this is due to “mainstreaming” of special needs kids. It is not working. They are too disruptive.

Also - especially at this age, the worst behaviors will rub off on everyone. So if you have one kid who starts screaming and throwing and running, often other kids will start copying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No child left behind REALLY screwed so many kids. It hasn't helped kids avoid being academically left behind. And "least restrictive environment" isn't helpful when the kid is verbally disruptive.

+1 Very rarely will non-teachers admit this. But NCLB/IDEA/FAPE ruined public schools in the US. The Federal Government and Congress like the publicity of “helping everyone” but provided no funding. So then all children suffer.

+1
IDEA and FAPE are nice concepts but until the feds actually fund these programs as they need to be they are breaking schools.

This. It could work with proper funding. There is not proper funding and it's not working. There's at least one student at our ES who is causing their classroom to be evacuated on a weekly basis, sometimes twice a week. The kids are out of the room for about 20 minutes each time it happens. That's 100 minutes of missed instruction per month for every kid in the class, including the other non disruptive classmates who have IEPs and are also legally entitled to FAPE.

What do you mean by causing the classroom to be evacuated? Is the student hurting other people? If so you need to get involved. Others have posted re how to get results - see posts up thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The worst are parents with badly behaved kids who either don't give a F or are in complete and total denial they gave birth to Satan baby, and instead promote their child as a "highly gifted" angel. puke

My friend has a “special needs” kid with ADHD. This kid has tried to choke another boy on a bus with a seat belt, stab a girl with scissors, he has shoved little kids down stairs, threw heavy things at people, regularly has meltdowns and tantrums.

He has been kicked out of all after school programs, but the public school can’t kick him out.

Yet, according to her after every incident it’s the school’s fault for not helping him manage his feelings. She is mad when he gets punished by school for singling him out.

If I was the parent of the other kids who were injured, I would be documenting and meeting with the other parents and going up the chain. The kid will be reassigned to a better placement, but the parents of the other kids need to know what is going on. My husband noticed the problem when our first grader got school avoidance and stayed home, drawing stick figure pictures of kids leaving the classroom, chairs flying, etc. It was not easy to document and fight but we did not have $$$$$ for private nor did I want to abandon our public school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Then do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher.

Yeah. I don’t believe in “inclusion”. I don’t think it works for either party.

Also, I feel it was dumped on schools to manage mental health problems of students.

It should be outsourced to medical providers. Schools should not be involved in behavior therapy, anger management, ADHD management, etc. They can barely do the one job they’re supposed to do - educate.

If Larla bites a teacher, she needs to be suspended, not counseled.

You don't even understand what inclusion is. Why do people insist on vocalizing uneducated opinions?

See, sweetheart, a teacher replied to this too — do you think they also misunderstand ‘inclusion’?

My smart, sensitive, social 3rd grader attends an excellent large public, with great teachers, and we see some of this, too. We have plenty of kids with in-denial parents who can’t accept that their angels make death threats or attack kids in the bathroom. Kids who pull this crap - I would say publicly I don’t give a good goddamned thing about WHAT causes the kind of behavior that traumatizes other humans. I DON’T. There are over 2 dozen children in every classroom with one unmanageable child! So many of these posts just insist that THEIR education is secondary to the fits and the violence and IT ISN’T. I will never ever stop confronting this detestable entitlement because THAT is what it is of parents (here obviously on this damned thread) and their apologists (ditto). We can and should confront what inclusion and access mean for everyone in a population FGS.

Sweetheart?

I’m sure her principal knows that that particular teacher’s abilities are limited. No teacher worth their salt acts like that.

+1 lol at this teacher. Couldn't handle a challenging class so their principal moved them into something more their speed.

Why should I do more work for the same money and loads of IEP meetings with parents like you? Only an idiot would take that deal. At our school, sped inclusion is all junior teachers.

At least at our parochial school, the older, more experienced teachers are always known for being the best with SN children. Sure, *like the public schools*, if there are disruptive behaviors and those behaviors can't be contained, the child is eventually asked to leave. But in the meantime, clearly the better teachers know how to deal with the variety of special needs presented (disruptive and physical behaviors, learning disabilities, emotional regulation issues, neuroatypicalities). They take that job, for even less money than you make... because they love and seek to understand all children. You shouldn't be a teacher if you don't.

Do you know how condescending this sounds, that teachers should basically work for the love of the job as opposed to making decent wages? Would you take on more challenging work at your job without additional compensation? Let’s be real there are definitely sexist connotations to this concept of teachers (predominantly women) taking on the work for the love of children. No one would talk like this about a male-dominated industry.

What emotional drivel. There are absolutely men teaching at these schools that I was thinking about when I wrote this post. But if changing the subject makes you feel better about stomping on SN kids. Cool. No amount of reason will help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is central office won't allow a child to be removed. Even if you have tons of data. Ask me how I know

For a violent kid who has hurt others? B.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Informal AMA thread. I am already shocked and saddened by the state of public elementary. This is in a wealthy suburb. There’s is a free lunch contingent but test scores are excellent and if you watch morning drop off it’s a lot of luxury vehicles.

I’m shocked at how we enroll and keep some kids who have academic and social needs we can’t possibly meet. Often a helper is assigned to one of these kids to try to keep the kid safe while 20 other 6 years old try to ignore yelling and crying and distraction to learn from their teacher. I’ve heard 7 year olds using language I’d feel guilty about even repeating! I’ve watched teacher be kicked and punched and slapped, again by 6 and 7 year olds! And the hot lunches shocked me. The other day I watched one kid eat the following for lunch: giant chocolate chip muffin, chocolate milk, sugary Dannon yogurt, low fat string cheese. This is a “balanced” meal provided by the school.

Maybe I am just out of touch, but I feel many typical parents would be surprised to hear what elementary school is like for their kids.

Absolutely tragic. The dumbing down of American children? As a single mother with zero child support, I made private school a priority.