Dax Tejera’s widow’s arrest for child endangerment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess a fire could happen (just as it can happen in a home, on a plane, etc) but that’s really rare in hotels. I think the last US hotel fire of note was in 2006.

Fire alarms happen in hotels all the time. I’ve had to evacuate a hotel recently. The siren was EARSPLITTING and it went on for 20 minutes or more. My ears rang for hours afterward. Even if the alarm was false alarm, no way would the kids sleep through it and who knows what the 2 year old would do? Try to leave (as any sane person would to try to escape the noise). There’s no way to lock a kid inside a hotel room and if the kid left the room they could get a long way before the parent could get back from a block away.

The 2-year-old is what completely breaks my heart. Can you imagine her waking up to an alarm and how terrified she would be? Even if the kids are these amazing sleepers, how can you count on that when you're in a foreign hotel room? Everyone is sorry that this dude died. But come on. This is reprehensible behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't people sometimes pick up other people's baby monitors? Upthread, someone said hotel security told her people do this all the time. So if you were a monster, maybe you'd get a baby monitor to pick up on little ones left alone in a hotel room?

From a purely logistical perspective this is a pretty silly concern. There are 138 rooms in the Yale Club and appear to be at least 5 other hotels in a 3-4 block radius of this hotel. Even if someone did hack the camera, they would have no idea what room. This would be akin to a thief in a parking garage knowing one car in 1000 was unlocked. Except in this case the cars themselves (IE, hotel rooms in fairly upscale hotels) are much harder to break into. Even if a bad actor had a hotel room skeleton key they would have to just randomly start picking rooms to open and are far more likely to accidentally open the door on multiple guests and expose themselves then find these kids.

But if they worked in the hotel and had access to enter a room in the hotel, it would be a lot easier. I've worked in the hospitality business for 20 years and would never leave my kids alone in a hotel room. There are so many people who can gain access to your room (and I hate to say this but there are some sketchy people working in hotels, high-end or not). I always use the metal bar lock when I am in my room alone. A baby can't do that.

Hey, hey hey! What metal bar lock? I always just lock all locks provided on the door - is there some secret lock I'm not noticing?

Not the PP to whom you're responding, but I feel sure that PP is referring to the metal bar you can flip across from the door to the frame. If someone pushes open the door because the locks are unlocked, they can only open it an inch or two before the bar engages. t's not a "lock" per se. It functions much like a chain you'd secure on the inside of an exterior door to your home -- rather than sliding one end of the short chain into a slide bar on the door, you flip a short metal bar across and it's secured usually by a u-shaped loop. Don't know how else to describe it. Very standard on hotel room doors everywhere. You likely have been using it and just thinking of it as another "lock" though technically it isn't a lock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess a fire could happen (just as it can happen in a home, on a plane, etc) but that’s really rare in hotels. I think the last US hotel fire of note was in 2006.

Fire alarms happen in hotels all the time. I’ve had to evacuate a hotel recently. The siren was EARSPLITTING and it went on for 20 minutes or more. My ears rang for hours afterward. Even if the alarm was false alarm, no way would the kids sleep through it and who knows what the 2 year old would do? Try to leave (as any sane person would to try to escape the noise). There’s no way to lock a kid inside a hotel room and if the kid left the room they could get a long way before the parent could get back from a block away.

+1

I think some people on this thread defending the parents have no idea how often fire alarms go off in hotels. PP is right -- it happens frequently, mostly false alarms, but good God, think how a toddler who was alone might react to it. Many a terrible potential outcome--running around looking for the parents in a strange room or suite, maybe trying even to get the infant out of the crib to "help," anything. Not to mention if the kid got out of the room and ran in panic who knows where. It's incredibly naive for people to shrug and say, an actual fire is "really rare in hotels" like one person here claimed. Real fires may be relatively rare but (1) it only takes the ONE time for your kid to be injured or killed in that rare, real fire. (2) Yes, a fire can happen in your home; but most of us should be able to exit a one-or two-level house, or most apartments other than high-rises, FAR faster than we could exit a multi-story downtown Manhattan hotel. (3) If there's a false fire alarm blaring, the outcome for a frantic child left alone could still be terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can't people sometimes pick up other people's baby monitors? Upthread, someone said hotel security told her people do this all the time. So if you were a monster, maybe you'd get a baby monitor to pick up on little ones left alone in a hotel room?

From a purely logistical perspective this is a pretty silly concern. There are 138 rooms in the Yale Club and appear to be at least 5 other hotels in a 3-4 block radius of this hotel. Even if someone did hack the camera, they would have no idea what room. This would be akin to a thief in a parking garage knowing one car in 1000 was unlocked. Except in this case the cars themselves (IE, hotel rooms in fairly upscale hotels) are much harder to break into. Even if a bad actor had a hotel room skeleton key they would have to just randomly start picking rooms to open and are far more likely to accidentally open the door on multiple guests and expose themselves then find these kids.

But if they worked in the hotel and had access to enter a room in the hotel, it would be a lot easier. I've worked in the hospitality business for 20 years and would never leave my kids alone in a hotel room. There are so many people who can gain access to your room (and I hate to say this but there are some sketchy people working in hotels, high-end or not). I always use the metal bar lock when I am in my room alone. A baby can't do that.

Yes! I am involved in the hotel industry with top hotels (5 star, Michelin starred restaurants, etc). You would be shocked at some of the behind the scenes stuff, the number of people who actually have access to your rooms, the number of times random workers will knock and go in, the number of people who get fired for crazy things. I am neurotic with my children in hotels after some of the things I have encountered. For everyone arguing about whether the baby would have an event, far more likely that a weirdo wools go in the room. Alternatively staff is obligated to report minors left alone (bc no hotel wants the liability of something happening). A hood front end staff is on top of when people come and go. You’d also be shocked at the number of guests up at weird hours bc their children who are great sleepers at home are disoriented or scared or wake up and can’t sleep at a new hotel. Finally, you’d be shocked at how often kids will exit rooms in the night when parents are asleep if they forget the chain or whatever the property offers. Young kids get up in the night and accidentally go in the hall instead of the bathroom, door shuts, parents asleep. You name it, it happens more than you’d expect. I’d be more worried about the 2 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line for me is that I would never walk out of a hotel room close the door behind me, and then walk out of the hotel knowing my infant and toddler were in a room by themselves. Never ever could I do that and feel okay about it.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

But if they worked in the hotel and had access to enter a room in the hotel, it would be a lot easier. I've worked in the hospitality business for 20 years and would never leave my kids alone in a hotel room. There are so many people who can gain access to your room (and I hate to say this but there are some sketchy people working in hotels, high-end or not). I always use the metal bar lock when I am in my room alone. A baby can't do that.

Yes! I am involved in the hotel industry with top hotels (5 star, Michelin starred restaurants, etc). You would be shocked at some of the behind the scenes stuff, the number of people who actually have access to your rooms, the number of times random workers will knock and go in, the number of people who get fired for crazy things. I am neurotic with my children in hotels after some of the things I have encountered. For everyone arguing about whether the baby would have an event, far more likely that a weirdo wools go in the room. Alternatively staff is obligated to report minors left alone (bc no hotel wants the liability of something happening). A hood front end staff is on top of when people come and go. You’d also be shocked at the number of guests up at weird hours bc their children who are great sleepers at home are disoriented or scared or wake up and can’t sleep at a new hotel. Finally, you’d be shocked at how often kids will exit rooms in the night when parents are asleep if they forget the chain or whatever the property offers. Young kids get up in the night and accidentally go in the hall instead of the bathroom, door shuts, parents asleep. You name it, it happens more than you’d expect. I’d be more worried about the 2 year old.

I'm including both of the posts above because I really hope that the "this wasn't that terrible a thing to do" posters might come back and read these posts above.

People, those with real-life, hands-on experience in the hotel industry have said it, above. Listen to them. You have NO idea how many people have easy access to your "locked" hotel room 24/7. If you would still leave your kids alone in a hotel room after reading the two posts above, you're criminally oblivious and shouldn't have kids.

[Anonymous]

5 month old & two year old left in a NYC apartment alone while husband & wife went out.

No excuse. Jail time for mommy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But if they worked in the hotel and had access to enter a room in the hotel, it would be a lot easier. I've worked in the hospitality business for 20 years and would never leave my kids alone in a hotel room. There are so many people who can gain access to your room (and I hate to say this but there are some sketchy people working in hotels, high-end or not). I always use the metal bar lock when I am in my room alone. A baby can't do that.

Yes! I am involved in the hotel industry with top hotels (5 star, Michelin starred restaurants, etc). You would be shocked at some of the behind the scenes stuff, the number of people who actually have access to your rooms, the number of times random workers will knock and go in, the number of people who get fired for crazy things. I am neurotic with my children in hotels after some of the things I have encountered. For everyone arguing about whether the baby would have an event, far more likely that a weirdo wools go in the room. Alternatively staff is obligated to report minors left alone (bc no hotel wants the liability of something happening). A hood front end staff is on top of when people come and go. You’d also be shocked at the number of guests up at weird hours bc their children who are great sleepers at home are disoriented or scared or wake up and can’t sleep at a new hotel. Finally, you’d be shocked at how often kids will exit rooms in the night when parents are asleep if they forget the chain or whatever the property offers. Young kids get up in the night and accidentally go in the hall instead of the bathroom, door shuts, parents asleep. You name it, it happens more than you’d expect. I’d be more worried about the 2 year old.

I'm including both of the posts above because I really hope that the "this wasn't that terrible a thing to do" posters might come back and read these posts above.

People, those with real-life, hands-on experience in the hotel industry have said it, above. Listen to them. You have NO idea how many people have easy access to your "locked" hotel room 24/7. If you would still leave your kids alone in a hotel room after reading the two posts above, you're criminally oblivious and shouldn't have kids.

+1 I bet these same people arguing that it's all okay wouldn't leave their expensive jewelry out in the open like they do their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess a fire could happen (just as it can happen in a home, on a plane, etc) but that’s really rare in hotels. I think the last US hotel fire of note was in 2006.

Fire alarms happen in hotels all the time. I’ve had to evacuate a hotel recently. The siren was EARSPLITTING and it went on for 20 minutes or more. My ears rang for hours afterward. Even if the alarm was false alarm, no way would the kids sleep through it and who knows what the 2 year old would do? Try to leave (as any sane person would to try to escape the noise). There’s no way to lock a kid inside a hotel room and if the kid left the room they could get a long way before the parent could get back from a block away.

+1

I think some people on this thread defending the parents have no idea how often fire alarms go off in hotels. PP is right -- it happens frequently, mostly false alarms, but good God, think how a toddler who was alone might react to it. Many a terrible potential outcome--running around looking for the parents in a strange room or suite, maybe trying even to get the infant out of the crib to "help," anything. Not to mention if the kid got out of the room and ran in panic who knows where. It's incredibly naive for people to shrug and say, an actual fire is "really rare in hotels" like one person here claimed. Real fires may be relatively rare but (1) it only takes the ONE time for your kid to be injured or killed in that rare, real fire. (2) Yes, a fire can happen in your home; but most of us should be able to exit a one-or two-level house, or most apartments other than high-rises, FAR faster than we could exit a multi-story downtown Manhattan hotel. (3) If there's a false fire alarm blaring, the outcome for a frantic child left alone could still be terrible.

I don’t think people are defending the parents, just pointing out that the actual risk of harm in this scenario is not huge. Two different things.

[Anonymous]

I wonder what the kids were sleeping in. I would worry the infant might wake and cry waking the 2 year old. 2 year old may accidentally harm the infant in attempts to sooth. Could tip over a playpen. Pick up and drop infant. Toss a blanket or pillow in smothering baby, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess a fire could happen (just as it can happen in a home, on a plane, etc) but that’s really rare in hotels. I think the last US hotel fire of note was in 2006.

Fire alarms happen in hotels all the time. I’ve had to evacuate a hotel recently. The siren was EARSPLITTING and it went on for 20 minutes or more. My ears rang for hours afterward. Even if the alarm was false alarm, no way would the kids sleep through it and who knows what the 2 year old would do? Try to leave (as any sane person would to try to escape the noise). There’s no way to lock a kid inside a hotel room and if the kid left the room they could get a long way before the parent could get back from a block away.

+1

I think some people on this thread defending the parents have no idea how often fire alarms go off in hotels. PP is right -- it happens frequently, mostly false alarms, but good God, think how a toddler who was alone might react to it. Many a terrible potential outcome--running around looking for the parents in a strange room or suite, maybe trying even to get the infant out of the crib to "help," anything. Not to mention if the kid got out of the room and ran in panic who knows where. It's incredibly naive for people to shrug and say, an actual fire is "really rare in hotels" like one person here claimed. Real fires may be relatively rare but (1) it only takes the ONE time for your kid to be injured or killed in that rare, real fire. (2) Yes, a fire can happen in your home; but most of us should be able to exit a one-or two-level house, or most apartments other than high-rises, FAR faster than we could exit a multi-story downtown Manhattan hotel. (3) If there's a false fire alarm blaring, the outcome for a frantic child left alone could still be terrible.

I don’t think people are defending the parents, just pointing out that the actual risk of harm in this scenario is not huge. Two different things.

Did you even read the post to which you're responding? Beyond the first sentence? It lays out potential ways that "the actual risk of harm" exists in these scenarios, including the scenario where there is no actual fire but a false alarm terrifies a child into behaviors that would end in harm.

Do you also think it's no big deal that two PPs with experience in the hotel industry say many more people have access to your hotel room than most guests realize? Or do you figure there's little harm in that, either?

[Anonymous]

This is sad, either way.

For all we know the husband pushed the plan, and of course, she is taking all of the heat. Typical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is sad, either way.

For all we know the husband pushed the plan, and of course, she is taking all of the heat. Typical.

For all we know, he listened to his wife when it came to matters of their children's care. Often the way it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess a fire could happen (just as it can happen in a home, on a plane, etc) but that’s really rare in hotels. I think the last US hotel fire of note was in 2006.

Fire alarms happen in hotels all the time. I’ve had to evacuate a hotel recently. The siren was EARSPLITTING and it went on for 20 minutes or more. My ears rang for hours afterward. Even if the alarm was false alarm, no way would the kids sleep through it and who knows what the 2 year old would do? Try to leave (as any sane person would to try to escape the noise). There’s no way to lock a kid inside a hotel room and if the kid left the room they could get a long way before the parent could get back from a block away.

+1

I think some people on this thread defending the parents have no idea how often fire alarms go off in hotels. PP is right -- it happens frequently, mostly false alarms, but good God, think how a toddler who was alone might react to it. Many a terrible potential outcome--running around looking for the parents in a strange room or suite, maybe trying even to get the infant out of the crib to "help," anything. Not to mention if the kid got out of the room and ran in panic who knows where. It's incredibly naive for people to shrug and say, an actual fire is "really rare in hotels" like one person here claimed. Real fires may be relatively rare but (1) it only takes the ONE time for your kid to be injured or killed in that rare, real fire. (2) Yes, a fire can happen in your home; but most of us should be able to exit a one-or two-level house, or most apartments other than high-rises, FAR faster than we could exit a multi-story downtown Manhattan hotel. (3) If there's a false fire alarm blaring, the outcome for a frantic child left alone could still be terrible.

I don’t think people are defending the parents, just pointing out that the actual risk of harm in this scenario is not huge. Two different things.

Did you even read the post to which you're responding? Beyond the first sentence? It lays out potential ways that "the actual risk of harm" exists in these scenarios, including the scenario where there is no actual fire but a false alarm terrifies a child into behaviors that would end in harm.

Do you also think it's no big deal that two PPs with experience in the hotel industry say many more people have access to your hotel room than most guests realize? Or do you figure there's little harm in that, either?

Indeed I did. And I’m rational enough to recognize that kids are at more risk riding in cars, which many of us do on a regular basis, than in either of the hypotheticals put forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is crazy! You don’t leave your young kids/babies in a hotel room by themselves so you can go out for dinner. There are no excuses for this! It was a stupid and careless parenting decision.

I wouldn't do this because I'd be stressed the whole time about something like this happening but honestly I don't think that badly of her. They were a block away from the hotel and had cameras on the kids. They were not in any danger if they were asleep and not in any more danger then they'd be in their own home on another floor.

No sorry being a block away in a whole other building while your kids are presumably several floors up is not at all the same as different part of the house. Not at all.

How quickly could you get to them in a fire? How many hotel staff have keys to that room? What if they get sick and the building elevators aren’t working? It’s just a huge amount of response time required to get back versus walking upstairs in your own house.

The only one of these things that is actually concerning is the fire. And while its concerning, there are plenty of situations where my kids are far enough away from me where if a fire spontaneously broke out I wouldn't be able to get to them. Normal situations. I don't live my life taking extreme precautions based on highly unlikely outcomes. I understand some people think this is insane but honestly they have a camera on them and I imagine they could, if running, be back to the room in 3 minutes. And the stairs work even if the elevator doesn't. No kid is harmed from crying for a few minutes. And if they get sick (suddenly?!) in such a dramatic fashion that would alert me if I was in the room, like vomiting I guess? Then that would be evident on camera. But honestly my 3/5/7 year old are DEAD TO THE WORLD when they fall asleep. I could 100% leave the house to go run an errand and have no one be the wiser and no one endangered.

I do think leaving the hotel is a little much but if they were eating in the hotel restaurant would people be saying this? I dunno I just can't get onboard with demonizing this they were close and had a camera.

What's more likely than something happening to the kids is something happening to the parents. Like they fall down and hit their head, they get hit by a car, they get detained for some reason, etc etc etc or how about they have a heart attack? What if it had just been him in charge of the kids, wife was out with her girlfriends somewhere else? Who would have known that he was monitoring the kids on his camera?

Simply not worth the risk and not that hard to make other arrangements. Well, if you really care about your kids that is.

What if he’d done this solo and had the heart attack and died?

This is also why you can never leave a child in a car alone. Not just because something might happen to them—because something might happen TO YOU.

But this is just as much a risk in a home. That’s what I don’t understand. If I was home alone watching my kids and I had a heart attack like this guy and dropped dead they would eventually wake up to find me. Or wake up and turn the stove on or the hot water or anything else. Anytime a single parent is caretaking children for many hours this is a risk. Now I agree that the risk is harder to quantify in a situation like this because people might not know where the kids are. But honestly there are horrific stories of children who are in apartments for days after a tragedy.

I’m not like, trying to weirdly go to bat for these people. They made a decision I would not have made, and likely the mom here learned this lesson in the worst and most traumatic way possible. But I think that parents are routinely vilified because we act like anything short of constant vigilance is adequate. But it’s not really healthy or practical. It’s either dangerous or it’s not. All of us want to say that a poor woman leaving her kids napping to run to the store for dinner after working a double shift should be forgiven. But these people are grossly negligent. I don’t think either party is grossly negligent. I think both correctly evaluated the actual risk and made a choice. In my opinion the risk that comes from being found out is far more potent and why I personally would not do this. Because truly the practical danger of having dinner while watching your kids on a camera 5 minutes away on foot is not significant.

No, it’s not as much risk in a home. You live there and are expected to be there, as are your children. If you don’t show up at work or them to school or daycare, someone will come look for you at your house eventually. If the mailbox runs over a neighbor may say hm: maybe an issue? I’ll text her. And getting no response, my neighbor would inquire further. And your kids are at least a little familiar with their home. Not at 2, but at 3, my kid knew which way to go looking for help outside our house, which is a thing he still doesn’t know at 8 about any hotel we stay in. The hotel situation—and ESPECIALLY the part where randoms have access to the room the kids are left in—is very and meaningfully different from your own home.