VRBO won't refund Sanibel stay for next week

[Anonymous]

https://travelnoire.com/airbnb-denies-refunds-for-displaced-guests-due-to-hurricane-ian

The more I read about this, the more likely I think it is that OP is out of luck. It sounds like in addition to Airbnb, that VRBO also has exceptions for Florida hurricane season in their rental agreement. Since VRBO has already denied OP a refund, it seems pretty likely this is the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

I am not prepared to assume that OP would happily go on vacation to Sanibel next weekend if the unit were inhabitable even though she might not have access to beaches, stores, restaurants, etc. OP doesn’t want to wait and see if the unit will be accessible on her travel days, she wants the refund now because she knows she does not want to go to Sanibel next week.

JFC. No one should be traveling to that area right now unless you are a first responder/utility worker/etc. who has been called in to help. They’re still going to be digging out bodies next week, anyone trying to go there on vacation would be a burden. Yes, OP should not have tried to proactively cancel, she should have waited for the property manager to do it or fail to provide. But geez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

Not necessarily - again if you don’t purchase the hurricane insurance with the established rental agency you are out of luck!

That is very true, but in that case they typically offer an option to purchase trip insurance through them if you don’t want to find it on your own. Obviously there are exceptions so people should always read the rental agreement no matter how they found the place, but you are more likely to have options with a rental company than renting straight from an individual owner (which is effectively what VRBO/Airbnb are).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this circumstance, OP would be happy to still go on vacation. The weather in Florida is fine this week. Unfortunately the host cannot offer a habitable property. OP isn't canceling, the host is canceling. The host should have hurricane insurance that includes coverage for lost revenue. OP should get a refund.

This is different from 2020 where the properties were habitable but guests were unable or choosing not to travel.

I am not prepared to assume that OP would happily go on vacation to Sanibel next weekend if the unit were inhabitable even though she might not have access to beaches, stores, restaurants, etc. OP doesn’t want to wait and see if the unit will be accessible on her travel days, she wants the refund now because she knows she does not want to go to Sanibel next week.

JFC. No one should be traveling to that area right now unless you are a first responder/utility worker/etc. who has been called in to help. They’re still going to be digging out bodies next week, anyone trying to go there on vacation would be a burden. Yes, OP should not have tried to proactively cancel, she should have waited for the property manager to do it or fail to provide. But geez.

So you’re saying you agree with the previous poster that OP would happily go to Sanibel next week if allowed to do so? Or are you derailing this tangent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

Not necessarily - again if you don’t purchase the hurricane insurance with the established rental agency you are out of luck!

That is very true, but in that case they typically offer an option to purchase trip insurance through them if you don’t want to find it on your own. Obviously there are exceptions so people should always read the rental agreement no matter how they found the place, but you are more likely to have options with a rental company than renting straight from an individual owner (which is effectively what VRBO/Airbnb are).

You also need to be very careful about what the hurricane insurance covers- sometimes it’s just the days where there is a mandatory evacuation, not two weeks later when the WEATHER is fine but the property/services might not be.

[Anonymous]

I can't imagine going down there in the next 6 months. The water and beaches are a mess. Article in the WP about it today.
Sorry you are losing $ on the rental, but you have to read rental contracts. VRBO/AIRBNB are pretty clear about their policies when you book. I always get insurance with them unless it is a small enough amount that I don't mind losing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

So you’re saying if the house wasn’t inhabitable for other reasons, then the renter would be entitled to a refund? That makes no sense.

Sure it makes sense if hurricanes are specifically excluded, which it sounds like they are.

What's the time limit on this? Some VRBO and AirBnb reservations don't allow for cancelations after 24-36 hours. If a house was washed away in this hurricane and someone booked for next June, does the owner still keep the money if there is literally no house available? What if the house was damaged but the owner just can't be bothered to make needed repairs for 6 months because they get to keep all the rental fees anyways? That can't be right. The owner has an obligation to live up to their end of an agreement and provide a rental unit. It's not a blank check to cite a hurricane that happened in the past and keep the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

Not necessarily - again if you don’t purchase the hurricane insurance with the established rental agency you are out of luck!

That is very true, but in that case they typically offer an option to purchase trip insurance through them if you don’t want to find it on your own. Obviously there are exceptions so people should always read the rental agreement no matter how they found the place, but you are more likely to have options with a rental company than renting straight from an individual owner (which is effectively what VRBO/Airbnb are).

You also need to be very careful about what the hurricane insurance covers- sometimes it’s just the days where there is a mandatory evacuation, not two weeks later when the WEATHER is fine but the property/services might not be.

Agreed. Trip insurance is another area where you get what you pay for. If you go really cheap, your coverage will probably be very limited. It usually isn’t that much more expensive relative to the cost of the trip to get cancel anytime for any reason trip insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

Not necessarily - again if you don’t purchase the hurricane insurance with the established rental agency you are out of luck!

That is very true, but in that case they typically offer an option to purchase trip insurance through them if you don’t want to find it on your own. Obviously there are exceptions so people should always read the rental agreement no matter how they found the place, but you are more likely to have options with a rental company than renting straight from an individual owner (which is effectively what VRBO/Airbnb are).

You also need to be very careful about what the hurricane insurance covers- sometimes it’s just the days where there is a mandatory evacuation, not two weeks later when the WEATHER is fine but the property/services might not be.

+1. I can tell you right now that not all policies will cover OP’s situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

Not necessarily - again if you don’t purchase the hurricane insurance with the established rental agency you are out of luck!

That is very true, but in that case they typically offer an option to purchase trip insurance through them if you don’t want to find it on your own. Obviously there are exceptions so people should always read the rental agreement no matter how they found the place, but you are more likely to have options with a rental company than renting straight from an individual owner (which is effectively what VRBO/Airbnb are).

You also need to be very careful about what the hurricane insurance covers- sometimes it’s just the days where there is a mandatory evacuation, not two weeks later when the WEATHER is fine but the property/services might not be.

+1. I can tell you right now that not all policies will cover OP’s situation.

Thats because the hosts should refunds OPs money and have their own insurance coverage to protect against lost revenue due to hurricane repairs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

So you’re saying if the house wasn’t inhabitable for other reasons, then the renter would be entitled to a refund? That makes no sense.

Sure it makes sense if hurricanes are specifically excluded, which it sounds like they are.

What's the time limit on this? Some VRBO and AirBnb reservations don't allow for cancelations after 24-36 hours. If a house was washed away in this hurricane and someone booked for next June, does the owner still keep the money if there is literally no house available? What if the house was damaged but the owner just can't be bothered to make needed repairs for 6 months because they get to keep all the rental fees anyways? That can't be right. The owner has an obligation to live up to their end of an agreement and provide a rental unit. It's not a blank check to cite a hurricane that happened in the past and keep the money.

Yeah I was wondering this too. We are actually about to book a house in the Caribbean for next June to make sure we get the week we want- but of course hurricane season is not over yet. I almost always only pick properties with a flexible cancellation policy, and then my travel insurance through my credit card would cover last minute cancellations due to illness and such. But so many listed properties only let you cancel for 48hr, and this year’s hurricane season is not over yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is from the article OP linked above in first post.

"However, should a host not cancel first, the situation becomes more complex, particularly with Airbnb, given its cancellation policy specifically excludes the annual storm season in Florida. Airbnb says that it offers refunds for “events beyond one’s control”, including some extreme weather events and natural disasters such as volcanic eruptions, but despite this, the company deems tropical hurricanes and storms in the state between June and November to be “foreseeable” and its cancellation policy does not result in refunds under those circumstances.

Meanwhile, a Vrbo spokeswoman told The New York Times that “natural disasters, such as hurricanes or wildfires, do not override the cancellation policy set by the host and agreed to by the guest when they book”.

BUT this isn't a cancellation due to a hurricane. It is a cancellation because the condo is not habitable/destroyed/island is not available to non-owners. Definitely dispute with the credit card, airbnb are going to lose.

DP. You don’t know that the unit is uninhabitable, and you don’t know that it won’t be available to non-visitors next week. But all that aside, all of those issue absolutely do arise out of a hurricane and so very likely does fall within the scope of this policy.

So you’re saying if the house wasn’t inhabitable for other reasons, then the renter would be entitled to a refund? That makes no sense.

Sure it makes sense if hurricanes are specifically excluded, which it sounds like they are.

What's the time limit on this? Some VRBO and AirBnb reservations don't allow for cancelations after 24-36 hours. If a house was washed away in this hurricane and someone booked for next June, does the owner still keep the money if there is literally no house available? What if the house was damaged but the owner just can't be bothered to make needed repairs for 6 months because they get to keep all the rental fees anyways? That can't be right. The owner has an obligation to live up to their end of an agreement and provide a rental unit. It's not a blank check to cite a hurricane that happened in the past and keep the money.

I can’t speak to your hypothetical scenario in which someone booked a VRBO nine months in advance and there was a hurricane in the interim, but right now it seems like not all Ian cancellations are being refunded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

Not necessarily - again if you don’t purchase the hurricane insurance with the established rental agency you are out of luck!

That is very true, but in that case they typically offer an option to purchase trip insurance through them if you don’t want to find it on your own. Obviously there are exceptions so people should always read the rental agreement no matter how they found the place, but you are more likely to have options with a rental company than renting straight from an individual owner (which is effectively what VRBO/Airbnb are).

You also need to be very careful about what the hurricane insurance covers- sometimes it’s just the days where there is a mandatory evacuation, not two weeks later when the WEATHER is fine but the property/services might not be.

Agreed. Trip insurance is another area where you get what you pay for. If you go really cheap, your coverage will probably be very limited. It usually isn’t that much more expensive relative to the cost of the trip to get cancel anytime for any reason trip insurance.

This- you need a cancel for any reason policy, NOT a hurricane policy, because in many cases that is unlikely to cover the entire cleanup/recovery period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that maybe legally OP is out the $. However, it’s just wrong for the owner to not refund the money given the condo is uninhabitable. It’s unethical and bad karma.

No, it isn’t. People get what they pay for in this context. People generally turn to VRBO or AirBNB when they don’t want to pay higher rates to rent a house through a rental company or pay for a hotel room/suite. But as the NYT article posted a page or two back shows, those bargains come with drawbacks. People who paid for hotels or rented through established rental agencies are generally getting refunds or credits for a future stay, because that’s one of the benefits you get when you pay more for these services/facilities. If you go the discount route *and* you go even cheaper by not buying trip insurance, you are getting the bargain you chose if you aren’t entitled to a refund, and there is nothing unethical about holding someone to their agreements.

Not necessarily - again if you don’t purchase the hurricane insurance with the established rental agency you are out of luck!

That is very true, but in that case they typically offer an option to purchase trip insurance through them if you don’t want to find it on your own. Obviously there are exceptions so people should always read the rental agreement no matter how they found the place, but you are more likely to have options with a rental company than renting straight from an individual owner (which is effectively what VRBO/Airbnb are).

You also need to be very careful about what the hurricane insurance covers- sometimes it’s just the days where there is a mandatory evacuation, not two weeks later when the WEATHER is fine but the property/services might not be.

+1. I can tell you right now that not all policies will cover OP’s situation.

Thats because the hosts should refunds OPs money and have their own insurance coverage to protect against lost revenue due to hurricane repairs.

Your feelings on the matter are irrelevant and don't align with the facts.

[Anonymous]

We rented a VRBO house a few years back and arrived to find it had no drinkable water. We got our money back, though it took a while.
"Hurricane" provisions don't matter, nor does force majeure. You have a contract saying you have access to a facility with certain things in it: each property has a list when you book: air conditioning, for instance. If the property is no longer in the same condition as when you booked, you clearly have a case for breach of contract.
Force the owner to confirm that the property is exactly as advertised. It would be up to you to prove that it's not the case but if they lie, it's fraud.